Why IAF Opts for Predator Drones Despite Domestic Potential of Tata's Grob G 180 SPn

The Indian Air Force's recent acquisition of Predator drones from the United States has ignited debate surrounding the potential of domestically produced alternatives.

While the Predator offers proven capabilities, the acquisition raises questions about why the IAF didn't prioritize the indigenous Grob G 180 SPn aircraft, for which Tata Advanced Systems Limited (TASL) holds the intellectual property rights.

Proponents of the Grob G 180 SPn argue that it presents a compelling case as a highly capable and cost-effective unmanned platform. With TASL controlling the IP rights, India possesses significant freedom to customize the aircraft to meet the specific needs of its armed forces, integrating advanced indigenous technologies such as electronic intelligence (ELINT) and intelligence, surveillance, target acquisition, and reconnaissance (ISTAR) systems. This level of autonomy contrasts with foreign-built platforms like the Predator, which often come with export limitations and modification restrictions.

Furthermore, the Grob G 180 SPn boasts a potential cost advantage, estimated at around $8 million per unit compared to the Predator's $12 million price tag. This cost-effectiveness becomes even more pronounced when compared to high-end alternatives like the P-8 Poseidon, which costs upwards of $450 million per unit. A fleet of Grob G 180-based UAVs could provide a versatile and economical solution for various roles, enhancing operational flexibility without straining the defence budget.

Beyond cost, the Grob G 180 SPn offers a range of operational advantages. Its high ceiling of 41,000 feet enables operation over vast maritime expanses and contested airspaces, while its cruise speed of 770 km/h surpasses the Predator, allowing for rapid response and threat evasion. The platform also holds potential as a missile carrier, capable of deploying advanced Indian missile systems like BrahMos and LRASM.

Choosing the Grob G 180 SPn could have significant implications for India's aerospace industry. Domestic production and customization would stimulate local expertise in UAV development, create high-skill jobs, and contribute to technological self-reliance. The integration of indigenous avionics and combat systems could lead to a fully indigenous platform with export potential, positioning India as a key player in the global UAV market.

While the IAF ultimately opted for the Predator, the Grob G 180 SPn represents a compelling example of India's growing capacity for indigenous defence production. As the nation continues to pursue self-reliance in defence technology, the future of platforms like the Grob G 180 SPn remains a topic of considerable interest and debate.

 

[PKPRS]

It seems like a great idea, this would perfectly suit for drone and AEW&C. roles.

 

[sanket]

Let see what TASL can offer with some Innovative

 

[tipoo2]

How about a mini inexpensive AWACS since we're very short on those?

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

TATA is such an extraordinary company, with deep sense of national duty. I dont have words to express my admiration for the TATA family.

 

[M S Chatterji]

It is a manned aircraft hence cannot go far like the Predator goes.

 

[Abs29]

How about a mini inexpensive AWACS since we're very short on those?

Grob 180 is too small for that purpose. Maybe ir coulf be integrated onboard Dassault Falcon 2000 that are being built in India. Not sure.

 

[Abs29]

The Piaggio Hammerhead UAV is based on Piaggao P180 Avanti. No reason to believe the Grob G180 Spn also can't be adapted for same. Moreover not many people know but along with the G180 Spn, TATA also rumored to have acquired for another high altitude manned surveillance aircraft project. So even that could be adapted for developing HALE UAV.

 

[Abs29]

It seems like a great idea, this would perfectly suit for drone and AEW&C. roles.

Too small for traditional AEWC. May be a smaller helicopter AEWC like system could be explored but definitely won't be as effective as larger purpose built platforms.

 

[Anant]

It is a manned aircraft hence cannot go far like the Predator goes.

Sir, the idea is to convert it to a UAV. As it so happens, this means the fuel capacity can be increases substantially, and so can the range. The Italian Piaggio P.180 is an example, which was designed as a small passenger aircraft and then had a UAV based on it.

 

[Anant]

Grob 180 is too small for that purpose. Maybe ir coulf be integrated onboard Dassault Falcon 2000 that are being built in India. Not sure.

I would posit that even the Falcon would be too small, unless we can potentially get a slightly smaller version of the beam radar used on the Netra Mk 1.

 

[Dipesh Debnath]

Just replace the manned cockpit with an autopilot . This should be easy in 2024.

 

[Dipesh Debnath]

Too small for traditional AEWC. May be a smaller helicopter AEWC like system could be explored but definitely won't be as effective as larger purpose built platforms.

If u don't let humans sit inside, there is enough payload for a light aews or jamming pods

 

[Anant]

If u don't let humans sit inside, there is enough payload for a light aews or jamming pods

Boss, while an ELINT and EW aircraft modification would very well be a good way to go, an AEW&C modification may be too much for the aircraft.

The reason I say that is because the Grob G180 is a very small aircraft in terms of size, which means that the beam radar may be too large to fit, and if done, would affect flight performance very adversely.

 

[Abs29]

Boss, while an ELINT and EW aircraft modification would very well be a good way to go, an AEW&C modification may be too much for the aircraft.

The reason I say that is because the Grob G180 is a very small aircraft in terms of size, which means that the beam radar may be too large to fit, and if done, would affect flight performance very adversely.

Even the helibrone AEWC has radar controllers who sit on station. So some technical crew apart from flight crew will still be needed.

 

[Leo red]

Mq9 predator is garbage bag with usds to rain in water. I pray God that our govt. Gets mind for not buying it. By the way we must allow startups as well as private sector to start dumping large amount of drones to fill stomach of defence forces as fast as possible. To avoid purchase of garbage from foreign companies. New era of war will be on Air and very fast precision one with night fight capabilities.

 

[Abs29]

I would posit that even the Falcon would be too small, unless we can potentially get a slightly smaller version of the beam radar used on the Netra Mk 1.

Maybe they can explore the conformal AEWC arrays like Israeli AEWC developed for Italy. It could theoritically incorporate small side looking radar panels, but yes the coverage would be narrow and the tracking range limited

 

[Leo red]

We need lots of spy as well as communication satellites. ISRO should start working on it. Full space with important location and fast deliverys for batter defence structures.

 

[Abs29]

Sir, the idea is to convert it to a UAV. As it so happens, this means the fuel capacity can be increases substantially, and so can the range. The Italian Piaggio P.180 is an example, which was designed as a small passenger aircraft and then had a UAV based on it.

Obviously the Grob G180 Spn would need to be modified and I assume a longer fuselage with wing span, more potent engines with winglets would suffice.

 

[Anant]

Obviously the Grob G180 Spn would need to be modified and I assume a longer fuselage with wing span, more potent engines with winglets would suffice.

At that point, you may as well design a new purpose-built aircraft. If you elongate the fuselage, increase the wingspan, change the engines, etc, you have already gone a good part of the way for a new aircraft. At that point, a new aircraft tends to be better than a compromise modification.

 

[Anant]

Maybe they can explore the conformal AEWC arrays like Israeli AEWC developed for Italy. It could theoritically incorporate small side looking radar panels, but yes the coverage would be narrow and the tracking range limited

That is a definite possibility. That said, if the Netra set can somehow be fitted on the Falcon, then that is also worth considering for the Netra Mk 1A.

 

[Abs29]

At that point, you may as well design a new purpose-built aircraft. If you elongate the fuselage, increase the wingspan, change the engines, etc, you have already gone a good part of the way for a new aircraft. At that point, a new aircraft tends to be better than a compromise modification.

No quite there have been rather some successful efforts to extend fuselage for regional jets in past which have indeed succeeded. Granted it can't be extended carelessly but I presume it can be done.

 

[Avatar]

It is a great Idea, but it will take TATA another 5-6 years to design anything of similar capability to the Predator. Then it will be another couple of years for testing and validating. India's needs are urgent and I am not sure it can wait that long. Best to fill in the gap with import for now and work on the next generation technology by borrowing some ideas from the Predator.

 

[sishir]

Air force should not push it out. Being produced by Indian Tata it must support to deliver some quantities as per air force needs and the innovation continue and the production line also runs so that at a latter years this product would mature and our armed forces will have it's own UVA.

 

[VedantaKiran]

Th IAF has wasted crores on aircraft mostly spending more on maintenance for the aircraft.

If the TASL Grob can be used even in a limited way, it will go a long way to encourage domestic product and further innovation.

Foreign countries in the past have shown their true colours only during a conflict. So if there is a war with Pakistan, the American stand will be suspect. Hopefully this is factored in.