The Soaring Cost of Navy's Upcoming 3 Kalvari-Class Scorpene Submarines

The Indian Navy is set to significantly bolster its submarine fleet with talks advancing to acquire three more Kalvari-class (Scorpène) submarines. State-owned Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Limited (MDL) is reportedly in the final stages of negotiation for a deal estimated at a substantial ₹35,000 crore (US$4.19 billion).

While the final price remains subject to negotiations, the projected cost per submarine falls between $1.2 billion and $1.3 billion. This marks a substantial 62% increase compared to the previous six Kalvari-class submarines procured at ₹23,652 crore (US$4.1 billion in 2023).

The new submarines are expected to feature upgraded equipment and sensors, positioning them at the forefront of technological advancements. However, this significant cost increase has raised concerns.

Despite constructing six Kalvari-class submarines in the past, MDL has been unable to boost indigenous content beyond 60%. The reliance on French original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) for critical components remains a major factor driving up the cost.

An upcoming price negotiation committee meeting offers a glimmer of hope for reducing the overall cost. However, the considerable price hike underscores the challenges India confronts in achieving self-reliance in its defense manufacturing sector.

Despite the cost concerns, these upgraded Kalvari-class submarines will substantially enhance India's underwater deterrence capabilities. The Navy's focus on acquiring these modern platforms highlights its commitment to maintaining a robust maritime defense posture in a geopolitically complex region.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

for 3 new Scorpene and integration of DRDO AIP we had to pay $3Bln.

The deal you are talking about is this deal the article is talking about. And the cost is 1.2billion dollars

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

I kind of agree with you, but the counter to that is if we end up cancelling the Rafale M, what alternative do we have? Boeing might start pushing the price up on the F-18 (knowing we are desperate), and there aren't any other viable alternatives until TEDBF comes along in a decade or so. Not to mention the damage it would cause to our relations with France...

You hit it at the mark. We are desperate, that is why france is jacking up the price.

Our kalvari production line is vacant, and DRDO Aip needs to be put somewhere, and france knows this.

We have 2 carriers with 3rd one coming by 2030-31, we only have old mig29s for them. Going for F18 is undesirable for us since we are unfamiliar with the aircraft and neither IAF nor navy has operated american fighters before and IAF is already operating rafales.

The way i see it, we have 2 options. Either pay whatever french are asking or we put faith in our domestic production. Go all in. Govt opens check book for DRDO, HAL to go crazy.

 

[wallisk]

60% indugeneous content means how price will rise? It shows mdl poor indigenization.

This new offer is a newer improved version of Scorpene sub. Let's see if they are offering WITH AIP and pumpjet propulsions or not next...

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

Our only option is to pray HAL won't mess up on this whether its time and performance

HAL has improved a lot. We dont see multi year delays any more. Lot of production, R&D, testing infra has been set up over the last 5 years. Tejas mk1a has a 4 month delay only. This is amazing from HAL.

 

[wallisk]

This is even more than P75I submarine cost. France is going to extract every single cent from India since this is the last order it will ever get from the navy.

I think India should say to france, either reduce the cost or we cancel naval rafale order. Naval rafale order is also not signed by now, probably due to very high price.

if france is going to act like this, just cancel both orders. Buy more P75I instead of more kalvari, and the domestic AIP can be put in the existing kalvari when they come for refit. As for naval rafale, put that money in TEDBF and order more of them.

15 years is HUGE escalations dude! I saw on you tube that Def Min have placed 70,000 crores orders with various PSU's and DRDO's and pvt players for 97 MK1A jets parts manufacturing orders. And, that comes to almost $86 millions usd per unit of MK1A jet HAL manufactured ex-factory price! For MK1 SP-LCA order it was coming to around 35 to 40 millions usd I think so...

 

[GMR]

This is how French Milk the Money without any serious upgrade , this was happen in Mirage-2000 Upgrade package too..............

If our DPSUs r unable to absorb technology even after building so many subs, if unable to exceed 60% indegenisarion, if we r unable to take timely decssions, if we have a shitful burocratic acquision process , than does IN has any other option in face of galloping maritime threats?

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

15 years is HUGE escalations dude! I saw on you tube that Def Min have placed 70,000 crores orders with various PSU's and DRDO's and pvt players for 97 MK1A jets parts manufacturing orders. And, that comes to almost $86 millions usd per unit of MK1A jet HAL manufactured ex-factory price! For MK1 SP-LCA order it was coming to around 35 to 40 millions usd I think so...

you have to factor in inflations and the fact that Mk1a jets are much more advanced than mk1. Also, Mk1a is the production variant and the cost includes maintenance, parts, weapons for a number of years. Per unit cost of mk1a is around 50million.

 

[Deepak Hegde]

This is the price of indecision and delayed implementation. The author is clearly fudging data without presenting a clear picture. The last order for Scorpenes was placed over 20 years ago. So how can you compare prices on a per submarine basis of 20 year old order and shout about increase of 62% for an order now? A timely decision to increase orders about 10 years ago would have given a much better price, not to mention timely deliveries !!

 

[Tanishq Bafila]

If both will take time, then best to go for cheaper optiin. Rafale N will cost 2 times as more than Tedbf, especially if we consider that if we dont buy Rafale marine or the marfa jets, and IAF buys Tedbf air force version (ORCA) , this huge order will reduce per unit cost even further.

only drawback i see to this is that HAL will be the one which will have to build all of these jets, which I dont see as big problem since HAL is not building AMCA and can fpcus on 4th gen jets

💯 TEDBF will be manufactured by a private company if anyone is interested..

Government is still searching for a private partner for AMCA , hope we find one soon

 

[Tanishq Bafila]

15 years is HUGE escalations dude! I saw on you tube that Def Min have placed 70,000 crores orders with various PSU's and DRDO's and pvt players for 97 MK1A jets parts manufacturing orders. And, that comes to almost $86 millions usd per unit of MK1A jet HAL manufactured ex-factory price! For MK1 SP-LCA order it was coming to around 35 to 40 millions usd I think so...

The actual price will depend on various factors including Number of Engines , Spares, contract for maintenance, Number of Twin seater / trainers , Pilot training etc...

 

[Anant]

You hit it at the mark. We are desperate, that is why france is jacking up the price.

Our kalvari production line is vacant, and DRDO Aip needs to be put somewhere, and france knows this.

We have 2 carriers with 3rd one coming by 2030-31, we only have old mig29s for them. Going for F18 is undesirable for us since we are unfamiliar with the aircraft and neither IAF nor navy has operated american fighters before and IAF is already operating rafales.

The way i see it, we have 2 options. Either pay whatever french are asking or we put faith in our domestic production. Go all in. Govt opens check book for DRDO, HAL to go crazy.

We can put all the faith in the world into our domestic production, but the fact remains that we, as of today, have a grand total of 1.5 carrier wings for two carriers.

Moreover, even if one decides to firewall TEDBF development, we aren't getting it until the early 2030s in any case.

 

[Anant]

HAL has improved a lot. We dont see multi year delays any more. Lot of production, R&D, testing infra has been set up over the last 5 years. Tejas mk1a has a 4 month delay only. This is amazing from HAL.

Um, nope. The Tejas Mk 1A is atleast four months behind it's already-postponed deadline. I don't remember the exact figure, but HAL was originally supposed to deliver 3 or so Tejas Mk 1As by March 2023 or so.

Oh, and we haven't received any recent confirmation that the first Mk 1A will be delivered this month, so let's see...

 

[Anant]

Last order it will ever get from, IAF, Navy and Army, it is better to make a diesel electric submarine based on Arihant and install AIP in it instead of ordering more Scorpene, it will cost a fortune.

Boss, the problem with that is we haven't mastered the level of miniaturisation needed for that. Yes, we can, in theory at least, build an SSK version of the Arihant-class. However, to actually make it anything even remotely resembling a decent SSK, we'd have to bring the displacement down to 3,500 tons or lesser (and even that assumes you can switch out the SLBM cells to a decent number of SLCM VLS cells).

Doing that miniaturisation is easier said than done.

 

[sanket]

If our DPSUs r unable to absorb technology even after building so many subs, if unable to exceed 60% indegenisarion, if we r unable to take timely decssions, if we have a shitful burocratic acquision process , than does IN has any other option in face of galloping maritime threats?

They are demanding 62% higher for 40% imported components .

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

Um, nope. The Tejas Mk 1A is atleast four months behind it's already-postponed deadline. I don't remember the exact figure, but HAL was originally supposed to deliver 3 or so Tejas Mk 1As by March 2023 or so.

Oh, and we haven't received any recent confirmation that the first Mk 1A will be delivered this month, so let's see...

HAL chairman has said that deliveries will start in july and 16 jets will be delivered by march 31 2025. And i dont think HAL was supposed to deliver 8 jets by march. They WERE supposed to start delivery in march. The start of delivery is delayed but it does not seems that this delay has impacted the total delivery schedule for entire year.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

We can put all the faith in the world into our domestic production, but the fact remains that we, as of today, have a grand total of 1.5 carrier wings for two carriers.

Moreover, even if one decides to firewall TEDBF development, we aren't getting it until the early 2030s in any case.

i dont think there is critical fighter shortage in the navy. No one is raising the alarm for that, as is the case for IAF. If navy fighter procurement is delayed by 5 years, i dont think it is major problem. If IAF fighter procurement is delayed by 5 years, that will be HUGE problem.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

💯 TEDBF will be manufactured by a private company if anyone is interested..

Government is still searching for a private partner for AMCA , hope we find one soon

oh, i have not heard about that. Regarding AMCA, 3 private players have submitted proposals to MoD. Lets see which will be chosen.

 

[Ajath Shri]

This is even more than P75I submarine cost. France is going to extract every single cent from India since this is the last order it will ever get from the navy.

I think India should say to france, either reduce the cost or we cancel naval rafale order. Naval rafale order is also not signed by now, probably due to very high price.

if france is going to act like this, just cancel both orders. Buy more P75I instead of more kalvari, and the domestic AIP can be put in the existing kalvari when they come for refit. As for naval rafale, put that money in TEDBF and order more of them.

The proposed sub is going to equipped with advanced systems as per the article. So the upgradation will come with additional costs . So what's wrong if the costs go up ?

 

[beencensured]

The proposed sub is going to equipped with advanced systems as per the article. So the upgradation will come with additional costs . So what's wrong if the costs go up ?

What is wrong with more cost? Well, it does not help the deal at all, when there is also project 76, and 75i are cheaper.

 

[beencensured]

If both will take time, then best to go for cheaper optiin. Rafale N will cost 2 times as more than Tedbf, especially if we consider that if we dont buy Rafale marine or the marfa jets, and IAF buys Tedbf air force version (ORCA) , this huge order will reduce per unit cost even further.

only drawback i see to this is that HAL will be the one which will have to build all of these jets, which I dont see as big problem since HAL is not building AMCA and can fpcus on 4th gen jets

Another option is twin engine Tejas for air force. It maybe cheaper and better and get a ten ton payload. I did not like HAL proposal of twin engine tejas for navy as there are very limited number of aircraft that could be had. But twin engine Tejas for air-force seem something feasible above orca as can be made quicker. .