Indian Navy Favors TKMS-MDL Partnership for P75I Submarine Project Amid Upcoming German Chancellor's Visit to India Later This Month

The Indian Navy is poised to select the German-Indian partnership of ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS) and Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Limited (MDL) for the ambitious Project 75 India (P75I) submarine program. This decision comes as German Chancellor Olaf Scholz is scheduled to visit India later this month, accompanied by a delegation that includes TKMS CEO.

P75I aims to bolster India's underwater capabilities with six advanced diesel-electric submarines equipped with Air-Independent Propulsion (AIP) systems. These systems significantly enhance a submarine's stealth and endurance by allowing it to operate submerged for extended periods without needing to surface for air.

The Indian Navy has conducted rigorous field evaluation trials (FET) to assess competing bids. TKMS emerged as a strong contender by successfully demonstrating its mature AIP technology during these trials.

In contrast, the Spanish shipyard Navantia, partnered with Larsen & Toubro (L&T), is not expected to have an operational AIP submarine until 2026. This delay has proven to be a crucial factor in the Indian Navy's decision, as it prioritizes a proven and readily available AIP system to avoid potential program delays and technical risks.

"The requirement of a sea-proven AIP assumes significance since, unless sea-proven, safe and reliable for its designed functionality, the AIP system will expose the programme to significant technical and operational risks,” a senior source explained.

Beyond AIP, the TKMS submarines boast advanced stealth features and cutting-edge sensor and weapons systems. The project also emphasizes technology transfer, with the design being shared with MDL to enhance India's indigenous submarine production capabilities. This aligns with India's broader strategic partnership model for defence procurement, which aims to boost domestic manufacturing and reduce reliance on foreign suppliers.

The first submarine under this project is anticipated to be delivered seven years after the contract signing, with subsequent deliveries expected annually. The project is crucial for modernizing India's aging submarine fleet, which currently faces operational availability challenges.

While no formal agreement is expected during Chancellor Scholz's visit, the German delegation will likely receive updates on the selection process. The final decision rests with the Ministry of Defence, which will review the Indian Navy's recommendations.

This potential deal underscores the growing strategic partnership between India and Germany in the defence sector. It also highlights India's commitment to strengthening its naval capabilities amidst the evolving geopolitical landscape in the Indo-Pacific region.

 

[sanket]

Good News, but Sub also having some US components too, Germoan sub with proven AIP system & 60% ToT But nly thing is it will b dliver First sub after 7 years earlier it was said 5 years for First Sub after signing the Deal , needs to Fast track Follow-on for 3 additional kalvari class Subs it should b delivered before German subs delivered

 

[Bard of Anarchy]

1st sub will be launched by when? (Approx)

 

[Anant]

Good News, but Sub also having some US components too, Germoan sub with proven AIP system & 60% ToT But nly thing is it will b dliver First sub after 7 years earlier it was said 5 years for First Sub after signing the Deal , needs to Fast track Follow-on for 3 additional kalvari class Subs it should b delivered before German subs delivered

While the Germans are certainly ahead, and lead by quite a margin, nothing is confirmed so far other than that the Navy apparently is in favour of the German design.

Defence.in have made some pretty wild claims in the past, so I would say we wait for official news, and take this simply as an indication.

No offense intended to you. You are correct in your comment. I am only trying to add a bit more context.

 

[Anant]

1st sub will be launched by when? (Approx)

Let's see... Assuming the winner is announced and final negotiations are concluded by late 2025, that would mean a contract signing at the end of 2025 or early 2026. That means construction would start sometime in 2028, with launch of the boat sometime in 2030 (depending on when in 2028 construction begins), with comissioning following by 2033 pr so.

That is a very rough timeline. Once we get closer to contract signing, we should have more indications.

 

[Superpower Bharat]

So project 75i sorted... Now let's see what IAF will do with mmrca

 

[NSR]

Wonderful news to start the day.
Six P-75Is will start rolling out from 2032.
A long wait but worth the wait for German U-212+ stealth submarine.

India will be ordering 3 new Scorpenes with Indian AIPs and also upgrade of all 6 Indian Scorpenes with Indian AIPs so it is just too much work for MDL alone.

I recommend splitting P-75I contract between MDL and L&T 50:50 (3:3) and keep maintaining two boat yards for Indian future.
Once IN WDB P-76 comes on scene then L&T should get that contract to build the first 6 boats so the submarine work will be evenly loaded into two yards.

 

[Akshat]

So project 75i sorted... Now let's see what IAF will do with mmrca

They haven’t received AoN so far.

 

[Superpower Bharat]

They haven’t received AoN so far.

Who will initiate the AON... Is it GOI or airforce...

 

[Sandeep]

Who will initiate the AON... Is it GOI or airforce...

The defence acquisition will initiate it under the defence minister.

 

[Akshat]

Who will initiate the AON... Is it GOI or airforce...

The proposal is sent to DAC by the Procurement board, which is headed by the Defense Secretary, a GoI officer. However, by convention, DPB won’t forward anything unless and until it has already been cleared unofficially. DAC rarely denies anything cleared by DPB. So it is GoI.

 

[Sunil Choan]

Here we go again, when our ship builders have built nuclear and scorpene submarines why award contracts to foreign nations?

 

[Sandeep]

It’s great that german submarines have been chosen as the design and technology are advanced. Now they need to inform us of the type of submarine chosen, price, amount of ToT given, amount of local manufacturing and indigenous content. Also they still need to sign a contract and go through the negotiation committees so that’s why it will take a long time before we even get the first submarine. I think it will take over 15 years before we finish manufacturing all 6 but they should leave the option of buying another 3-6 submarines but with upgraded technology.

 

[Sridhar]

Hope IN takes decisions quickly. Heavy Torpedos are the need of the hour.

 

[avinash]

Wait! isnt this company trying to sell itself and the main contender buyer is some American company ? Wont it delay or change everything in the agreement ? Is it worth time and money and national security?

 

[PKPRS]

So Navy doesn’t have confidence in DRDO AIP, I haven’t heard any official news about TKMS winning the bid, now we need to see which variant is selected if at all, Type 212 CD, Type 214, Type 218 and so on, it would be nice if get Dakar class.

 

[Anant]

Wonderful news to start the day.
Six P-75Is will start rolling out from 2032.
A long wait but worth the wait for German U-212+ stealth submarine.

India will be ordering 3 new Scorpenes with Indian AIPs and also upgrade of all 6 Indian Scorpenes with Indian AIPs so it is just too much work for MDL alone.

I recommend splitting P-75I contract between MDL and L&T 50:50 (3:3) and keep maintaining two boat yards for Indian future.
Once IN WDB P-76 comes on scene then L&T should get that contract to build the first 6 boats so the submarine work will be evenly loaded into two yards.

The offering seems to be the Type 214 design with some elements taken from the Type 212A, and possibly from the Type 212CD design. We aren't getting Type 212As based on available information.

 

[Anant]

Here we go again, when our ship builders have built nuclear and scorpene submarines why award contracts to foreign nations?

You do realise these submarines will be built in India, right? Oh, and we have never designed AND built a SSK. As the plan goes, learnings from the Kalvari-class (Project 75) and this project (Project 75I) will be used to develop the Project 76 submarines, which will be Indian-designed AND Indian-built.

 

[Anant]

So Navy doesn’t have confidence in DRDO AIP, I haven’t heard any official news about TKMS winning the bid, now we need to see which variant is selected if at all, Type 212 CD, Type 214, Type 218 and so on, it would be nice if get Dakar class.

No, the Navy has confidence in DRDO's AIP. We wouldn't be building 3 submarines with that system and retrofitting it into 6 more if that was the case. Part of the reason the DRDO AIP is not being used on the P-75I boats is because of the modifications that the design would require for this. That entails significant cost and time, both of which are at a premium.

 

[Anant]

Wait! isnt this company trying to sell itself and the main contender buyer is some American company ? Wont it delay or change everything in the agreement ? Is it worth time and money and national security?

Yes and no. TKMS has been looking for someone to pick up a large stake in it, but as things presently stand, it is expected that Carlyle Group (that American firm you mentioned) may pick a controlling non-majority stake, with the German government acquiring a good chunk of the company too.

 

[Surendra Barsode]

1. What happens to the technology obtained under Scorpion submarines deal with France? Is it now discarded or India will some more submarines using that technology?

2. What happens to DRDO AIP module to be fitted on Scorpions? Is that project still on?

3. When India can build nuclear submarines on its own, why do we need technology for diesel submarines? 4. Some clarity is required on these 3 questions.

 

[sid]

1. What happens to the technology obtained under Scorpion submarines deal with France? Is it now discarded or India will some more submarines using that technology?

2. What happens to DRDO AIP module to be fitted on Scorpions? Is that project still on?

3. When India can build nuclear submarines on its own, why do we need technology for diesel submarines? 4. Some clarity is required on these 3 questions.

Instead of putting together a dozen submarines from Scorpion class,the navy has decided to have " bigger" better weapons...but with 3 - 4 different classes of boats + components, one is surprised at the level of incompetence in planning

 

[tlsmani]

The defence acquisition will initiate it under the defence minister.

Germany is biggest sanction monger in Europe unlike France,Spain etc.They had ditched Israel amid political compulsion to assuaged criminal jihadis in west asia

 

[Aayush Pratap]

Just make sure the contract is ironclad so we don't get screwed over, these guys are known snowflakes.

 

[Hawk]

1. What happens to the technology obtained under Scorpion submarines deal with France? Is it now discarded or India will some more submarines using that technology?

2. What happens to DRDO AIP module to be fitted on Scorpions? Is that project still on?

3. When India can build nuclear submarines on its own, why do we need technology for diesel submarines? 4. Some clarity is required on these 3 questions.

1. Scorpene sub deal did not include complete ToT. Whatever tech that is obtained will be used for upcoming indigenous P76 class subs along with tech derived from P75I project.

2. DRDO and L&T AIP contract signed last year for integration on to Kalvari class subs. Next gen AIP will be developed for P76 project.

3. Conventional subs are as complicated as nuclear subs to build. Arihant class subs were built with significant help from Russia especially in the initial stage of the project.

 

[Oleg Olkha]

So Navy doesn’t have confidence in DRDO AIP, I haven’t heard any official news about TKMS winning the bid, now we need to see which variant is selected if at all, Type 212 CD, Type 214, Type 218 and so on, it would be nice if get Dakar class.

Israel have legal right to ownership of the "Dakar" class submarines...

 

[beencensured]

You do realise these submarines will be built in India, right? Oh, and we have never designed AND built a SSK. As the plan goes, learnings from the Kalvari-class (Project 75) and this project (Project 75I) will be used to develop the Project 76 submarines, which will be Indian-designed AND Indian-built.

They have already started to design and develop project 76, and there is good chance it will be final before project 75i. India has move to higher things, S5, nuclear attack submarines, and project 76.

The only thing of Germany it could change it's mind.

 

[desigandu]

No, the Navy has confidence in DRDO's AIP. We wouldn't be building 3 submarines with that system and retrofitting it into 6 more if that was the case. Part of the reason the DRDO AIP is not being used on the P-75I boats is because of the modifications that the design would require for this. That entails significant cost and time, both of which are at a premium.

I agree, we should get 3+3 kalavaris, as even if the P75Is is signed by mid 2026, we are looking at the 1st boat in 2033, and rest by 2038…

Want MDL to be busy if they can build the 6 kalvaris with our AIP and also upgrade the existing 6…Or in the alternate let us do 6+3 P75Is till we start on own P76s after 2035…

Thoughts?

 

[desigandu]

Yes and no. TKMS has been looking for someone to pick up a large stake in it, but as things presently stand, it is expected that Carlyle Group (that American firm you mentioned) may pick a controlling non-majority stake, with the German government acquiring a good chunk of the company too.

Would Germany be open to MDL say investing 25% stake along with Caryle…I know Caryle well and have dealt with them in my past life…There MO is simple - make TKMS profitable by cutting cost, boosting revenue and sell/list within 3-5 years…

 

[desigandu]

The offering seems to be the Type 214 design with some elements taken from the Type 212A, and possibly from the Type 212CD design. We aren't getting Type 212As based on available information.

Non Magnetic Steel with teardrop stealth hull??? are we getting them?