India to Hold Complete IPR for Its Domestically Developed 120kN Jet Engine in Collaboration with Safran

In a landmark development for its aerospace and defence sector, India is moving forward with a plan to develop a new-generation jet engine with 100% Intellectual Property Rights (IPR).

The powerful 120kN thrust class engine will be developed in collaboration with French aerospace giant Safran, marking a pivotal step in India’s quest for self-reliance in critical military technology.

The new engine, capable of generating approximately 12 tons of thrust, is being developed primarily to power India's future fleet of advanced fighter aircraft.

It is slated to be the powerplant for the Mk2 version of the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), the nation’s fifth-generation stealth fighter currently under development.

Mastering jet engine manufacturing is considered a major technological achievement, as it is a highly complex and guarded field globally.

A crucial aspect of this collaboration is that India will retain full ownership and control over the engine's design, manufacturing technology, and future upgrades.

This complete IPR ensures that the nation will not be dependent on foreign nations for servicing, maintenance, or modifications, thereby strengthening national security. This move also positions India to potentially export advanced aeronautical systems in the future.

The project has received official government sanction, indicating firm financial and political backing. The development will be spearheaded by India’s Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), with its Bengaluru-based Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) leading the design efforts.

The partnership with Safran is expected to involve a complete transfer of technology, enabling Indian engineers to absorb and build upon the sophisticated knowledge required.

Beyond the design phase, the initiative aims to cultivate a comprehensive and self-sufficient aerospace ecosystem within the country. The program is structured to establish a robust domestic supply chain, from the indigenous development of advanced materials like high-temperature alloys to building manufacturing capabilities among Indian private and public sector companies.

Furthermore, the plan includes upgrading and establishing state-of-the-art testing and certification facilities to ensure the engine meets rigorous international standards for safety and performance.

 

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[智子 伊瀬]

The Rolls-Royce proposal for Turkey’s KAAN program did not collapse because Ankara “rejected” it outright, but because of disagreements over intellectual property rights. Rolls-Royce and Kale Group had set up a joint venture, but Turkey insisted on full access to the core technologies- something no engine OEM in the world agrees to. When no compromise was reached, the program stalled. In the meantime, Turkey has relied on the GE F110, built under license by TEI, for KAAN prototypes and the early production blocks. This reliance shows that Turkey does not yet have a mature indigenous engine solution. Motor Sich’s involvement for the APU illustrates further that even secondary systems are being sourced externally. TEI has initiated work on the TF6000/TF10000 engines, but these are still at the test stage and years away from being certified for fighter use. In contrast, Rolls-Royce, Safran, and MTU already bring decades of experience producing operational, combat-proven engines. The reality is that Turkey’s indigenous engine is still an aspiration, not an available product, and KAAN remains dependent on foreign propulsion in the near to medium term.

And regarding your toxicity- I suggest you please dont relegate yourself to the low-level of the 'fringe groups' of users who believe in dehumanizing name-calling. Hold yourself to a higher standard- and keep the conversation about DEFENSE, instead of personal attacks. What ever happened to civil conversations?

Precisely because Ankara refused. RR agreed to technology transfer back in 2022, but was simply rejected. Turkey said almost from the very beginning that the prototypes and Block 1 would have an imported engine (hinting at the F110) and that the national engine would be with Block 2, which is planned for 2030-2032. And yes, Turkey somehow copes with the development of a loyal wingman alone, without conditional Germany.

The TF-6000 has successfully passed more than 60 tests, and progress is also evident in the TF-10000 and TF-35000 programs. The Turks would be a much more useful partner than Germany if it weren't for politics🤣

As for Ukraine's participation, it is obvious that they were given a lower priority task, and that Ukraine continues to successfully sell Soviet technology for a small price.

 

[Snowstrike]

Precisely because Ankara refused. RR agreed to technology transfer back in 2022, but was simply rejected. Turkey said almost from the very beginning that the prototypes and Block 1 would have an imported engine (hinting at the F110) and that the national engine would be with Block 2, which is planned for 2030-2032. And yes, Turkey somehow copes with the development of a loyal wingman alone, without conditional Germany.

The TF-6000 has successfully passed more than 60 tests, and progress is also evident in the TF-10000 and TF-35000 programs. The Turks would be a much more useful partner than Germany if it weren't for politics🤣

As for Ukraine's participation, it is obvious that they were given a lower priority task, and that Ukraine continues to successfully sell Soviet technology for a small price.
Oh, here we go again with the fairytales. First, stop trying to spin Turkey’s engine saga as some glorious independence story. The TF6000? Sixty “tests” means absolutely nothing when it’s still a baby turbofan for drones and trainers, not a cutting-edge fighter engine. The TF10000 and TF35000? They exist mostly as CGI renders and PowerPoint slides — zero real prototypes, zero integration, zero proven performance. Compare that to MTU, which literally co-designed the EJ200 hot section — the most thermally stressed and technologically advanced part of the Typhoon’s engine. That isn’t “30% assembly,” that’s mastery of the hardest bit. Without Germany, the EJ200 would not exist.


Meanwhile, you glorify Turkey’s “loyal wingman” as if it’s proof of self-reliance. Funny how that program is still years behind Europe’s nEUROn, which already flew in 2012 thanks to a multinational team — Dassault, Saab, Alenia, HAI, RUAG, EADS-CASA. You know, actual results, not promotional videos.


And this nonsense about Turkey being a “better partner than Germany”? Please. Germany is the industrial backbone of Europe — engine cores, avionics, manufacturing depth, funding. Without them, FCAS collapses into another Mirage F1-style solo disaster: an expensive, irrelevant dead-end. You can mock politics all you like, but Germany brings actual irreplaceable technology. Turkey, at best, brings an aspirational PowerPoint and a dependence on U.S. F110s.


And as for Ukraine — sneering at them for “selling Soviet tech” is a joke. Motor Sich is one of the few companies with deep turbomachinery know-how in ex-USSR space, and their cooperation is valued globally (China, Turkey itself, even Europe). To dismiss them just shows your ignorance.


In short: stop worshipping unproven Tu

Precisely because Ankara refused. RR agreed to technology transfer back in 2022, but was simply rejected. Turkey said almost from the very beginning that the prototypes and Block 1 would have an imported engine (hinting at the F110) and that the national engine would be with Block 2, which is planned for 2030-2032. And yes, Turkey somehow copes with the development of a loyal wingman alone, without conditional Germany.

The TF-6000 has successfully passed more than 60 tests, and progress is also evident in the TF-10000 and TF-35000 programs. The Turks would be a much more useful partner than Germany if it weren't for politics🤣

As for Ukraine's participation, it is obvious that they were given a lower priority task, and that Ukraine continues to successfully sell Soviet technology for a small price.

Oh, here we go again with the fairytales. Turkey demanded full IP + ToT, something which RR simply couldnt agree to- along with the fact that Turkey wanted to involve a Qatari-Turkish company. Hence, they got kicked to the curb, and the deal fell through. Trying to spin Turkey’s engine saga as some glorious independence story is pointless. The TF6000? Sixty “tests” means absolutely nothing when it’s still a baby turbofan for drones and trainers, not a cutting-edge fighter engine. The TF10000 and TF35000? They exist mostly as CGI renders and PowerPoint slides- zero real prototypes, zero integration, zero proven performance. Compare that to MTU, which literally co-designed the EJ200, including its cold section and DECMU- some of the most stressed and technologically advanced parts of the Typhoon’s engine. That isn’t “30% assembly,” that’s mastery of the hardest bit. Without Germany, the EJ200 would not exist.

Meanwhile, you glorify Turkey’s “loyal wingman” as if it’s proof of self-reliance. Funny how that program is still years behind Europe’s nEUROn, which already flew in 2012 thanks to a multinational team — Dassault, Saab, Alenia, HAI, RUAG, EADS-CASA. You know, actual results, not promotional videos.

And this nonsense about Turkey being a “better partner than Germany”? Please. Germany is the industrial backbone of Europe- engine cores, avionics, manufacturing depth, funding. Without them, FCAS collapses into another Mirage III V solo disaster: an expensive, irrelevant dead-end. You can mock politics all you like, but Germany brings actual irreplaceable technology. Turkey, at best, brings an aspirational PowerPoint and a dependence on U.S. F110s.

And as for Ukraine- sneering at them for “selling Soviet tech” is a joke. Motor Sich is one of the few companies with deep turbomachinery know-how in ex-USSR space, and their cooperation is valued globally (China, Turkey itself, even Europe). To dismiss them just shows your ignorance.

In short: stop worshipping unproven Turkish slides while ignoring decades of proven German and European achievements. Without Germany, there is no FCAS.

At this point, I implore you to stop being toxic to certain nations or groups of people on defense.in- it is disgraceful behavior which needs to end.

 

[智子 伊瀬]

Oh, here we go again with the fairytales. Turkey demanded full IP + ToT, something which RR simply couldnt agree to- along with the fact that Turkey wanted to involve a Qatari-Turkish company. Hence, they got kicked to the curb, and the deal fell through. Trying to spin Turkey’s engine saga as some glorious independence story is pointless. The TF6000? Sixty “tests” means absolutely nothing when it’s still a baby turbofan for drones and trainers, not a cutting-edge fighter engine. The TF10000 and TF35000? They exist mostly as CGI renders and PowerPoint slides- zero real prototypes, zero integration, zero proven performance. Compare that to MTU, which literally co-designed the EJ200, including its cold section and DECMU- some of the most stressed and technologically advanced parts of the Typhoon’s engine. That isn’t “30% assembly,” that’s mastery of the hardest bit. Without Germany, the EJ200 would not exist.

Meanwhile, you glorify Turkey’s “loyal wingman” as if it’s proof of self-reliance. Funny how that program is still years behind Europe’s nEUROn, which already flew in 2012 thanks to a multinational team — Dassault, Saab, Alenia, HAI, RUAG, EADS-CASA. You know, actual results, not promotional videos.

And this nonsense about Turkey being a “better partner than Germany”? Please. Germany is the industrial backbone of Europe- engine cores, avionics, manufacturing depth, funding. Without them, FCAS collapses into another Mirage III V solo disaster: an expensive, irrelevant dead-end. You can mock politics all you like, but Germany brings actual irreplaceable technology. Turkey, at best, brings an aspirational PowerPoint and a dependence on U.S. F110s.

And as for Ukraine- sneering at them for “selling Soviet tech” is a joke. Motor Sich is one of the few companies with deep turbomachinery know-how in ex-USSR space, and their cooperation is valued globally (China, Turkey itself, even Europe). To dismiss them just shows your ignorance.

In short: stop worshipping unproven Turkish slides while ignoring decades of proven German and European achievements. Without Germany, there is no FCAS.

At this point, I implore you to stop being toxic to certain nations or groups of people on defense.in- it is disgraceful behavior which needs to end.

One of the project's curators, Ismail Demir, said back in 2022 that the RR problems had been solved. However, RR and Kale's proposal was rejected when a consortium of only Turkish companies won in 2024. Qatar no longer has a stake in TRMotor, it is entirely owned by Turkey. The TF-10000 is in an advanced stage and is preparing to build a full-fledged prototype, work on creating new materials and blades for the TF-35000 has also yielded noticeable results. Yes, it looks like the Turks will still become a full-fledged aviation power in the 30s, they can be congratulated on their success and perseverance. And a bonus - they have mastered the development and testing of their turboshaft engine.

Germany must give guarantees that it will not hinder the export of NGF under any government, refusal to integrate American nuclear bombs (as compensation, French bombs on German territory can be singled out), at least this. Merz looks smarter than Merkel and Scholz, it is easier to negotiate with him. On the one hand, it may be necessary to use that trick with new participants, on the other hand, Trappier must learn to keep his mouth shut and not rave about 80%.

I have nothing against Ukraine, but they sell their technology to anyone, China thanks to them made a sharp technological leap in the field of engine building, which is now harming Ukraine itself (China supplies marine engines for the Russian fleet). They also helped the Turks master some technologies. They have a lot of experience in creating transport aircraft, engines for missiles and training aircraft, but there are big problems with powerful engines for fighters and general technological decline due to the collapse of the USSR and the beginning of the war. The Ukrainians would be useful in developing a replacement for the Alpha Jet or A400M, but I just don’t see their role for FCAS.

 

[Snowstrike]

One of the project's curators, Ismail Demir, said back in 2022 that the RR problems had been solved. However, RR and Kale's proposal was rejected when a consortium of only Turkish companies won in 2024. Qatar no longer has a stake in TRMotor, it is entirely owned by Turkey. The TF-10000 is in an advanced stage and is preparing to build a full-fledged prototype, work on creating new materials and blades for the TF-35000 has also yielded noticeable results. Yes, it looks like the Turks will still become a full-fledged aviation power in the 30s, they can be congratulated on their success and perseverance. And a bonus - they have mastered the development and testing of their turboshaft engine.

Germany must give guarantees that it will not hinder the export of NGF under any government, refusal to integrate American nuclear bombs (as compensation, French bombs on German territory can be singled out), at least this. Merz looks smarter than Merkel and Scholz, it is easier to negotiate with him. On the one hand, it may be necessary to use that trick with new participants, on the other hand, Trappier must learn to keep his mouth shut and not rave about 80%.

I have nothing against Ukraine, but they sell their technology to anyone, China thanks to them made a sharp technological leap in the field of engine building, which is now harming Ukraine itself (China supplies marine engines for the Russian fleet). They also helped the Turks master some technologies. They have a lot of experience in creating transport aircraft, engines for missiles and training aircraft, but there are big problems with powerful engines for fighters and general technological decline due to the collapse of the USSR and the beginning of the war. The Ukrainians would be useful in developing a replacement for the Alpha Jet or A400M, but I just don’t see their role for FCAS.

Wrong again. RR pulled out of the engine program with Turkey because of IP and ToT disagreements- like I said earlier, the turks wanted 100% IP to the engine, which was not acceptable to RR- and they wanted to involve BCM, NOT TRmotor like you think. BCM is co-owned by Turkey and Qatar, and RR has concerns over IP or ToT leaks and wanted leverage. The TF-10000 is nowhere near 'advanced stage'.

They’ve pushed the TF-10000 and talked up the TF-35000- but calling that “advanced” is marketing spin. What exists right now are component tests and demonstrators, not a flight-ready prototype engine. Designing turbine blades and “new materials” is the baseline requirement for any serious fighter engine program, not some revolutionary leap. You don’t join the big leagues because you’ve built a turboshaft. Until Turkey runs a reliable high-thrust turbofan in an actual testbed or airframe, they are not close to being an engine power. And they’re still decades behind the US, UK, France, and Germany. Full aviation power in the 2030s? Maybe, but “maybe” is the operative word.

Then we get to Germany. Demanding “guarantees” on NGF exports is laughable- that’s exactly why Germany is critical to the program. Without German participation, there would be no FCAS budget, no critical MTU cold-section compressor tech, no Hensoldt and Airbus EW expertise, and no political weight to actually export to Europe’s biggest markets. France needs Germany just as much as Germany needs France, which is why Trappier’s chest-beating about “80% French” is delusional. And the idea of swapping American nukes for French ones on German soil? Pure fantasy. Berlin isn’t about to trade a NATO nuclear guarantee for dependence on Paris’s boutique arsenal.

As for Ukraine-the dismissal here is either ignorance or willful downplaying. Ukraine has provided more than “some help” to Turkey; without Motor Sich’s design input, the Anka, Bayraktar, and even Turkish helicopters would have been years behind. And let’s not pretend France hasn’t done similar by leaning on GE for CFM56 and LEAP tech. I still agree Ukraine doesnt have a role in FCAS though.

So what you’re really doing is taking Turkey’s marketing press releases at face value, France’s self-promotion as gospel, and hand-waving Germany and Ukraine as “lesser.” Reality check: without German funding and MTU/ Airbus/ Hensoldt's engineering and capabilities, and without wider NATO buy-in, FCAS doesn’t even exist.

 

[智子 伊瀬]

Qatar no longer holds a stake in TRMotor, their stake was bought by TEI. Kale and RR agreed on technology transfer back in late 2022, but Ankara chose the Turkish consortium (Apparently the lobby was stronger, or TRMotor achieved greater success)

TUSAŞ Bought All Shares of TRMotor | TURDEF

TRMotor Guc Sistemleri San. A.Ş. has been purchased by Turkish Aerospace Industries. Previously, BMC sold its shares in TRMotor and left the partnership.

turdef.com

If Germany imposes an embargo again, what is the point of developing FCAS further? If there are guarantees, that is a completely different matter. Then why are the Germans against opening the Typhoon code for integrating American bombs and bought the F-35 for the sake of American bombs? If the Germans need aviation nuclear bombs so much, France can provide its own, without having to transfer the code and other things to third countries. Anka and Aksungur drones had Turkish engines, Ukrainian engines bought Baykar for Akıncı and Kızılelma. Gökbey and T-929 will use or are using Turkish engines. CFM was originally a consortium.
Well, the Turks have shown a leap in technology over the last 20 years.

 

[Snowstrike]

Qatar no longer holds a stake in TRMotor, their stake was bought by TEI. Kale and RR agreed on technology transfer back in late 2022, but Ankara chose the Turkish consortium (Apparently the lobby was stronger, or TRMotor achieved greater success)

TUSAŞ Bought All Shares of TRMotor | TURDEF

TRMotor Guc Sistemleri San. A.Ş. has been purchased by Turkish Aerospace Industries. Previously, BMC sold its shares in TRMotor and left the partnership.

turdef.com

If Germany imposes an embargo again, what is the point of developing FCAS further? If there are guarantees, that is a completely different matter. Then why are the Germans against opening the Typhoon code for integrating American bombs and bought the F-35 for the sake of American bombs? If the Germans need aviation nuclear bombs so much, France can provide its own, without having to transfer the code and other things to third countries. Anka and Aksungur drones had Turkish engines, Ukrainian engines bought Baykar for Akıncı and Kızılelma. Gökbey and T-929 will use or are using Turkish engines. CFM was originally a consortium.
Well, the Turks have shown a leap in technology over the last 20 years.

Who spoke about TRMotor? The Qatari-Turkish company in question is BCM. Your lack of knowledge of that information seems to indicate you are spewing things without thinking it through. The Turkish government wanted 100% IPR and full ToT for the engine, and of course, the involvement of BCM- things RR could not agree too, hence they pulled out of the deal, and Turkey was forced to go with an indigenous alternative. I don't know what your talking about with the 'Germany was against opening Typhoon code for American bombs' thing. It was cheaper for them to buy American F-35s, which were already nuclear-certified, rather than go through the grueling, expensive, and time-consuming process of certifying the Typhoon- which of course required US cooperation too. France operates its own nuclear doctrine, mostly independent from NATO. Germany does not want French nukes- whoever told you that information is dead wrong is deliberately lying. Only recently the Anka and Aksungur received indigenous Turkish engines, after inititally using Ukrainian ones- but the Bayraktar STILL uses Ukrainian engines. The Akinci HALE uses Ivchenko-Progress Al450T, while the Kizilelma uses the Al322F turbojet- another point gotten wrong by you. GE kept a tight leash on the crown jewels of the CFM.

In the end, I am highly disappointed by this conversation- EVERY message you have sent contains several factual inaccuracies, hoaxes, and myths- which can be seen as lack of due diligence, carelessness at best, or even intentional misinformation at worse. I strongly suggest you read heavily on the topic before further pursuing the discussion.

 

[智子 伊瀬]

Who spoke about TRMotor? The Qatari-Turkish company in question is BCM. Your lack of knowledge of that information seems to indicate you are spewing things without thinking it through. The Turkish government wanted 100% IPR and full ToT for the engine, and of course, the involvement of BCM- things RR could not agree too, hence they pulled out of the deal, and Turkey was forced to go with an indigenous alternative. I don't know what your talking about with the 'Germany was against opening Typhoon code for American bombs' thing. It was cheaper for them to buy American F-35s, which were already nuclear-certified, rather than go through the grueling, expensive, and time-consuming process of certifying the Typhoon- which of course required US cooperation too. France operates its own nuclear doctrine, mostly independent from NATO. Germany does not want French nukes- whoever told you that information is dead wrong is deliberately lying. Only recently the Anka and Aksungur received indigenous Turkish engines, after inititally using Ukrainian ones- but the Bayraktar STILL uses Ukrainian engines. The Akinci HALE uses Ivchenko-Progress Al450T, while the Kizilelma uses the Al322F turbojet- another point gotten wrong by you. GE kept a tight leash on the crown jewels of the CFM.

In the end, I am highly disappointed by this conversation- EVERY message you have sent contains several factual inaccuracies, hoaxes, and myths- which can be seen as lack of due diligence, carelessness at best, or even intentional misinformation at worse. I strongly suggest you read heavily on the topic before further pursuing the discussion.

Because BMC participated in the project through TRMotor, in which Qatar sold its entire stake. Qatar no longer has anything to do with the Kaan engine, Ismail Demir said back in 2022 that the RR problems were resolved, which means the Turkish consortium was not chosen because of "RR's refusal to transfer technology". Germany actively resisted the purchase of the F-35 under Merkel and only Scholz agreed to purchase it, since the Tornado would soon be decommissioned, and Germany also did not want to transfer the Typhoon source code to the US. France is ready to cover Germany with a nuclear umbrella if there is a request. I don't think Germany is eager to transfer the FCAS source code to the US for the sake of American bombs. Anka and Aksungur initially had Turkish engines, it is the private company Baykar that buys Ukrainian ones (Although there are 3 engine options to choose from for Akinci, the TF-6000 will be used on Kizilelma). So where is the German equivalent of CFM?

 

[Snowstrike]

Because BMC participated in the project through TRMotor, in which Qatar sold its entire stake. Qatar no longer has anything to do with the Kaan engine, Ismail Demir said back in 2022 that the RR problems were resolved, which means the Turkish consortium was not chosen because of "RR's refusal to transfer technology". Germany actively resisted the purchase of the F-35 under Merkel and only Scholz agreed to purchase it, since the Tornado would soon be decommissioned, and Germany also did not want to transfer the Typhoon source code to the US. France is ready to cover Germany with a nuclear umbrella if there is a request. I don't think Germany is eager to transfer the FCAS source code to the US for the sake of American bombs. Anka and Aksungur initially had Turkish engines, it is the private company Baykar that buys Ukrainian ones (Although there are 3 engine options to choose from for Akinci, the TF-6000 will be used on Kizilelma). So where is the German equivalent of CFM?

This rant is just a pile of half-baked takes dressed up like gospel. First off, Qatar never lost its stake in BMC. That’s fanfiction. The Qatari angle was through BMC, which Erdoğan’s crowd hyped for the Rolls-Royce JV. Qatar bailed, TEI scooped up TRMotor, and suddenly we’re supposed to believe Turkey unlocked Rolls-Royce metallurgy by osmosis? Please. Demir’s “RR problems were resolved” line in 2022 was political kabuki; if RR had actually agreed to full tech transfer, and to involve BMC in the engine development, the Kale-RR JV wouldn’t have been binned- Ankara just went with its own lobby and called it “national pride.” Translation: they’ll hobble along for decades until their own engine is maybe ready. Still far behind the best engine-makers in the world.

Now, Germany and the F-35. Merkel dragging her feet wasn’t about “defying the US,” it was optics. The Luftwaffe needed a certified nuclear bomb truck and the Typhoon was never going to carry B61s, unless you dump money and time on it. Scholz didn’t suddenly fall in love with Lockheed- he just bought the only plane that keeps NATO’s nuclear-sharing intact after the Tornado’s retirement. France’s “nuclear umbrella for Germany” is another fantasy; Paris guards the Force de frappe like crown jewels, they’re not handing Berlin nuclear cover out of charity. There are bound to be extensive disagreements between the two as seen now and and in the past- Berlin does not want France to become the next 'US' in NATO.

And the drone engines? Yeah, Anka and Aksungur had domestic engines in early runs, but Baykar still had to go shopping in Ukraine for Akıncı to even fly. TF-6000 for Kızılelma is vaporware until proven otherwise. This whole “look, we’re self-reliant” narrative falls apart once you scratch the surface.

Finally, the “where is Germany’s CFM?” jab is just ignorant. It’s called MTU Aero Engines. They don’t slap a flag on engines, they own the crown jewels: blisk tech, turbine blades, low-pressure systems. They’re partners in PW1000G, they build chunks of GE and Pratt engines, and they co-designed EJ200. Germany doesn’t need a vanity “national engine” to prove itself- their strategy is smarter: own the IP inside everyone else’s engines and cash the royalties while others brag about prototypes that barely spool up.

 

[智子 伊瀬]

Who spoke about TRMotor? The Qatari-Turkish company in question is BCM. Your lack of knowledge of that information seems to indicate you are spewing things without thinking it through. The Turkish government wanted 100% IPR and full ToT for the engine, and of course, the involvement of BCM- things RR could not agree too, hence they pulled out of the deal, and Turkey was forced to go with an indigenous alternative. I don't know what your talking about with the 'Germany was against opening Typhoon code for American bombs' thing. It was cheaper for them to buy American F-35s, which were already nuclear-certified, rather than go through the grueling, expensive, and time-consuming process of certifying the Typhoon- which of course required US cooperation too. France operates its own nuclear doctrine, mostly independent from NATO. Germany does not want French nukes- whoever told you that information is dead wrong is deliberately lying. Only recently the Anka and Aksungur received indigenous Turkish engines, after inititally using Ukrainian ones- but the Bayraktar STILL uses Ukrainian engines. The Akinci HALE uses Ivchenko-Progress Al450T, while the Kizilelma uses the Al322F turbojet- another point gotten wrong by you. GE kept a tight leash on the crown jewels of the CFM.

In the end, I am highly disappointed by this conversation- EVERY message you have sent contains several factual inaccuracies, hoaxes, and myths- which can be seen as lack of due diligence, carelessness at best, or even intentional misinformation at worse. I strongly suggest you read heavily on the topic before further pursuing the discussion.

TEI has bought out BMC's stake in TRMotor, and Qatar no longer has any involvement in the Kaan engine development program.
France is already building a nuclear weapons carrier base on the border with Germany and is actively declaring its readiness to provide a nuclear umbrella to any EU member upon request. Buying F-35A for Germany is simply pointless, using free-fall nuclear bombs in 21th century is nonsense. If necessary, Paris could provide cruise nuclear missiles for the NGF from the German Air Force, similar to the American nuclear bombs on the German Tornado.
Akinci currently has 3 engine variants to meet customer requirements (2 from PW and 1 from Ivchenko Progress), TF-6000 was originally planned for Kizilelma. Yes, the first batches will use the Ukrainian engine until the TF-6000 is launched into serial production. It is already actively undergoing testing, in the certification process.
That is, Germany does not own 50% of the shares of some CFM? Well who is stopping them from creating a similar concern with other manufacturers? Safran also had 50% of the shares in PowerJet, where it made the hot part for the SaM146, the remaining 50% was owned by NPO Saturn.

 

[Snowstrike]

TEI has bought out BMC's stake in TRMotor, and Qatar no longer has any involvement in the Kaan engine development program.
France is already building a nuclear weapons carrier base on the border with Germany and is actively declaring its readiness to provide a nuclear umbrella to any EU member upon request. Buying F-35A for Germany is simply pointless, using free-fall nuclear bombs in 21th century is nonsense. If necessary, Paris could provide cruise nuclear missiles for the NGF from the German Air Force, similar to the American nuclear bombs on the German Tornado.
Akinci currently has 3 engine variants to meet customer requirements (2 from PW and 1 from Ivchenko Progress), TF-6000 was originally planned for Kizilelma. Yes, the first batches will use the Ukrainian engine until the TF-6000 is launched into serial production. It is already actively undergoing testing, in the certification process.
That is, Germany does not own 50% of the shares of some CFM? Well who is stopping them from creating a similar concern with other manufacturers? Safran also had 50% of the shares in PowerJet, where it made the hot part for the SaM146, the remaining 50% was owned by NPO Saturn.

Wow. Where do I even start with this one? how about the fact that Qatar STILL has its 49% share in BMC. BMC is co-owned, 51% by Turkey and 49% by Qatar. TRMotor was bought out by TEI, NOT BMC. And who did the Turkish government want involved in the engine deal with RR? you guessed it- BMC. Of course, this was ridiculous and unacceptable to RR- coupled with the 100% IP and ToT demands of Turkey, they pulled out- leaving Turkey only one alternative- its indigenous engine. Cruise nuclear integration is highly complex. You can’t just “hand over cruise missiles” and call it a day- the avionics, fire-control, security protocols, and training make it a multi-year, multi-billion-dollar integration task. Assuming otherwise is downright false and has some serious problems. The F-35 isn’t just about nukes- it’s a fifth-gen multirole platform with stealth, sensors, and networked capabilities that Germany absolutely needs for modern air operations. Do you really think anything like this is gonna happen in the near future? Never. As for the Akinci, exactly. Turkey still relies on Ukrainian engines for operational capabilities because the TF-6000 is still in testing, not serial production. The TF-6000 is not a proven engine yet- it’s not operationally fielded. Prototype testing does not equal a reliable production engine capable of sustained operational sorties. And I really dont understand your CFM point- why would MTU be in it? Its a JV between Safran-GE. MTU has its own ventures in the EJ200, demonstrators, and its own R&D- making them world leaders in cold section and compressor technology. Which is why they are partnered with GE and P&W for several engines and MROs.

As for the Safran-NPO Saturn JV, it looks like your just spreading some more propaganda- because the engine produced (SaM146) was a CIVILIAN engine, aimed at powering CIVILIAN jets like the Sukhoi Superjet100. Trying to correlate Safran's CIVILIAN hot-section work with MILITARY engines is a FAR, FAR stretch. Infact, military engines are SO different that any knowledge gained from civilian engines dont mean anything when developing a MILITARY one. How is this related to the conversation? Or are you just trying to get some filler in now? I really think you should research on this topic, and stop spewing misinformation on forums. The quality of this conversation has dropped massively since it started- since everytime I quash your point you jump onto a completely different and unrelated topic, only to get swatted again.