Why HAL Proposed LCA Naval Variant Lost to ADA's TEDBF in the Race for India's Naval Fighter Jet

In 2019, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) proposed a twin-engine fighter jet design based on the LCA-Tejas platform, aiming to fulfill the Indian Navy's specific requirements. This proposal emerged amidst ongoing discussions regarding the Twin Engine Deck Based Fighter (TEDBF) program led by the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA).

Sources indicate that HAL's proposal aimed to pre-empt the TEDBF program, leveraging their experience with the single-engine Naval LCA technology demonstrator. Initially, the ADA proposed a 16.5-ton single-engine Naval LCA Mk2 with upgraded F-414 engines. However, safety concerns associated with single-engine operations on aircraft carriers led to its rejection.

HAL addressed these concerns by incorporating twin engines into their design, utilizing the existing LCA platform to expedite development. While specifics remain undisclosed, the proposed fighter was estimated to be heavier than the rejected Naval LCA Mk2, potentially reaching 25 tons.

The initial variant was likely to be powered by F-414 engines, currently used in the Tejas MkII, with a long-term goal of utilizing indigenously developed engines derived from technology for the AMCA MkII, India's next-generation 5th generation fighter jet. This approach sought to combine foreign expertise with domestic engine development capabilities.

In contrast, the ADA's TEDBF program proposed a completely new twin-engine design, envisioned as a heavier 26-ton platform with a potentially longer development timeline due to its fresh design approach.

Ultimately, the Indian Navy determined that the TEDBF program better aligned with its requirements. While HAL's proposal offered a potentially faster development cycle based on existing experience, the ADA's TEDBF program promised a more advanced, purpose-built design.

 

[NSR]

Sheesh, what the heck is happening?

Instead of one Navala fighter, now we have two competing TEDBF and NTejas II?
Where does the money come from all these developmental projects?
Tejas Mk 2
TEDBF
NTejas Mk2,
AMCA, etc

Just choosing F/A-18E/F Block III and Growlers would have given India a ready made Naval fighter for decades to come, and enough time to develop its own TEDBF or NTejas Mk 2.

Definitely a great conspiracy is unfolding.

 

[Ut]

Yes what we needed most at this time is anoher new aircraft concept not the plan to complete whats already on anvil

 

[beencensured]

That's the way it should be for defence. HAL ADA NAL DRDO have to compete with each other and the best and most practical design must be chosen and then given to private company for mass production, with 60/40 profit share (60 for PSU and 40 for production). In USSR/China the state owned companies compete with each other. Competition breeds excellence.

Hal is wasting time and resources. Just shoot some of its Id1ots( or smacked them around till they have sense) , and make HAL act in national interest. Hardly HAL can make trainer then wants to make forth plus generation plane. It ambition to compete with reputable companies for scarce funs, and do no fundamental development. HAL think listening abject third class mental menial regressive who have no brain like trying for all metal design for a trainer so cheaper to produce then put more powerful engine then tejas because too heavy, is example of its confused regressive behavior that rejects higher composites which lowers vibration and so cost of operation and maintenance, but by acting in behest of very corrupt force that wants to keep India from trying to be best but going for lowest hung fruit. They shameless show their corrupt c0ngres British azz having third class coolie subservient dreams that say why try to make the best., when It is Hindu education that developed mathematic, whose history came scientific evolution, whose cosmology shows the only close agreement with modern science Carl Sagan "Cosmos", who talks of time dilation(day of Brahma), and invented surgery , from procession of equinox, to modern world Jagadish Bose discovery of semiconductor and doing first signal processing and many great scientist. These third class shameless people need a machine gun treatment that made honor the British who made India poor, famine stricken and illiterate country forgetting India's great contribution to the world.

IF these shameless people of HAL loved this country they would be designing MTA, HEavy lift aircraft, Heavy lift helicopter, and give up their shameless immoral perverted mental coolie.

 

[TS]

Healthy competition is always good, this is the best logical approach, instead of inventing a brand new wheel doing it from the scratch, making changes to the existing product will take very less time, this approach will be much faster rather than waiting for 25-30 years for TEDBF, this is how they mske sny new industrial product, if you ask Industry experts, MOD/GOI should allocate funding and ask HAL to come up with a prototype, and ask Navy to test it, if this product is a success then we don’t need MRFA and we will have a common product for both Air Force and the Navy like Rafale and Rafale-M, no need of both and for that matter no other foreign 4th gen jets, lot of money can be saved, it is unnecessary to import a 4th gen jet if we can do it at home.

Sounds like a good idea, wonder why HAL didn’t think about it before, why this sudden enlightenment, anyways it’s a great idea, to make it even more faster they can try installing one powerful engine that produce at-least 120KN thrust, in this case EJ 200 would be the best option in terms of power to weight ratio, it’s dry weight is 2180lb / 988kg compared to GEF414’s 2445lb/1110kg and diameter 29inches vs GE’s 45 inches, EJ 200 is a compact engine that has thrust vectoring also, so no need of canards, Naval Tejas already come with LEVCONS an advanced form of Leading edge root extension, if HAL decides to use twin EJ200 engines with thrust vectoring nozzles, it would be excellent.

 

[bonito]

Govt departments, instead of working together are working against each other.
First they complain about approval and cost, then they have work against each other, and do not want reforms and change in work culture. this is not going to work. corporatization is must.

ADA is dedicated design agency, HAL can propose another solution with its experience to an requirement. Let NAvy do their due diligence choose which ever is effective and appropriate. This'nt going to Kil the product rather complement with more reliability.

 

[Amit]

Healthy competition is always good, this is the best logical approach, instead of inventing a brand new wheel doing it from the scratch, making changes to the existing product will take very less time, this approach will be much faster rather than waiting for 25-30 years for TEDBF, this is how they mske sny new industrial product, if you ask Industry experts, MOD/GOI should allocate funding and ask HAL to come up with a prototype, and ask Navy to test it, if this product is a success then we don’t need MRFA and we will have a common product for both Air Force and the Navy like Rafale and Rafale-M, no need of both and for that matter no other foreign 4th gen jets, lot of money can be saved, it is unnecessary to import a 4th gen jet if we can do it at home.

Naval Tejas is a great jet, there is nothing wrong in trying if they use their own funds.

 

[Sandeep]

This was something that was always going to happen with HAL. Anyway they lost out and common sense prevailed. HAL should focus on manufacturing and delivering the Tejas MK1A and quickly solve the MK2 jet as soon as possible as we need more Tejas MK2 versions and build our squadron strength until AMCA gets ready.

 

[Sentoki]

The only one with a worse track record for development delays than DRDO/ADA is HAL. IJT, HTFE25, HTSE, HLFT42, CATS Warrior, CATS Hunter....the list is endless....

All HAL concepts yet to see the light of the day or be fully approved by the user.

HAL needs to focus on first improving it's system integration track record before trying to become a developer on its own right.

I am glad, Navy did not fall for this trap...

 

[Anant]

tell me any fighter jet which has twin or single engine in its name... twin engines is a specification not a name

Boss, that is simply a codename, as I pointed out. The actual name won't be TEDBF. It'll be something else.

 

[Raja Raja Cholan]

Boss, that is simply a codename, as I pointed out. The actual name won't be TEDBF. It'll be something else.

TEDBF is just a reference to specific fighter aircrafts profiling. Just like multi role fighter, air superiority fighter and reconnaissance and so on. The naming of the fighter will come in the later stages just like Tejas, Falcon, Eagle, Rapptor, Tomcat and so on. But we haven't even got off from drawing board yet still haggling on the design and engine type to be used. The way I look at the progress and time lines given and revised to often tells me the Tejas Mk2 is not any soon take flight. Because Tejas Mk1A is held up for more technical details involved. So I can imagine the dateline for AMCA and TEDBF. Therfore I personally think in my opinion, the best solution to beef up the numbers of fighters air aircraft squadrons to 42 square is to go for 114 MRFA while allowing Tejas Mk2, AMCA and TEDBF take all the time they need to make it become a reality.

 

[Anant]

TEDBF is just a reference to specific fighter aircrafts profiling. Just like multi role fighter, air superiority fighter and reconnaissance and so on. The naming of the fighter will come in the later stages just like Tejas, Falcon, Eagle, Rapptor, Tomcat and so on. But we haven't even got off from drawing board yet still haggling on the design and engine type to be used. The way I look at the progress and time lines given and revised to often tells me the Tejas Mk2 is not any soon take flight. Because Tejas Mk1A is held up for more technical details involved. So I can imagine the dateline for AMCA and TEDBF. Therfore I personally think in my opinion, the best solution to beef up the numbers of fighters air aircraft squadrons to 42 square is to go for 114 MRFA while allowing Tejas Mk2, AMCA and TEDBF take all the time they need to make it become a reality.

Agreed. I have been saying for a very long time that MRFA is a quantitative necessity, and despite the cost, this is a bullet we have to bite.

 

[Sumit Verma]

All the new 4th gen/+ programs needs to be scrapped. Unnecessarily wasting money on 40 years old tech will not take us anywhere.

 

[Benith Israel]

Hal is wasting time and resources. Just shoot some of its Id1ots( or smacked them around till they have sense) , and make HAL act in national interest. Hardly HAL can make trainer then wants to make forth plus generation plane. It ambition to compete with reputable companies for scarce funs, and do no fundamental development. HAL think listening abject third class mental menial regressive who have no brain like trying for all metal design for a trainer so cheaper to produce then put more powerful engine then tejas because too heavy, is example of its confused regressive behavior that rejects higher composites which lowers vibration and so cost of operation and maintenance, but by acting in behest of very corrupt force that wants to keep India from trying to be best but going for lowest hung fruit. They shameless show their corrupt c0ngres British azz having third class coolie subservient dreams that say why try to make the best., when It is Hindu education that developed mathematic, whose history came scientific evolution, whose cosmology shows the only close agreement with modern science Carl Sagan "Cosmos", who talks of time dilation(day of Brahma), and invented surgery , from procession of equinox, to modern world Jagadish Bose discovery of semiconductor and doing first signal processing and many great scientist. These third class shameless people need a machine gun treatment that made honor the British who made India poor, famine stricken and illiterate country forgetting India's great contribution to the world.

IF these shameless people of HAL loved this country they would be designing MTA, HEavy lift aircraft, Heavy lift helicopter, and give up their shameless immoral perverted mental coolie.

HAL is a far more agile than of its competition such as ADA or NAL. If tedbf was HAL project atleast a full scale prototype might have been out unlike Ada which just sits around waiting for free funds from GOI to waste

 

[Benith Israel]

Agreed. I have been saying for a very long time that MRFA is a quantitative necessity, and despite the cost, this is a bullet we have to bite.

Why waste money on tedbf? Use it to buy 50 more rafale M

 

[Anant]

Why waste money on tedbf? Use it to buy 50 more rafale M

Two reasons. Firstly, an indigenous naval aircraft is needed in the long run, especially once India brings more carriers in. Secondly, the best case scenario is that we can get 10-12 Rafale Ms for the price of the TEDBF program (not the cost of production aircraft, mind you), which isn't sustainable in the long run.