Why MoD Rejected Uttam AESA Radar for Rafale M Jets Despite Having Integration Plans for MiG-29K and TEDBF

should have gone for Uttam AESA Radar , same mistake done like Mirage-2000 opportunity is there with Indigenous option, Apart From Astra Family IN can Integrate Brahmos-NG , Rudram Family in Future oh & India already paid ISE charges why France cant add one more to it why Dassault want heavy price for Just One Upgrade Just to Milk more money ..........??? In Mid-Life upgrade Bharat Must go for Indigenous GaN AESA Radar .
Indian Army/Navy/Airforce hate locally developed components. One reason is the refusal of the OEM to work with Indian hardware. Advantage is that Indian missiles, torpedo and bombs could be easily integrated. So why did MOD fall for the imported one is most likely warranty on the planes.
 
My question is: they recently announced that Rafale M price is significantly lower before the visit of A. Doval to France. What is the price tag per aircraft then?
No one can answer it right now. Wait till the final deal is signed. Any numbers till then are just speculative. What can be said is that this price is lowest among all the options we had.
 
This has been the requirement of MRFA after PM is back from visiting Putin.
So far the AoN for MRFA hasn’t been released. The requirements will come in the RFP, after the AoN. PM in fact included clauses where the plane has to be fully operational and price can’t be increased after the deal after he met Putin, since he came to know that Putin plans to increase the price to 1 billion usd per plane for Mig35 after winning the deal, along with development costs for making it fully ready.
 
How many Times Mirage-2000 Fleet was upgraded ...........??? according to your Logic Mirage have been upgraded 3 Times Not even PESA Radar have been Integrated
Software upgrades to integrate different weapons etc , EW suit , Electronics & Radar

One mid-time upgrade of Jet cost the same as a brand new jet
 
Indian Army/Navy/Airforce hate locally developed components. One reason is the refusal of the OEM to work with Indian hardware. Advantage is that Indian missiles, torpedo and bombs could be easily integrated. So why did MOD fall for the imported one is most likely warranty on the planes.
WhAP is Great Example , Got Export order , Dreaming about Stryker
 
And when would that be? My guess is late 2000s? The Thales statement came around 2014.

And did Thales say that this is a ~840 TRM radar and is the one being used in Rafales? I am sure they didn’t.
You can count the TRMs on your own, or rely on others who have already done it before.

Which statement? Where's the official link to this statement ?

TRM Count from Official Image > "Will have in future" Statements
 
about 15 years before, the cost in Indian Indigenou products used to be below 10% as that of US but now the cost is less than just 50%.
This increased cost to 5 folds, is the crucial reason behind all these hurdles.
Our R&D people learned how to expoit public tax money by increase their cost projections.
Probably this is the reason behind the rejection.
DRDO must come up with new proposals to set back cost calcutaions in a same way, how used to be 15 years before. If it is done so, then you will never find rejection of these kind of changes because of cost factors.
 
Spares... this is where the foreign def suppliers make huge profits. 2000% or more. The Indian babus couldn't care less. Everything is " nice to have ".. not need to have. They can't be bothered about precious fx costs outflow. They buy this and that, 101 models of weapons and then spares provisioning for tens of thousands of parts is a "deal" with their buddy overseas middlemen agents.
It is a racket that never seem to stop bleeding the country.
 
So far the AoN for MRFA hasn’t been released. The requirements will come in the RFP, after the AoN. PM in fact included clauses where the plane has to be fully operational and price can’t be increased after the deal after he met Putin, since he came to know that Putin plans to increase the price to 1 billion usd per plane for Mig35 after winning the deal, along with development costs for making it fully ready.
Following are the clauses added after PM's visit to Russia
MOD made a policy switch to buy as many as 114 Multi-Role Fighter Aircraft (MRFA)

only from a vendor who is ready to set up a manufactuting unit in India for the entire aircraft.

It also wants transfer of technology and full production in India in a joint venture with a local partner.

Will Dassault do anything above, only when somebody brings a production line to India it is possible.

 
NOT AT ALL POSSIBLE to convert existing jet to another OEM of engines in reality!!!
Rafale tech demonstrator was roled out in 1986, M88 wasn’t available till 1990, until then Rafale flew with twin GE F404 engines, even GE F414 engine has the exact same dimensions as F404, so F414 engine is a direct fit in Rafale, but the air intake requirement is bit different.
 
Key question is when will be the French deliver the Rafale Ms…I forecast late 2028 or mid 2029, if not 2030, given their production backlogs…

Bharat has put itself in this situation as we don’t plan well and we have HAL, DRDO and even IAF, who have unrealistic needs and also want least price…Unless the procurement process and above all cultural mindset is not addressed, we will keeep getting screwed…I don’t blame the French, as they know Bharat has no good options….

Also i speculate cost of Rafale Ms, north of $250M per jet and best case around $225M - but we shall see once contact is signed…
 
You can count the TRMs on your own, or rely on others who have already done it before.

Which statement? Where's the official link to this statement ?

TRM Count from Official Image > "Will have in future" Statements
I already said in my last comment that all the TRM counts are from an image posted way back. You have not yet provided the official statement of Thales that says that there is any 840 TRM radar. First you provide source. I have already provided mine many times and will provide again once you show me your proof.
 
Bro we already have 36+26=62 , we dont have 62 we have only 36 second after signing the deal it will take almost 4 to 5 years to deliver all 26 Rafale M by the Time they test & certify
I said that when we get the 26 naval rafale jets we will have 62 jets. But for that many planes we will have commonality with the technology, spares, LRU, maintenance etc so it’s a significant number to make it worth setting up the support infrastructure. Once it’s time for its mid-life upgrade then we can install our indigenous Uttam radar or a similar or better variant of it.
 
Agreed, some older platforms might benefit more from the upgrade. But Uttam is very very close to being fielded. Timelines of a French GaN fire control radar is farther away than Indian efforts. This is one area French lose their edge doing everything themselves, compared to a consortium approach taken by Euro fighter.
The same idea had the Rafale developed with an AESA well before the Eurofighter, and coming in with a better all rounded package at lower cost. Not dealing with other countries inputs and desires has its ups and downs.
 
I already said in my last comment that all the TRM counts are from an image posted way back. You have not yet provided the official statement of Thales that says that there is any 840 TRM radar. First you provide source. I have already provided mine many times and will provide again once you show me your proof.
Thales has never stated the TRM count of the RBE-2 till date, neither 800 nor 1000. Radar manufactures seldom announce such things.

What we have is an image of a production model equipped with the RBE-2 AESA. From that we can count the TRMs.

The image isn't from 2000s also as you claim. Here's an article from 2012 which covers the handover ceremony, where the nose-cone of the Rafale was opened to show the radar. Since then this very image used world over as an official source. At the end of the article it's clearly written when that specific image was taken.

 
Thales has never stated the TRM count of the RBE-2 till date, neither 800 nor 1000. Radar manufactures seldom announce such things.

What we have is an image of a production model equipped with the RBE-2 AESA. From that we can count the TRMs.

The image isn't from 2000s also as you claim. Here's an article from 2012 which covers the handover ceremony, where the nose-cone of the Rafale was opened to show the radar. Since then this very image used world over as an official source. At the end of the article it's clearly written when that specific image was taken.

I have already shown official Thales statement regarding this. But you claimed Thales showed that the radar has 840 TRMs. You didn’t say back then anything about counting or photo or anything. So why did you lie?
 

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