Why India Did Not Choose High-Performance EJ200 Variant Over F414 for Tejas Mk2 and AMCA Mk1, Lower Cost and Supply Chain Were Main Factors

Why India Did Not Choose High-Performance EJ200 Variant Over F414 for Tejas Mk2 and AMCA Mk1, Lower Cost and Supply Chain Were Main Factors


India's selection of the engine to power its future fighter aircraft, the Tejas Mk2 and the initial version of the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA Mk1), involved a significant choice between leading global powerplants.

An advanced version of the Eurojet EJ200 engine, known as the EJ230, was a strong competitor but ultimately did not secure the contract.

The EJ230 engine, derived from the EJ200 that powers the Eurofighter Typhoon jets used by several European air forces, was specifically developed to offer increased power. It generates approximately 102 kilonewtons (kN) of thrust with afterburner (wet thrust) and around 72 kN without (dry thrust).

These specifications positioned the EJ230 within the performance range sought by the Indian Air Force (IAF) for its next generation of indigenous fighter jets, making it a notable option during the selection process.

Despite demonstrating attributes like a high thrust-to-weight ratio and potential for future upgrades, the EJ230 was passed over in favour of the F414 engine, manufactured by the American company General Electric (GE).

The GE F414 is a well-established engine, powering prominent international aircraft such as the US Navy's F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and Sweden's Saab Gripen E fighter.

Key factors influenced India's decision towards the GE F414. Reports suggest that GE's proposal was more cost-effective. Furthermore, the F414 comes with a well-established global supply chain and logistical support network.

Crucially, GE's offer was seen as better aligning with India's 'Make in India' initiative, presenting favourable terms for industrial partnerships and enabling domestic production of the engine, which were decisive elements in the selection.

The Eurojet consortium, which includes Rolls-Royce and MTU Aero Engines, also proposed technology transfer and co-development, but the overall package from GE, particularly regarding cost and timely delivery frameworks, proved more persuasive.

The decision represents a missed opportunity for the Eurojet consortium to gain entry into the expanding Indian military aviation market with the EJ230. Securing the contract would have introduced European engine technology into India's fighter development ecosystem, potentially leading to collaborative efforts on developing even more powerful engines for future aircraft requirements.

With the specific variant GE F414-IN20 now confirmed for the Tejas Mk2 and the initial batches of the AMCA Mk1, India has opted for a mature, globally operated, and combat-tested engine system. This choice is expected to streamline the development and induction phases of these critical defence programs.

However, this may not be the end of the road for Eurojet in India. As India progresses with the AMCA program, particularly for later variants, or looks towards developing sixth-generation fighter capabilities, the need for different engine solutions might arise.

The EJ230 or newer engines from the European consortium could potentially re-enter consideration for future Indian defence projects, possibly with a revised and more competitive offer based on lessons learned from this round.

In the meantime, the EJ230 remains a capable engine available for other international fighter programs and potential upgrades for existing Eurofighter fleets.
 
This engine would have been much better; even now it’s not too late. We can still get a double whammy: EJ200 Stage-2 with thrust-vectoring nozzle and EF-Typhoon Tranche 5 LTE with reasonable TOT if we want to. In fact, we won’t get another better time. The EU is in shambles; there is no EJ-230 engine as far as I know.
 
EJ230 engine lost on L1 bidder to GE, that's what I was saying. Some comedian jokers say it was HAL who selected the engine. One who meets the criteria will win, and not HAL, who is going to dictate the selection of the engine for the indigenous fighter jet project. Some comedians spread lies. Even in the GE-404 deal, IAF wanted GE to supply engines and component spares from the US factory. This is the reality. Anyway, European technology can still power future fighter jet projects like AMCA, TEDBF, and Tejas MK2 by winning the upcoming 110 kN thrust engine development project, and revenge can be taken by giving a better offer compared to the GE offer.
 
Yes AMCA first version will have GE F414 powerplant.
The production version of AMCA was being planned with a joint developed 110kN engine in partnership with RR Safran or GE.
M88 Eurojet and GE enhanced 414 can be considered for co development further.
 
HAL is planing to have GE manufactured in India with 80percent TOT .Let us go ahead and this is powerplant for TejasMk2.
For AMCA Mk1 we have selected 95kn GE414 .Better we go for joint development of 110kN improved version of this engine in colaboration with GE with TOT and IP Rights.
It is a reliable engine and no need to sudden changeover to any other European engine.
We can think of any new partner for 120 to130kn new advanced engine for a future 6th generation fighter with high-tech feature.
 
This engine would have been much better; even now it’s not too late. We can still get a double whammy: EJ200 Stage-2 with thrust-vectoring nozzle and EF-Typhoon Tranche 5 LTE with reasonable TOT if we want to. In fact, we won’t get another better time. The EU is in shambles; there is no EJ-230 engine as far as I know.
You may want to look up what a double whammy is...out of context here and actually counter to the argument you are making. Another thing, you seem to forget is that eurojet consortium has four nations and so it's possible its supply may be held hostage to the political leanings of their govts. Germany being one of them, makes it a very risky proposition if past record is anything to go by.
 
You may want to look up what a double whammy is...out of context here and actually counter to the argument you are making. Another thing, you seem to forget is that eurojet consortium has four nations and so it's possible its supply may be held hostage to the political leanings of their govts. Germany being one of them, makes it a very risky proposition if past record is anything to go by.
Yes, it's risky to go with a European supplier, perhaps except France. Germany has a record of being a very unreliable supplier. When they can scuttle a tank engine deal, what prevents them from scuttling an aircraft engine deal?
 
Compare Snecma M88 (75 kN Thrust) with EJ230 (105 kN thrust). Ha ha ha. The M88 has been there for 25 years now without any new engine from Safran. HAL please do not provide your AERDC facility to Safran.
 
You may want to look up what a double whammy is...out of context here and actually counter to the argument you are making. Another thing, you seem to forget is that eurojet consortium has four nations and so it's possible its supply may be held hostage to the political leanings of their govts. Germany being one of them, makes it a very risky proposition if past record is anything to go by.
Same applies to USA.
 
Nobody has an answer, if GE pulls the plug on the supplies, like they did on the GE404. Someone in the engine selection team has ended up putting all fruits in one basket. Hope our Mk2 and AMCA are not hampered for engine supply delays.
 
EJ230 engine lost on L1 bidder to GE, that's what I was saying. Some comedian jokers say it was HAL who selected the engine. One who meets the criteria will win, and not HAL, who is going to dictate the selection of the engine for the indigenous fighter jet project. Some comedians spread lies. Even in the GE-404 deal, IAF wanted GE to supply engines and component spares from the US factory. This is the reality. Anyway, European technology can still power future fighter jet projects like AMCA, TEDBF, and Tejas MK2 by winning the upcoming 110 kN thrust engine development project, and revenge can be taken by giving a better offer compared to the GE offer.
Still there are some Dalals of Private Companies here, who try to blame everything on HAL.
 
In simple terms, the Govt forced HAL to go with an inferior engine because GE was able to manipulate the tender by being the lowest bidder, and the Govt happily agreed, seeing they had to spend less money, forgetting that putting all fruits in a single basket can be disastrous in longer wars.
 
Same applies to USA.
Same applies to everyone. But the thing is that UK, Germany and Italy are directly influenced by US as well. So if we go for US, we have to deal with just US. But if we deal with EJ, we have to deal with US for sure, and then we have to deal with these countries. That's why India prefers France now and used to prefer Russia.
 
Compare Snecma M88 (75 kN Thrust) with EJ230 (105 kN thrust). Ha ha ha. The M88 has been there for 25 years now without any new engine from Safran. HAL please do not provide your AERDC facility to Safran.
And yet Dassault gets more export orders then Eurojet 🤣🤣🤣
 
In simple terms, the Govt forced HAL to go with an inferior engine because GE was able to manipulate the tender by being the lowest bidder, and the Govt happily agreed, seeing they had to spend less money, forgetting that putting all fruits in a single basket can be disastrous in longer wars.
It is a tender. Being the lowest bidder while meeting the requirements is like the standard rule. How is that manipulation?
 
Both GE and European suppliers are not dependable. Only in relative terms can one be termed better than the other. European nations think they are the upholders of human rights, communal harmony, etc. If one reads history, every European nation has violated what they preach now to others from Asia, Africa, the Middle East, and are the worst perpetrators of atrocities on innocents by colonizing various geographies. Intolerance was inbuilt in the colonies they looted and captured.
 
And yet Dassault gets more export orders then Eurojet 🤣🤣🤣
EJ 2000 has sold more than twice the number of M88. If not for Germany vetoing Typhoon sales to Saudi Arabia [which they have now backtracked on], which put off other Arab companies buying, EJ2000 sales would be even more.
 
75 kN engine is just (narrowly) suitable for 4th gen fighter jets. We can nowhere reach near 5th generation fighter jet with a limited knowledge of just having a 75 kN engine. Forget about 6th gen fighter jets. How can a country which does not even have a working engine of 80-85 kN, can even think of 5th gen fighter jet partnership programme with India. Maybe another chor business.

The fact is Safran doesn't have an 82+ kN engine. So India should not go into partnership with Safran for high thrust engines.
 
EJ 2000 has sold more than twice the number of M88. If not for Germany vetoing Typhoon sales to Saudi Arabia [which they have now backtracked on], which put off other Arab companies buying, EJ2000 sales would be even more.
How can a country which does not even have a working engine of 80-85 kN, can even think of 5th Gen fighter jet partnership programme with India?
 
How can a country which does not even have a working engine of 80-85 kN, can even think of 5th Gen fighter jet partnership programme with India?
I was pointing out a few things to Akshat. You have completely changed the narrative. You should ask that question to RR or DRDO/HAL/GTRE, not me.
 
If they had offered complete tot for EJ230, we should have completely gone with it. Sometimes this L1 model sucks.
 
We must use Indian-made jet engines instead of importing them, so procurement and spare parts will be easily available in the future.
 
Yes, it's risky to go with a European supplier, perhaps except France. Germany has a record of being a very unreliable supplier. When they can scuttle a tank engine deal, what prevents them from scuttling an aircraft engine deal?
Boss, India wanted to place orders for a tank engine which had been out of production for a decade. You can't sit on files for years together and expect the OEM to keep paying salaries to keep a productionn line open for orders which may or may not materialize.
 

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