India to Hold Complete IPR for Its Domestically Developed 120kN Jet Engine in Collaboration with Safran

In a landmark development for its aerospace and defence sector, India is moving forward with a plan to develop a new-generation jet engine with 100% Intellectual Property Rights (IPR).

The powerful 120kN thrust class engine will be developed in collaboration with French aerospace giant Safran, marking a pivotal step in India’s quest for self-reliance in critical military technology.

The new engine, capable of generating approximately 12 tons of thrust, is being developed primarily to power India's future fleet of advanced fighter aircraft.

It is slated to be the powerplant for the Mk2 version of the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), the nation’s fifth-generation stealth fighter currently under development.

Mastering jet engine manufacturing is considered a major technological achievement, as it is a highly complex and guarded field globally.

A crucial aspect of this collaboration is that India will retain full ownership and control over the engine's design, manufacturing technology, and future upgrades.

This complete IPR ensures that the nation will not be dependent on foreign nations for servicing, maintenance, or modifications, thereby strengthening national security. This move also positions India to potentially export advanced aeronautical systems in the future.

The project has received official government sanction, indicating firm financial and political backing. The development will be spearheaded by India’s Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), with its Bengaluru-based Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) leading the design efforts.

The partnership with Safran is expected to involve a complete transfer of technology, enabling Indian engineers to absorb and build upon the sophisticated knowledge required.

Beyond the design phase, the initiative aims to cultivate a comprehensive and self-sufficient aerospace ecosystem within the country. The program is structured to establish a robust domestic supply chain, from the indigenous development of advanced materials like high-temperature alloys to building manufacturing capabilities among Indian private and public sector companies.

Furthermore, the plan includes upgrading and establishing state-of-the-art testing and certification facilities to ensure the engine meets rigorous international standards for safety and performance.

 

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[Mayank393]

Well, do you think the West will give India all the know-how of one of the most sophisticated technologies in the world—jet engines?

 

[Snowstrike]

@Mayank393 Do you realize they dont have it themselves? Safran and the GTRE are gonna take ~10 years to complete the engine.

 

[Snowstrike]

To everyone looking at this point: I'd like to draw your attention to the fact that at the start of bidding, Safran's offer was only 50% IPR to India. The remaining 50% stays in Paris. Now, from the beginning, RR's offer remained unchanged: 100% IPR to India. Only when it became clear that a 50% IPR offer from Safran would be impossible to accept from the Indian side, and certain reports surfaced alleging that RR had become the frontrunner, did Safran match the 100% IPR. Its up to the MoD whether to trust a supplier like that- the same one which attempted to fleece them back during the Kaveri revival. This is the gist of it: M88 core injected into kaveri. ToT + IPR? forget about it. Defeating the entire purpose of an 'indigenous' engine. Hence, it didnt go through. Now, onto the specifications for Safran's offer now: an M88-derived core, scaled up, without VCE. They are offering a 3 year faster timeline than RR though. On the other hand, Rolls-Royce. They are offering a clean-sheet, 6th gen, with VCE, albeit with a 3 year slower timeline than Safran. Its up to the MoD to decide whether they will go after a 3 year faster timeline NOW, risking obsolescence in the near future by VCE engines which are going pop up, OR accept a 3 year slower timeline, BUT retain relevancy well into the 2040s. Both offers are designed to be scalable, however: Safran's 4th gen core has some fundamental design constraints, making it not possible to scale it much- its already being stretched thin. RR's offer is designed from the ground up to be scalable- upto 130-140kn. Anyway, this was just my understanding and insight of the situation- I'd like to see what everyone else thinks.

 

[P2S2]

To everyone looking at this point: I'd like to draw your attention to the fact that at the start of bidding, Safran's offer was only 50% IPR to India. The remaining 50% stays in Paris. Now, from the beginning, RR's offer remained unchanged: 100% IPR to India. Only when it became clear that a 50% IPR offer from Safran would be impossible to accept from the Indian side, and certain reports surfaced alleging that RR had become the frontrunner, did Safran match the 100% IPR. Its up to the MoD whether to trust a supplier like that- the same one which attempted to fleece them back during the Kaveri revival. This is the gist of it: M88 core injected into kaveri. ToT + IPR? forget about it. Defeating the entire purpose of an 'indigenous' engine. Hence, it didnt go through. Now, onto the specifications for Safran's offer now: an M88-derived core, scaled up, without VCE. They are offering a 3 year faster timeline than RR though. On the other hand, Rolls-Royce. They are offering a clean-sheet, 6th gen, with VCE, albeit with a 3 year slower timeline than Safran. Its up to the MoD to decide whether they will go after a 3 year faster timeline NOW, risking obsolescence in the near future by VCE engines which are going pop up, OR accept a 3 year slower timeline, BUT retain relevancy well into the 2040s. Both offers are designed to be scalable, however: Safran's 4th gen core has some fundamental design constraints, making it not possible to scale it much- its already being stretched thin. RR's offer is designed from the ground up to be scalable- upto 130-140kn. Anyway, this was just my understanding and insight of the situation- I'd like to see what everyone else thinks.

We appreciate your comprehension and thank you for it. This is one desi who speaks facts.
My thinking is similar to this. RR is our heritage. France badly requires our assistance in keeping Francopia alive. Pondicherry has enriched us and we should back French worldwide interests as they do provide better living standards for all indigenous peoples in far flung locations. Tahiti New Calidonia are excellent supporting infrastructure. France needs our assistance in the Indian ocean. We need the European market. In the face of American imperialism France has accepted British brotherhood. We own England. We are the insurance required by humanity. If we can work harder and bring in more money we could allow MOD to commission both. If the US refuses logic and insists on weakening India then we should allow them to rot in their own vomit. The strong aren't afraid of anything.

 

[indigenous_29]

@Snowstrike : RR's offer is clearly better. The reason why MoD went with Safran is possibly because France offers India greater sovereignty. Unlike the UK, its collaboration is free from external constraints(Uncle Sam and co.), enabling true self-reliance. India has consistently preferred France as a long-standing strategic defense partner for decades.

With Safran’s proven engine expertise and GTRE’s deep local knowledge, the co-development cycle can be significantly shortened too for this kind of an engine. By leveraging parallel design, testing, and production-readiness, the engine could realistically be completed within 7-8 years.

VCE engines offer long-term performance advantages (better fuel efficiency, range, and thrust variability), they are high-risk and unproven for near-term fighter needs. In contrast, Safran’s approach of enhancing a conventional 120 kN class turbofan is more reliable, quicker, and aligned with India’s timelines for AMCA

 

[Snowstrike]

@Snowstrike : RR's offer is clearly better. The reason why MoD went with Safran is possibly because France offers India greater sovereignty. Unlike the UK, its collaboration is free from external constraints(Uncle Sam and co.), enabling true self-reliance. India has consistently preferred France as a long-standing strategic defense partner for decades.

With Safran’s proven engine expertise and GTRE’s deep local knowledge, the co-development cycle can be significantly shortened too for this kind of an engine. By leveraging parallel design, testing, and production-readiness, the engine could realistically be completed within 7-8 years.

VCE engines offer long-term performance advantages (better fuel efficiency, range, and thrust variability), they are high-risk and unproven for near-term fighter needs. In contrast, Safran’s approach of enhancing a conventional 120 kN class turbofan is more reliable, quicker, and aligned with India’s timelines for AMCA

Well, you drive home a good point. However, I'd like to point out that the timeline for Safran's engine is only ~3 years shorter than RR's, at ~10 years from start to finish. Anything below that is unrealistic. Rolls-Royce's offer doesnt include sourcing critical components from the USA- significantly mitigating the risk of Uncle Sam. The engine is effectively insulated from their pressure. And as for the point you made about Safran's offer being more reliable: your right. No questions there. However, I'd like to bring the point of view where long term strategic considerations hold more weightage: Safran's offer entails a 4th gen core, the M88. Initially developed in the 1980s, it is it undoubtedly a reliable engine. However, it is FUNDAMENTALLY constrained by the very same architecture- which does not allow for it to be very scalable/modular at all. The forgoing of VCE may prove to be a disastrous oversight, as all of the worlds major engine manufacturers are rapidly moving towards it. China, the US, Russia, UK, France. Safran itself is developing a clean-sheet 6th gen WITH VCE for the FCAS, while offering India what seems like a 'downgraded export package' while initially trying to hold 50% IPR for that too. I believe, for the short gain of 3 years, India should NOT sacrifice the next 30. RR's offer is built from the ground up to be scalable. Modular. Adaptable. And of course, with VCE included from the very beginning, which RR has more experience with (think, 2000s ACE project with GE, their own research after too.). India is going to once again be stuck a generation BEHIND the rest of the world, as a consequence of the same 'Short termism.' Your insights are deeply appreciated, and I'm glad to see your viewpoint too. Plus, for a 5th generation fighter: the AMCA mk2, being ON-TIME is extremely unlikely. The F-35 program endured several delays and and cost overruns, the Su-57 (not a viable 5th gen, but still included.), the J20 (unreliable engines, driving home the point of requiring a future-proof solution). Assuming that the AMCA mk2 itself will be ready in those 10 years may be a highly skewed idea. Thanks for reading!

 

[Snowstrike]

We appreciate your comprehension and thank you for it. This is one desi who speaks facts.
My thinking is similar to this. RR is our heritage. France badly requires our assistance in keeping Francopia alive. Pondicherry has enriched us and we should back French worldwide interests as they do provide better living standards for all indigenous peoples in far flung locations. Tahiti New Calidonia are excellent supporting infrastructure. France needs our assistance in the Indian ocean. We need the European market. In the face of American imperialism France has accepted British brotherhood. We own England. We are the insurance required by humanity. If we can work harder and bring in more money we could allow MOD to commission both. If the US refuses logic and insists on weakening India then we should allow them to rot in their own vomit. The strong aren't afraid of anything.

Haha, thanks! I'm American but that doesnt make a difference. However, we dont 'own' the UK. What they offer is highly advanced technology (RR's offer), apart from the FTA, and growing ties. France, while having been supportive of India in its history, and not imposing sanctions in 1998- has been an unreliable partner. I understand many people will not agree with this viewpoint. But I'm here to provide it anyway. Rafale deal, 2016. 50% offsets. Years later? A CAG audit found they had NOT fulfilled their commitments. Scorpene, 2005. ToT took much longer than expected, and was not as beneficial as initially thought. The salt on the wound is the fact that India was charged extra because of 'teething issues'. Kaveri revival too. Dropping in a French core, while not having ANY ToT or IP for it defeats the entire purpose of the engine. The worst part? up until then, the total development cost was 300mil- while Safran were demanded over $1b+. France, for all its 'reliability', has been consistently attempting to fleece/ get the most out of any deal. But this does not mean they arent worth being partners with- I acknowledge that Indo-French relations have been warm, and we have benefitted from the partnership- I just make the point that in this instance, it is not worth it.

 

[P2S2]

Haha, thanks! I'm American but that doesnt make a difference. However, we dont 'own' the UK. What they offer is highly advanced technology (RR's offer), apart from the FTA, and growing ties. France, while having been supportive of India in its history, and not imposing sanctions in 1998- has been an unreliable partner. I understand many people will not agree with this viewpoint. But I'm here to provide it anyway. Rafale deal, 2016. 50% offsets. Years later? A CAG audit found they had NOT fulfilled their commitments. Scorpene, 2005. ToT took much longer than expected, and was not as beneficial as initially thought. The salt on the wound is the fact that India was charged extra because of 'teething issues'. Kaveri revival too. Dropping in a French core, while not having ANY ToT or IP for it defeats the entire purpose of the engine. The worst part? up until then, the total development cost was 300mil- while Safran were demanded over $1b+. France, for all its 'reliability', has been consistently attempting to fleece/ get the most out of any deal. But this does not mean they arent worth being partners with- I acknowledge that Indo-French relations have been warm, and we have benefitted from the partnership- I just make the point that in this instance, it is not worth it.

This time they need us more than previously. Geopolitics has brought Francophone to it's knees even Azerbaijan challenging them. Keeping the status quo for another two hundred years seems possible with India's rise.