Why HAL Proposed LCA Naval Variant Lost to ADA's TEDBF in the Race for India's Naval Fighter Jet

In 2019, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) proposed a twin-engine fighter jet design based on the LCA-Tejas platform, aiming to fulfill the Indian Navy's specific requirements. This proposal emerged amidst ongoing discussions regarding the Twin Engine Deck Based Fighter (TEDBF) program led by the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA).

Sources indicate that HAL's proposal aimed to pre-empt the TEDBF program, leveraging their experience with the single-engine Naval LCA technology demonstrator. Initially, the ADA proposed a 16.5-ton single-engine Naval LCA Mk2 with upgraded F-414 engines. However, safety concerns associated with single-engine operations on aircraft carriers led to its rejection.

HAL addressed these concerns by incorporating twin engines into their design, utilizing the existing LCA platform to expedite development. While specifics remain undisclosed, the proposed fighter was estimated to be heavier than the rejected Naval LCA Mk2, potentially reaching 25 tons.

The initial variant was likely to be powered by F-414 engines, currently used in the Tejas MkII, with a long-term goal of utilizing indigenously developed engines derived from technology for the AMCA MkII, India's next-generation 5th generation fighter jet. This approach sought to combine foreign expertise with domestic engine development capabilities.

In contrast, the ADA's TEDBF program proposed a completely new twin-engine design, envisioned as a heavier 26-ton platform with a potentially longer development timeline due to its fresh design approach.

Ultimately, the Indian Navy determined that the TEDBF program better aligned with its requirements. While HAL's proposal offered a potentially faster development cycle based on existing experience, the ADA's TEDBF program promised a more advanced, purpose-built design.

 

[sunilanalysis]

Name TEBDF looks so junk...

 

[RG]

Govt departments, instead of working together are working against each other.
First they complain about approval and cost, then they have work against each other, and do not want reforms and change in work culture. this is not going to work. corporatization is must.

 

[Pink Panther]

Healthy competition is always good, this is the best logical approach, instead of inventing a brand new wheel doing it from the scratch, making changes to the existing product will take very less time, this approach will be much faster rather than waiting for 25-30 years for TEDBF, this is how they mske sny new industrial product, if you ask Industry experts, MOD/GOI should allocate funding and ask HAL to come up with a prototype, and ask Navy to test it, if this product is a success then we don’t need MRFA and we will have a common product for both Air Force and the Navy like Rafale and Rafale-M, no need of both and for that matter no other foreign 4th gen jets, lot of money can be saved, it is unnecessary to import a 4th gen jet if we can do it at home.

 

[Anant]

Name TEBDF looks so junk...

TEDBF is just a codename, just like AMCA and LCA, or even KF-X or TF-X. Once the prototype is rolled out, the aircraft will receive a name, just like the LCA was named the Tejas, the KF-X was named the KF-21 Boramae, and the TF-X was named the Kaan.

 

[Boomeranger]

Name TEBDF looks so junk...

Twin engines deck based fighter dude............

 

[Fresh Water]

Indian Navy has made the right decision. A jet custom designed for a particular purpose is likely to be best suited for that purpose.

 

[Vipul Kumar]

Govt departments, instead of working together are working against each other.
First they complain about approval and cost, then they have work against each other, and do not want reforms and change in work culture. this is not going to work. corporatization is must.

Actually the way of reporting of these channels are actually awful they are not fighting instead hal will use ada to design naval tejas variant to diversify its naval jet program, defence.in and next generation weapon technology channels on facebook report any news in strange ways

 

[charminar_waale_ismail_bhai]

Healthy competition is always good, this is the best logical approach, instead of inventing a brand new wheel doing it from the scratch, making changes to the existing product will take very less time, this approach will be much faster rather than waiting for 25-30 years for TEDBF, this is how they mske sny new industrial product, if you ask Industry experts, MOD/GOI should allocate funding and ask HAL to come up with a prototype, and ask Navy to test it, if this product is a success then we don’t need MRFA and we will have a common product for both Air Force and the Navy like Rafale and Rafale-M, no need of both and for that matter no other foreign 4th gen jets, lot of money can be saved, it is unnecessary to import a 4th gen jet if we can do it at home.

What is the point of this drawing & coloring competition between the two most aalsi & nirlajj agencies of the country?

Everybody and their dogs know that neither can build one from conception to realization.

 

[Aravind]

we should do something otherwise we will loose everything, spending that much money on them they not delivering any projects take example from turkey don't simply say nato nation

 

[beencensured]

Indian Navy has made the right decision. A jet custom designed for a particular purpose is likely to be best suited for that purpose.

Tejas naval prototype np1 and np2 based on lca were never intended to be the actual plane, but for experimentation Naval prototype NP5 which was the actual fighter jet that was to be implemented. Single engine naval Tejas is very efficient and cost effective that can serve dual role as both Naval trainer and omni role fighter jet especially with ge-414 engines or the 90kn wet thrust Kaveri engine that is speculated. Making a twin engine naval fighter jet is redundant at best when TEDBF is being developed. Further HAL has plenty of resource, but it reputation in developing planes is not great. But HAL can have little guts then they could go for developing naval LCA single engine, and they love the nation they can concentrate on MTA, Heavy lift aircraft, and Heavy lift helicopters. They have plenty of cash to develop these items instead duplicate work and wasting resources. They should think of nation building.

 

[Akshat]

Healthy competition is always good, this is the best logical approach, instead of inventing a brand new wheel doing it from the scratch, making changes to the existing product will take very less time, this approach will be much faster rather than waiting for 25-30 years for TEDBF, this is how they mske sny new industrial product, if you ask Industry experts, MOD/GOI should allocate funding and ask HAL to come up with a prototype, and ask Navy to test it, if this product is a success then we don’t need MRFA and we will have a common product for both Air Force and the Navy like Rafale and Rafale-M, no need of both and for that matter no other foreign 4th gen jets, lot of money can be saved, it is unnecessary to import a 4th gen jet if we can do it at home.

They can’t manufacture Tejas mk2 on time and you want them to design as well now. Meanwhile, Dassault is ready to start deliveries in just 36 months. Some contrast.

 

[beencensured]

What is the point of this drawing & coloring competition between the two most aalsi & nirlajj agencies of the country?

Everybody and their dogs know that neither can build one from conception to realization.

ADA has a excellent reputation and success developing a reduced rcs plane that highest level composites then contemporary fighters like (f-22, f-35, rafales, grippen, and so on) having best FCS, being best bomber in IAF, having good payload, lowest wing loading, is most cost effective with low operating cost, with great safety record, best availability rates with Tejas mk1a flying with good percent of indigenous content, whereas HAL struggles to develop trainers.

 

[Pink Panther]

What is the point of this drawing & coloring competition between the two most aalsi & nirlajj agencies of the country?

Everybody and their dogs know that neither can build one from conception to realization.

This is industry practice, unless a product is 99% different, they won’t start from the scratch , they will start with an existing product, make changes to it and come up with a new product, doing this way, it will take very less time for R&D, If HAL can make Naval Tejas, they can definitely make Twin engine jet, Tejas is a rare success and pride of India unlike other products.

 

[Surendra Barsode]

HAL should not unnecessarily waste its energies on doing something other agencies are expected to do. HAL should focus on production of Tejas and helicopters.

 

[sunilanalysis]

Twin engines deck based fighter dude............

tell me any fighter jet which has twin or single engine in its name... twin engines is a specification not a name

 

[Pink Panther]

They can’t manufacture Tejas mk2 on time and you want them to design as well now. Meanwhile, Dassault is ready to start deliveries in just 36 months. Some contrast.

For that you can’t ask Indians to Dismantle Hal and instead ask Indians to replace every old jet they have with your Rafale, for that we might have to transfer the ownership of Andaman to France, everything is falling into the right place, things will happen when it happens,

 

[Akshat]

For that you can’t ask Indians to Dismantle Hal and instead ask Indians to replace every old jet they have with your Rafale, for that we might have to transfer the ownership of Andaman to France, everything is falling into the right place, things will happen when it happens,

Not my Rafale, but our beloved military’s beloved Rafale. Which is always L1. But a far simpler solution is to just sell off HAL. If HAL is not sold off we won’t have any option but to import Rafales in much higher numbers than even 114.

 

[Rational Guy]

Govt departments, instead of working together are working against each other.
First they complain about approval and cost, then they have work against each other, and do not want reforms and change in work culture. this is not going to work. corporatization is must.

That's the way it should be for defence. HAL ADA NAL DRDO have to compete with each other and the best and most practical design must be chosen and then given to private company for mass production, with 60/40 profit share (60 for PSU and 40 for production). In USSR/China the state owned companies compete with each other. Competition breeds excellence.

 

[jagan.g]

HAL trying to ring fence aircraft manufacturing in India so that no other private company can enter it's domain. It wants to monopolise and kill the potential competition.

 

[NSR]

Sheesh, what the heck is happening?

Instead of one Navala fighter, now we have two competing TEDBF and NTejas II?
Where does the money come from all these developmental projects?
Tejas Mk 2
TEDBF
NTejas Mk2,
AMCA, etc

Just choosing F/A-18E/F Block III and Growlers would have given India a ready made Naval fighter for decades to come, and enough time to develop its own TEDBF or NTejas Mk 2.

Definitely a great conspiracy is unfolding.

 

[Ut]

Yes what we needed most at this time is anoher new aircraft concept not the plan to complete whats already on anvil

 

[beencensured]

That's the way it should be for defence. HAL ADA NAL DRDO have to compete with each other and the best and most practical design must be chosen and then given to private company for mass production, with 60/40 profit share (60 for PSU and 40 for production). In USSR/China the state owned companies compete with each other. Competition breeds excellence.

Hal is wasting time and resources. Just shoot some of its Id1ots( or smacked them around till they have sense) , and make HAL act in national interest. Hardly HAL can make trainer then wants to make forth plus generation plane. It ambition to compete with reputable companies for scarce funs, and do no fundamental development. HAL think listening abject third class mental menial regressive who have no brain like trying for all metal design for a trainer so cheaper to produce then put more powerful engine then tejas because too heavy, is example of its confused regressive behavior that rejects higher composites which lowers vibration and so cost of operation and maintenance, but by acting in behest of very corrupt force that wants to keep India from trying to be best but going for lowest hung fruit. They shameless show their corrupt c0ngres British azz having third class coolie subservient dreams that say why try to make the best., when It is Hindu education that developed mathematic, whose history came scientific evolution, whose cosmology shows the only close agreement with modern science Carl Sagan "Cosmos", who talks of time dilation(day of Brahma), and invented surgery , from procession of equinox, to modern world Jagadish Bose discovery of semiconductor and doing first signal processing and many great scientist. These third class shameless people need a machine gun treatment that made honor the British who made India poor, famine stricken and illiterate country forgetting India's great contribution to the world.

IF these shameless people of HAL loved this country they would be designing MTA, HEavy lift aircraft, Heavy lift helicopter, and give up their shameless immoral perverted mental coolie.

 

[TS]

Healthy competition is always good, this is the best logical approach, instead of inventing a brand new wheel doing it from the scratch, making changes to the existing product will take very less time, this approach will be much faster rather than waiting for 25-30 years for TEDBF, this is how they mske sny new industrial product, if you ask Industry experts, MOD/GOI should allocate funding and ask HAL to come up with a prototype, and ask Navy to test it, if this product is a success then we don’t need MRFA and we will have a common product for both Air Force and the Navy like Rafale and Rafale-M, no need of both and for that matter no other foreign 4th gen jets, lot of money can be saved, it is unnecessary to import a 4th gen jet if we can do it at home.

Sounds like a good idea, wonder why HAL didn’t think about it before, why this sudden enlightenment, anyways it’s a great idea, to make it even more faster they can try installing one powerful engine that produce at-least 120KN thrust, in this case EJ 200 would be the best option in terms of power to weight ratio, it’s dry weight is 2180lb / 988kg compared to GEF414’s 2445lb/1110kg and diameter 29inches vs GE’s 45 inches, EJ 200 is a compact engine that has thrust vectoring also, so no need of canards, Naval Tejas already come with LEVCONS an advanced form of Leading edge root extension, if HAL decides to use twin EJ200 engines with thrust vectoring nozzles, it would be excellent.

 

[bonito]

Govt departments, instead of working together are working against each other.
First they complain about approval and cost, then they have work against each other, and do not want reforms and change in work culture. this is not going to work. corporatization is must.

ADA is dedicated design agency, HAL can propose another solution with its experience to an requirement. Let NAvy do their due diligence choose which ever is effective and appropriate. This'nt going to Kil the product rather complement with more reliability.