India May Consider Russian Su-57 as Stopgap to Counter China-Pak 5th Gen Jets as AMCA Still Far Away

India's pursuit of its own fifth-generation fighter jet, the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), is a testament to the nation's growing defence ambitions. This indigenously designed aircraft promises cutting-edge capabilities like stealth technology, supercruise, and advanced weaponry.

However, the AMCA project faces potential delays, particularly in the development of a suitable engine, which could take six to seven years according to current estimates. This delay has opened a window of vulnerability for India as regional rivals China and Pakistan forge ahead with their own fifth-generation fighter programs.

China has already deployed the Chengdu J-20, and is actively developing other advanced fighter jets like the FC-31. Pakistan is also expected to acquire sophisticated fighter aircraft in collaboration with China. This evolving regional threat landscape has prompted India to re-evaluate its options and consider interim solutions to maintain its air superiority.

One potential solution gaining traction is the acquisition of Russia's Sukhoi Su-57 fighter jet. Initially, India had reservations about the Su-57 due to concerns about its engine and other technical aspects. However, recent upgrades, particularly the integration of the Izdelie 30 (A51) engine, have reportedly addressed many of these issues. This new engine significantly enhances the Su-57's thrust, fuel efficiency, and stealth capabilities.

The Su-57 boasts advanced radar-absorbent materials and a reduced radar cross-section, making it a formidable stealth aircraft. With these improvements and its full operational status within the Russian Aerospace Forces, the Su-57 is now viewed as a viable option to bridge the gap until the AMCA is ready for deployment.

Procuring the Su-57 offers several advantages for India. Firstly, it allows the Indian Air Force (IAF) to quickly acquire a fifth-generation fighter jet to counter the J-20 and other advanced threats. Secondly, the Su-57 shares similarities with India's existing fleet of Sukhoi Su-30MKI fighters, potentially easing the transition in terms of maintenance, logistics, and pilot training.

While the AMCA remains a crucial long-term goal for India's defense industry, the Su-57 presents a compelling stopgap solution. By acquiring the Su-57, India can ensure its air power remains robust and capable of addressing the evolving challenges in the region. This strategic move underscores India's commitment to maintaining its defense edge in a rapidly changing geopolitical environment.

 

[R. Singh]

Good ,since F-35A is not meant to us we should buy 90+ SU-57 and 90 SU-75 with critical spare parts making plants in India in JV with Russia !

 

[kingofhearts12]

I can't understand how Russians will supply to us since they are at war. They couldn't give SU30 to Armenia and S400 to India

 

[Anant]

Whoever wrote this article missed a bunch of points, or simply decided to ignore them:

1. The indigenous aircraft engine program is for AMCA Mk 2, and maybe later airframes of AMCA Mk 1. The initial airframes will be powered by F414 engines, and looking at the fact that production is set to begin soon, we won't have delays in that.

2. The Su-57 has undergone some improvements since the early days, but most of the issues that led to India's withdrawal in the first place still remain.

3. A small number of Su-57s are just going to be another maintenance headache. Just because the Su-30MKI and Su-57 were both designed by the Sukhoi design bureau doesn't mean they suddenly share parts.

4. From a geopolitical perspective, it is next to impossible for us to go and sign up a major arms deal with Russia and continue to maintain that we are truly neutral. The same geopolitical challenges also mean that Indian-ising the Su-57 (in a manner similar to how we Indian-ised the Su-30K to the Su-30MKI) is pretty much impossible unless we get a production line in India under full Indian control. That isn't going to happen either, as Russia will not cede that level of control.

5. The Su-57 is already facing a fair number of challenges. The fighter is too complex to build in large numbers, and Russia pushed back orders for the Su-57 in favour of more Su-35s even before they invaded Ukarine.

So, no. The Su-57 is not a viable solution for the IAF.

 

[tipoo2]

If the next batch is truly the Su-57M with modernized avionics and the Al51 that was always intended for it (the Al41 it's using right now was not designed for IR stealth), it's at least worth a second look. Worst case maybe other firms in the competition try harder knowing we're taking a second look and that may take the order.

It's likely the worst on stealth of the fifth gen, as will invariably come up, but I'm also growing suspicious of anyone saying it's only the RCS of a clean rafale or F18. First off, those can't do anything without external munitions and most likely fuel stores, and those are almost a worst case for stealth bouncing radar signals between them. Even on that point, a clean Rafale or F18 can't shoot at anything, unless with the gun (so basically, not at all and they'll always have external stores).

Two, no fourth gen jet paid as much attention to planform alignment, nor have the honeycomb substructure and as extensive use of radar eating materials.

So anyways, point being. Worth at least a second look to see how far they've come in a decade, and maybe we can turn around our Su-30 lines to produce it and have it as quick as possible. The Rafale also has years of backlog now unlike how we found them with an empty line. And just getting to AMCA MK1 squadrons feels to me as if that'll no doubt go till 2040 with our record, so an interim fighter and gaining operational experience on stealth could help with inputs to that too and cover some deterrence until then. We'd also no doubt use our own Virupaksha radar on it as Russian production of AESA seems highly limited to the Su-57 itself.

 

[tipoo2]

So, no. The Su-57 is not a viable solution for the IAF.

Fwiw they just completed making a large expansion for production of the Su-57M, which in Russian fighter development is usually when the fighter is actually baked getting the "modernized" stamp. The M should include the AL51 and updated avionics for delivery in 2025 at higher production, and further reduced dependancies.

We'll of course have to see if this all pans out as true. Also, the US-India defence cooperation bill if passed would give us a more permanent CAATSA waiver to arm against China...

 

[tipoo2]

I now wonder if we should have stuck to FGFA, to think we were going to order 214 of them and have had no major fighter acquisitions since, and the Su-57 may be the least stealthy of the fifth gen but the FGFA would have at least been this plus the some 43 improvements India was requesting. We should have at least been getting them by now, while AMCA probably won't be squadroning up until late 2030 or 2040 when China is not just 1000+ J20s deep but also probably having more sixth gen fighters than we have fifth even by then again.

 

[DB_NE_Guy]

Su-57 is not an answer to 5th gen jet requirement. It more of a temporary solution as a stopgap for depleting Sq. of IAF ( if purchased). I don't think Russians have the required expertise to produce true 5th gen jet fighters. Recent footage of crashed Su-Okhotnik lays it bare. What kind of 5th gen planes has it's external body full of rivets.? What those planes can do is to mimic like 5th gen jets.

 

[sanket]

I have already said Bharat may Buy atleast 2 to 3 sqad of Su-57 & Super sukhoi may get some Tech from Su-57 too, second Bharat may buy Su-57 But will never buy F-35 .

 

[DB_NE_Guy]

Whoever wrote this article missed a bunch of points, or simply decided to ignore them:

lemme also add, due to sanction, russia won't be able to mass produce it.
there is possible caatsa sanction on India if new weapon deal is made.

i believe, Russia doesn't have expertise to make true stealth 5th gen planes. recent footage of Okhotnik shoot down over Ukraine tells it all. despite stealth like shape, it's body is full of rivets.

 

[kunitesh]

It will be a good and cost effective option to opt for 54 Su57 and 54 Rafale F4 instead of 114 fighters for MRFA . This will add 5-Gen experience to IAF and also add more punch through Rafales. If AMCA is successful then we will not buy any fighters in future from other countries and MRFA would be the last

 

[vamkris]

India shall immediately buy 36 su57 and 36 rafael f4 and then work with Saab and rafeael to make super rafael and super gripen indigenously along with super sukhoi
India can use engine from Safran or al51 from russia for it's AmCA or tejas mk1A or tejas mk2 projects

 

[Satya Dev]

I think like they ended the MMRCA circus by ordering 2 sqdns of Rafales, IAF will end the ongoing MRFA circus by ordering 1 or 2 sqdns more and then start a new FGFA circus! Rather than putting all eggs in AMCA basket, it will be better to have a FGFA bird in hand than waiting for the 2 AMCA birds in the bush!

 

[NSR]

First of all India spent $350 millions on FGFA which is export version of SU-57 but Russians were very disrespectful towards IAF and MoD and did not even let them approach the prototypes.

Not worth reviving the FGFA again as it will be a new armament acquisition and certainly bring sanctions from USA CAATSA legislation.
Not worth the effort when India is trying to get into the world wide supply-chain businesses to develop its own economical systems and infrastructures.

Just concentrate on Indian fighter programs like Tejas IAs, Tejas MkII, TEDBF, AMCA Mk I, etc

India can import about 36 more Rafale F4s if the prices are reasonable.

 

[P.K Senapati]

India can go for two squadon '36 Super Rafal for immediate requirement'
Work on indigenious AMCA twin engined 5th Gen fighter.
Also in can work with Russia for joint development and production under make in India Su75 Russian 5th plus Gen single engined fighter involvivng private copanies for a stable aerocomponent ecosyste.

 

[abhinav srivastava]

Makes sense. We don't have any other 5- gen jet available. Provide Russia with inputs to improve the jet. Some AMCA tech Uttam GAN can be integrated in it. If Russia wishes to export their jets they can do it via prod line in India to avoid sanctions.
Since AMCA would be in production arond year 2040. We should buy few squadrons of SU57 before we induct AMCA.

 

[sanket]

Fwiw they just completed making a large expansion for production of the Su-57M, which in Russian fighter development is usually when the fighter is actually baked getting the "modernized" stamp. The M should include the AL51 and updated avionics for delivery in 2025 at higher production, and further reduced dependancies.

We'll of course have to see if this all pans out as true. Also, the US-India defence cooperation bill if passed would give us a more permanent CAATSA waiver to arm against China...

Nothing is Going to stop From Buying our own security related defence deal , If Bharat Think there is need of Su-57 Fighter jet they will Buy if Not they will not . it will depend on IAF , But I still think Instead of Buying old Mirage-2000 at 60 Mn$ Bharat should go for Brand new Stealth fighter jet

 

[Rajesh]

We should buy 90 Su-57 ans well as 90 Su-75 as US fighters are not for India !

 

[kurtwallis wallis]

Nothing is Going to stop From Buying our own security related defence deal , If Bharat Think there is need of Su-57 Fighter jet they will Buy if Not they will not . it will depend on IAF , But I still think Instead of Buying old Mirage-2000 at 60 Mn$ Bharat should go for Brand new Stealth fighter jet

KF21 Boramae is BEST option now....

 

[kurtwallis wallis]

I have already said Bharat may Buy atleast 2 to 3 sqad of Su-57 & Super sukhoi may get some Tech from Su-57 too, second Bharat may buy Su-57 But will never buy F-35 .

KF21 Boramae is BEST for now as SU57 means very severe sanctions on HAL and no GE engines or MQ9 drones would be delivered forever!!

 

[kurtwallis wallis]

India can go for two squadon '36 Super Rafal for immediate requirement'

Dassault will charges us $400 millions usd per Rafale F4.2 jet now.....

 

[मित्र]

Not worth reviving the FGFA again as it will be a new armament acquisition and certainly bring sanctions from USA CAATSA legislation.
Not worth the effort when India is trying to get into the world wide supply-chain businesses to develop its own economical systems and infrastructures.

So we will bow to some one sided western sanctions? Bhaad me jaye ye sanctions, India should maintain its decision autonomy at all cost.

 

[मित्र]

Su-57 is not an answer to 5th gen jet requirement. It more of a temporary solution as a stopgap for depleting Sq. of IAF ( if purchased). I don't think Russians have the required expertise to produce true 5th gen jet fighters. Recent footage of crashed Su-Okhotnik lays it bare. What kind of 5th gen planes has it's external body full of rivets.? What those planes can do is to mimic like 5th gen jets.

They shot down their own stealth drone by su-57 as experimental drone went out of control. Where it tells you its not 5th gen ?

 

[Akshat]

So anyways, point being. Worth at least a second look to see how far they've come in a decade, and maybe we can turn around our Su-30 lines to produce it and have it as quick as possible. The Rafale also has years of backlog now unlike how we found them with an empty line. And just getting to AMCA MK1 squadrons feels to me as if that'll no doubt go till 2040 with our record, so an interim fighter and gaining operational experience on stealth could help with inputs to that too and cover some deterrence until then. We'd also no doubt use our own Virupaksha radar on it as Russian production of AESA seems highly limited to the Su-57 itself.

Agree on AMCA.

As for Rafale, they have significant surplus production. I have given the numbers multiple times here. We can get more Rafale’s per year than Su57. So backlog is not even an issue here.

And coming to the plane’s quality. We all know how Russia lies about its super weapons. Even Russia isn’t ready to induct them in large numbers. And with the sanctions on chips and other semi conductors, it is unlikely that they can rival the computing power of western jets, which is of supreme importance in this age. And even as per Sukhoi’s own admission, it’s RCS is going to surpass Tejas and Rafale. Yes, Rafale or Tejas will have a higher RCS with missiles, but the EW system and better weapons will easily offset that gap.

 

[Akshat]

They shot down their own stealth drone by su-57 as experimental drone went out of control. Where it tells you its not 5th gen ?

The drone was supposed to be a ‘stealth’ drone. But the pics show it was full of rivets, which means there was no stealth. This in turn shows that Russians don’t have the technological know how to produce stealthy platforms.

 

[Akshat]

So we will bow to some one sided western sanctions? Bhaad me jaye ye sanctions, India should maintain its decision autonomy at all cost.

If we don’t, we won’t have any money to buy anything. So let’s not go there, especially for our enemies like Russia.

 

[Akshat]

Makes sense. We don't have any other 5- gen jet available. Provide Russia with inputs to improve the jet. Some AMCA tech Uttam GAN can be integrated in it. If Russia wishes to export their jets they can do it via prod line in India to avoid sanctions.
Since AMCA would be in production arond year 2040. We should buy few squadrons of SU57 before we induct AMCA.

No thanks. India is not a dumping ground for jets which no one in the world wants to buy. Russia is offering weapons which their own military is refusing to buy. Not interested.

 

[Rishith R]

lemme also add, due to sanction, russia won't be able to mass produce it.
there is possible caatsa sanction on India if new weapon deal is made.

i believe, Russia doesn't have expertise to make true stealth 5th gen planes. recent footage of Okhotnik shoot down over Ukraine tells it all. despite stealth like shape, it's body is full of rivets.

Okotnik was shot down by su57 while they were flying over UKRAINIAN airspace due to some malfunction in the drone/interference by Ukrainian EW. This tells all that you need to know, why weren't Ukrainian AD able to detect and shoot both of these down? Okhotnik has rivets because it is still undergoing testing and is not the final version just like the first instances of the su57

 

[Sunil Choan]

Buy 50 Su57

 

[Dr]

If it's stop gap arrangement & if IAF is of the view that SU57 can fullfill it's requirement then IAF may go for 54 SU57 but question is will Russia able to deliver this jets in time because of sanctions & also price factor & Indian enhancement will come into play