Why India Preferred TKMS over Navantia for P-75(I) Submarine Project, Proven Stealth and AIP Tech Key Factors

India's selection of ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS) over Spain's Navantia for the Project 75-India (P75I) submarine program has generated considerable interest within defence circles. This decision underscores India's focus on advanced stealth technology and enhanced maritime capabilities.

TKMS is offering a next-generation submarine design featuring a faceted hull, incorporating Low Observable (LO) characteristics. This design represents a significant advancement in stealth technology, effectively making it a fifth-generation diesel-electric attack submarine (SSK).

The unique hull shape is designed to deflect sonar signals, significantly reducing the submarine's acoustic and radar signatures, thereby making it more difficult to detect by contemporary anti-submarine warfare (ASW) systems. This innovative approach distinguishes it from traditional submarine designs.

This advanced SSK class, often termed the “stealth version,” integrates state-of-the-art technologies across its propulsion, sensor, and combat systems.

Germany's own order for these submarines, with the first unit currently under construction at TKMS's Kiel shipyard, further validates the design's technological maturity and reliability.

Several key factors influenced India's choice of TKMS over Navantia, including TKMS's proven experience in delivering submarines equipped with air-independent propulsion (AIP) systems. AIP technology is crucial for extending underwater endurance, a critical operational requirement.

TKMS has also tailored its design to meet India's specific operational needs, providing a strategic advantage in the Indian Ocean region, where stealth and extended submerged operations are paramount.

AIP systems allow submarines to stay submerged for longer periods, increasing their operational effectiveness and reducing their vulnerability. While Navantia also offered a competitive bid, TKMS's demonstrated expertise in AIP and stealth technology appears to have been decisive.

The P75I selection also aligns with India's emphasis on self-reliance in defence production. TKMS has committed to transferring technology, which will bolster India's indigenous submarine construction capabilities.

The submarines will be built at Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Limited (MDL) in collaboration with TKMS. This partnership ensures that India not only acquires advanced naval assets but also develops the expertise necessary for future domestic submarine development.

This decision is viewed by defence analysts as a demonstration of India's strategic foresight in naval warfare. The addition of these advanced submarines to the Indian Navy's fleet will significantly improve India's maritime security posture and enhance its power projection capabilities within the region. This acquisition strengthens India's position at the forefront of naval technology and reinforces its strategic deterrence capabilities.

 

[sanket]

Whatever the choice, ink the deal earliest. It will take 6 to 8 years to deliver the first sub.

 

[Joydeep Ghosh]

It's a wrong decision to select TKMS over Navantia because, first, the TKMS U212/214 is made using 2010s technology, whereas the Navantia S80+ is based on late 2020s tech. Next, the price has gone up from ₹40,000 to ₹75,000 crore. Also, the requirement of P75I specifies it as a 3,000-ton submarine, whereas the U212/214 is 1,800 tons. This means the submarines will need to be enlarged, and their AIP also needs to be enlarged. Remember, curtailing the size is easy, but enlarging is difficult. A sample is the LCA Navy, which was a bit larger than the LCA AF. The DRDO/ADA/ADE couldn't quite do it properly on time and only managed to customize it for the Navy after foreign help.

 

[Hari Sud]

Remember that the German political system is as bad as American in defence supplies. they can sabotage spare supply, technology anytime.

 

[Ayyadurai Namasivayam]

It's a wrong decision to select TKMS over Navantia

Germany is the one of the leading country in submarine technology

 

[Joydeep Ghosh]

Germany is the one of the leading country in submarine technology

TKMS is about to file for bankruptcy, this was a political decision to save it

 

[Anant]

the price has gone up from ₹40,000 to ₹75,000 crore.

The Rs. 40,000 crore price tag dates back a very long time. Considering inflation, price escalations, and the like, the price will increase. I am not saying Rs. 70,000 crore for six submarines isn't ridiculously expensive; it most certainly is. However, that is just how these things go.

 

[Ayyadurai Namasivayam]

TKMS is about to file for bankruptcy, this was a political decision to save it

Political decision is always there. The govt has right to make.

 

[ramdas]

TKMS is unsure of the AIP technology. Can its engine match with the French subs pump jet. India was trying hard to get this stealth technology but in vain

 

[beencensured]

Germany is the one of the leading country in submarine technology

Yes, but they are unwilling to give their leading technology but are developing an experimental submarine for India that it would never use. IF one does not understand the folly in that then they have forgotten of MTU engines non-supply and scorpene submarines leaks.

 

[beencensured]

TKMS is unsure of the AIP technology. Can its engine match with the French subs pump jet. India was trying hard to get this stealth technology but in vain

Germany is the pied piper leading India to nowhere, unwilling to part with technology it uses, but insist on experiment design be financed by us that it will never use, so if any trouble with craft, then our headache as an experimental design..

 

[beencensured]

The Rs. 40,000 crore price tag dates back a very long time. Considering inflation, price escalations, and the like, the price will increase. I am not saying Rs. 70,000 crore for six submarines isn't ridiculously expensive; it most certainly is. However, that is just how these things go.

It is not worth as not a nuclear sub, nor there is 100% ToT. Some offsets are given in every deal.

 

[ramdas]

Germany is the pied piper leading India to nowhere, unwilling to part with technology it uses, but insist on experiment design be financed by us that it will never use, so if any trouble with craft, then our headache as an experimental design..

Let's us see where it ends. The new German government can cancel the deal as Scholz not in power anymore.

 

[INDIAN]

We should for higher numbers at least 10-12, just 5-6 is not enough.

 

[kumar]

Hope Indian Navy absorbs this technology and does not depend on importing SSK in future.

 

[Anant]

We should for higher numbers at least 10-12, just 5-6 is not enough.

A decent step would be to speed up work on the Project 76 submarines, increase that class to 12 boats, and maybe take an extra 3 options on Project 75I just in case of delays.

 

[Anant]

It is not worth as not a nuclear sub, nor there is 100% ToT. Some offsets are given in every deal.

Sir, nuclear submarines are far, far more expensive than that. Moreover, we will be co-developing the design along with TKMS, and we will get both the design and the shared IPR for the design and most pf the design elements.. That would allow us to use design elements for our future projects or even to build and export more submarines to the design ourselves.

 

[Anant]

Let's us see where it ends. The new German government can cancel the deal as Scholz not in power anymore.

The new German government isn't comprised of idiots. They know full well what the deal represents in terms of defence partnerships and for TKMS' future.

 

[Enforcer]

TKMS is about to file for bankruptcy, this was a political decision to save it

Sikorsky was about to File for Bankruptcy, does not mean Sikorsky helicopter are bad. In fact they are the best in the world.

 

[Enforcer]

I am very happy for India as I prefer German subs more but very sad for Navantia. Navantia actually has a good product. I like competition worldwide and especially enjoy when a small country can build something so complicated. I hate when there are only two options like either you're American or Russian. I hope Navantia gets more orders from a different country.

 

[beencensured]

Sir, nuclear submarines are far, far more expensive than that. Moreover, we will be co-developing the design along with TKMS, and we will get both the design and the shared IPR for the design and most pf the design elements.. That would allow us to use design elements for our future projects or even to build and export more submarines to the design ourselves.

The problem if the design has a flaw then what do we do? Wait longer as an experimental sub. Further since they will not be using the sub OEM what would be the incentive to fix. Seeing French scorpene submarine cannot expect before 2040. Worse is that Germany can change their mind.

 

[Sandeep]

It’s great that Germany has been selected but now we have to negotiate on the price, ToT and amount of local production is allowed. This project has already been delayed by over a decade so we need to make sure that we get the maximum amount of technology and production that’s possible. This project will be expensive but we have no other choice. This will also help us in creating a new ecosystem and manufacturing opportunities which will encourage more FDI and business opportunities and provide more jobs.

 

[PKS]

Order another 6 from L & T so that the time line is much reduced and that IN gets at least a dozen of these subs against the original 6 proposed order in the same time span. It will also work out cheaper in the long run.

 

[Anant]

The problem if the design has a flaw then what do we do? Wait longer as an experimental sub. Further since they will not be using the sub OEM what would be the incentive to fix. Seeing French scorpene submarine cannot expect before 2040. Worse is that Germany can change their mind.

Sir, the Type 214NG is almost certainly going to be designed in a similar manner to how Germany designed the initial Type 214s for Portugal and the Dolphin-class for Israel: Take an existing design (the Type 214 in this case), enlarge it, scale up internal subsystems, and then incorporate newer technology from other submarines (the Type 212A and Type 212CD in this case). In some ways, the Type 214NG seems to be the next major export offering from Germany, following the Type 209 and Type 214 designs.

Now, Germany is very definitely using the Type 212A, and they plan to scale up a fair bit with the Type 212CD, so they do have a stake to see that the Type 214NG works well. Moreover, with the baseline Type 214 design now considered aging against stuff like the Scorpene, S80 Plus, KSS-III, and Chinese Type 039A export designs, Germany does need a foot in to ensure they maintain a presence in the market, which will be necessary for them as a number of Type 209 users and other nations are coming up for replacing their old submarines.

While I do agree that there are risks with the design, and while I also agree that the submarines are going to be very expensive, I don't think the Germans will want to back down either, considering that this would ruin their reputation as an arms exporter, and would leave them with a half-cooked design that not many nations would be willing to try out. In our case, we stand to gain more since we also get to co-develop part of the design, we get the design itself (similar to how South Korea and Turkey got the Type 209 and Type 214 designs), and as far as I have been able to find, we also get to export Type 214NG boats to interested nations.

 

[Anant]

Order another 6 from L & T so that the time line is much reduced and that IN gets at least a dozen of these subs against the original 6 proposed order in the same time span. It will also work out cheaper in the long run.

Um, that would not be cheaper, but would be faster. However, what you suggest cannot happen, legally speaking. L&T lost the bid, so if you now give them these submarines to build, there will be accusations that L&T sabotaged their bid to get a contract regardless.

You can give some other yard a few orders (not that this should be done, in all honesty, given that our major shipyards are all moving towards specializing in certain types of warships), but not L&T. Not in this case.