India's $7B AMCA Engine Deal with SAFRAN Ignites Fierce Debate on French Firm's Historical Tech-Sharing Failures

India's $7B AMCA Engine Deal with SAFRAN Ignites Fierce Debate on French Firm's Historical Tech-Sharing Failures


Recent reports of a potential agreement valued at approximately $7 billion (around ₹61,000 crore) between India and French aerospace leader SAFRAN has sparked a significant debate within the nation's defence community.

The deal focuses on the joint development of a powerful new jet engine for India's Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), a fifth-generation stealth fighter program.

While the partnership is being hailed as a major step towards modernising the Indian Air Force, it has also revived concerns over SAFRAN's past record on technology transfer.

Proponents of the deal point to the long and generally successful partnership between SAFRAN and India's state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). This collaboration has been vital for India's helicopter fleet.

The Shakti engine, co-developed by the two firms, is the proven powerplant for the Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH-Dhruv), the Light Combat Helicopter (LCH), and the Light Utility Helicopter (LUH).

Having produced over 350 units in Bengaluru, the engine has demonstrated its reliability in extreme conditions, from the high altitudes of the Himalayas to maritime environments.

This established trust is a key reason SAFRAN is seen as a dependable partner for the ambitious AMCA project.

However, a cloud of scepticism hangs over the agreement, stemming from SAFRAN's past performance on technology sharing. Critics highlight that the transfer of technology (ToT) for the very same Shakti engine was reportedly delayed by nearly two decades.

This delay hampered HAL's ability to produce and maintain the engines independently, leading to continued reliance on imported components, which increased both costs and logistical challenges for India's defence forces.

This history has made many experts cautious, questioning whether the new promises of full technology sharing will be fulfilled in a timely manner.

The debate is deeply connected to India's overarching national policy of "Aatmanirbhar Bharat," or a self-reliant India. The nation's past struggles with developing its own jet engine, most notably the indigenous Kaveri engine program, have created wariness about becoming overly dependent on foreign partners for critical defence technology.

The AMCA is a flagship program for India's aerospace ambitions, and any restrictions or delays in engine technology could critically undermine the ability of the DRDO's Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) to build a self-sustaining engine manufacturing ecosystem.

Supporters of the deal argue that the current terms directly address these historical concerns. The agreement for the new 120-kilonewton (kN) thrust engine reportedly includes the complete transfer of technology and, crucially, full intellectual property rights (IPR).

Granting India IPR would be a significant milestone, allowing the country to not only manufacture the engines domestically but also to modify, upgrade, and potentially export them in the future without foreign oversight.

This is seen as a genuine opportunity for India to become a global hub for advanced jet engine production.

The sheer scale of SAFRAN's involvement in India's military aviation underscores the importance of this deal. Beyond the AMCA, the co-developed engine technology is expected to be adapted for other platforms.

There is a projected demand for nearly 400 engines for the LUH and LCH fleets, in addition to future orders for 200 ALH-Dhruv helicopters and 400 units of the new Indian Multi-Role Helicopter (IMRH).

This extensive requirement makes a robust and complete technology transfer essential for cost-effective manufacturing and long-term operational readiness.

Ultimately, the SAFRAN partnership represents a critical balancing act for India—leveraging essential foreign expertise while vigorously pursuing the goal of self-reliance.

While the French firm's commitment to full technology transfer and IPR for the AMCA program is a source of confidence, the defence community remains watchful.

The success of this multi-billion dollar venture will depend entirely on SAFRAN's ability to deliver on its promises, which could finally enable India to achieve its long-held ambition of mastering jet engine technology.
 
Spending Seven Billion dollars to develop an engine for AMCA is stupendously expensive. Since AMCA is also a totally new platform under development, with attendant delays, it would be wise to spend such a large money for an indigenous development effort. It will succeed, if handled well.

Take a cue from the LCA development history. Earlier to ADA, all development projects for fighter aircraft were getting nixed, for some reason or the other. The great scientific leaders at that time, who knew the reasons, came up with an autonomous organization, such as ADA, with high powered Governing & General bodies. Something similar be created to handle this new challenge. Such an organization will use GTRE as the main work centre, like HAL was for ADA, and bring in the strengths from other public and private organizations. For example, Engine Design Bureau of HAL can be assigned some tasks, on which they are confident of delivering and so on. Just follow LCA, model of development, everything will fall in place. ADA not only developed LCA, but developed entire ecosystem, involving nearly about hundred organizations and several specific technical consultancies from abroad. Today, we are much better of in terms of capabilities in private sector, compared to LCA development days.
 
Alternatively, go for a company promoted by private technocrat entrepreneurs, holding 51% equity and government 49% equity, with a share capital of Ten Thousand Crores. Let Government offer a grant aid of Ten thousand crores, to be spent in equal proportion to equity, at any given time. Private entrepreneurs are capable of catching hold of best retired brains, both in India and abroad, like one or two compressor design, one or two for Combustion chamber, similarly for turbine, performance of integrated engine etc. And use GTRE, Engine Design Bureau of HAL and Engine Factory of HAL as main/major work centers. It will be a matter of time just for things to fall in place. After all, a fourth generation fighter aircraft like LCA is a lot more complex animal to develop, compared to an engine development. If we have not developed so far, it is due to the limitations of an a unitary organization trying to develop, not because it is more complex than LCA.

Private promoters getting the ownership of 51% of IPR at 25% investment, under the above arrangement, is quite attractive. The entity can earn enormous royalty over years, by licensing the production. Also, it is neither fair nor reliable for private promoters to ask more comfort. Technocrat promoters such as Tatas, L&T, Kirloskars etc can join together to promote such a company.
 
Is govt or defence ministry really listening to people voices or for that matter experts in this field? The defence ministry is bent upon giving the contract to Safran, reasons better known only to them. There are more to it than meets the eye.
After sometime, and when something goes wrong, there will be some other minister, who will squarely blame the earlier one. It's public money and they should not allow this to happen.
The govt should simultaneously go with two tech transfer firms, one with DRDO/GTRE and another one with private sector collaborative entity. Whoever execute the first prototype within the timeline with 100% local eco system should be awarded the serial production.
India should stop trusting any outside collaborators 100%. Make and deliver in India only. After all it's 7 billion dollars!
 
Is govt or defence ministry really listening to people voices or for that matter experts in this field? The defence ministry is bent upon giving the contract to Safran, reasons better known only to them. There are more to it than meets the eye.
After sometime, and when something goes wrong, there will be some other minister, who will squarely blame the earlier one. It's public money and they should not allow this to happen.
The govt should simultaneously go with two tech transfer firms, one with DRDO/GTRE and another one with private sector collaborative entity. Whoever execute the first prototype within the timeline with 100% local eco system should be awarded the serial production.
India should stop trusting any outside collaborators 100%. Make and deliver in India only. After all it's 7 billion dollars!
Looks like there is no apparatus in this forum, for sensitising the concerned people, with these feedbacks. If so, we are just shooting our suggestions/views in air.
 
Spending Seven Billion dollars to develop an engine for AMCA is stupendously expensive. Since AMCA is also a totally new platform under development, with attendant delays, it would be wise to spend such a large money for an indigenous development effort. It will succeed, if handled well.

Take a cue from the LCA development history. Earlier to ADA, all development projects for fighter aircraft were getting nixed, for some reason or the other. The great scientific leaders at that time, who knew the reasons, came up with an autonomous organization, such as ADA, with high powered Governing & General bodies. Something similar be created to handle this new challenge. Such an organization will use GTRE as the main work centre, like HAL was for ADA, and bring in the strengths from other public and private organizations. For example, Engine Design Bureau of HAL can be assigned some tasks, on which they are confident of delivering and so on. Just follow LCA, model of development, everything will fall in place. ADA not only developed LCA, but developed entire ecosystem, involving nearly about hundred organizations and several specific technical consultancies from abroad. Today, we are much better of in terms of capabilities in private sector, compared to LCA development days
 
If the above suggestion to develop the engine on lines of LCA, the existing structure of ADA can also be used. Since DG-ADA is an interested party, as the developer of AMCA, a parallel set up below him could be created for Engine Development, starting with a Programme Director (Aero engines), on lines similar to Programme Director (Combat Aircraft). In which case, building a set up with require talent, at various levels, from various government institutions becomes easy. Replicating the various processes would become faster.
 
Today we see our DRDO as the answear of technology solutions for India's defence needs in time bound manner as timely manufacture and delivery is most important measure of competence which DRDO has proved. While developing testing and operationalising of hypersonic long range missile system by DRDO is I'm process, DRDO should be given go ahead for development of stealth jet engine with indigenous technology for AMCA. For stealth jet engine, while agreement with SAFRAN is welcome but keeping in mind past 2 decades of delay at HAL due technology transfer issue, India should parallely go ahead with development of stealth jet engine by giving full freedom to DRDO also which will be pathbreaking as India will be self sufficient in stealth technology then besides technology transfer from SAFRAN.
DRDO should also be given the task of development of indigenous equivalent of IRON DROME/ S-500 to thwart any enemy projectiles be it hypersonic missile OR stealth jet OR DRONES at any altitude, learning from Israel's failure to counter hypersonic missiles which resulted huge damages in Israel.
 
Nobody is talking about Safran tech guidence to clear glitches in kaveri..were they not useful..I read that kaveri could solve some issues with screeching noise of kaveri ..and some other issues...not known in public domain...GTRE said I think they could solve some problems with Safran guidence ..may be that could have turned us towards france...And suggestion L&Tand kalyani partnering with RR to developm another engine for AMCA....FRANCE can't be trusted ...
 
Nobody is talking about Safran tech guidence to clear glitches in kaveri..were they not useful..I read that kaveri could solve some issues with screeching noise of kaveri ..and some other issues...not known in public domain...GTRE said I think they could solve some problems with Safran guidence ..may be that could have turned us towards france...And suggestion L&Tand kalyani partnering with RR to developm another engine for AMCA....FRANCE can't be trusted ...
 
Indian partner should be a private company or group of private companies. PSUs and government employees of GTRE and HAL are inefficient, with zero innovation, and they also have no incentive to work harder as they get the same salary as zero-effort employees or high-performing engineers. Promotion is based on seniority instead of impact and performance.

No extra bonuses for high-performing teams and managers. Same low government salary with job security, and they earn cash by corruption. Why will any talented engineers work for HAL or GTRE?

We need to develop a private military-industrial complex with good competition of various firms in every field: Naval, Aerospace, Land-based, etc.

Privatisation of HAL will be a very good thing in the long run; in the next 20-25 years, it will be one of the best engine and fighter jet manufacturers if privatized today.
Govt tries to bring in reforms with decentralised funding , robust safeguard mechanism, and incentives for good promotions. DRDO rejected them.
So, you can see that it's the entrenched mafia who have gotten habitual to the sole monopoly over our armed races feel uncomfortable at reforms.

It not only leaves our armed forces with lack of critical systems but also stops India from advancing in research and development. And their back handedness and grouping with bureaucrats from DPSUs and MoDs babus also restrict private players from entering this sector .

So, it's not the salary. It's the greed for power and monopoly hampering innovation. Irony how in worlds largest democracy an organisation has autocratic say in technology.

No wonder our armed forces prefer foreign weapons. These firms value customers and give top edge systems on time bound manner.

So, yes.. in conclusion I agree that DRDO and HAL should be kept out of future JV and Private firms should be included in JVs. Untill DRDO reforms itself.

This concept of absolute job security has rendered out public org and Beauracrats behaving like kings
 
DRDO success or failures can't be seen through a single prism. Just a year back, there was a serious effort to restructure DRDO, with an appreciation that DRDO is not delivering to the expectations. Now, every thing has become honky dory, after Operation Sindoor. The truth lies some where in between. You may like to see my comments & suggestions, put on a YouTube video talking about impending DRDO restructuring, in the following:

Please be aware that if the proposed restructuring fails, it has the potential to diminish the capability built over several decades. One should be very careful, so as to ensure that our mis-steps will not cause a disaster, for the future of Defence Research. I got interested in this topic, after I had seen an article in a newspaper, by Dr Aatre and Dr K G Narayanan, Distinguished Scientists of DRDO, expressing their genuine misgivings about the proposed restructuring. After that, I have searched the You Tube and got this video to understand and respond, with well thought out remarks. Trust they will reach the ears of those who matter for this restructuring.

At the outset, I certainly agree that there is a need to pragmatically think on how the Defence Research has to function in future, towards an improved success, keeping the past experience in view.To start with, there are wings in DRDO which have done exceedingly well, whether it is ADA spearheading the LCA development, which by any standards is an outstanding success Or the Integrated Missile Development programme, which has delivered immense capability to the national security. Infact, the benefits of just these two programs outweigh the combined losses from rest of the labs/projects, where applicable. Hence, there is a need to seperate the institutions and systems, which have succeeded from the restructuring, at least till we are sure that the new format delivers better. However, even in those institutions, there is a need to adopt compulsory retirement of scientists, above certain level, as being done in services, to prevent a top heavy structure which is definitely found to be counter productive.

What is our Past Experience?

1. We succeeded with a complex project like LCA, but failed with UAVs and Jet Engine developments, why?

Answer: In the case of LCA, right from the beginning we had an industrial partner HAL, who had hands on experience in manufacturing of aircrafts and a robust Design Bureau to support R&D activities. After ADA was created, right from inception HAL was always critical of ADA's ability to lead the project. An IAF oversight was that of a mother-in-law, not very optimistic about our joint abilities to deliver a fourth generation aircraft. As we succeeded, it added new requirements, given the delays in development. That difficult partnership made us to stand on our toes all the time, making a difference in the long run, when it cames to an eventual success. It is like husband and wife being critical of each other's capabilities, but join together to make the family succeed. In the case of UAVs and Jet engine development, there was no such industrial partnership or oversight by the user reps. That makes the difference.

2. DRDO Labs dealing with Individual systems: Mostly, they have succeeded, such as the development of radar etc. Reason being, often there will be few scientists in the lab, who are either genius and restless, and cannot sit idle without trying tirelessly. That doesn't apply to complex systems like engines or UAVs, where multi-disciplinary activities are involved with a demanding customer, in waiting. Any short fall in one system can make the overall project fail. Hence, there is a need not to distrub the labs which are functioning successfully.

3. Labs involved in areas, where there are under export controls, such as in missile development technologies:
They have succeeded, but incrementally. In such cases, every simple indigenous development is a success by itself, enthusing the scientists. Success breeds success, extending the confidence & capabilities, slowly but steadily, as can be seen in the Integrated Missile Development programme, over the years. Such an approach is not feasible for Fighter Aircraft or Jet Engine development, where the customer expects the DRDO to deliver a contemporary system, comparable to what he can otherwise import. He has his compulsions to demand that, given the security needs.

4. The Flexible Complimenting System for Promotions in DRDO: While being generous for individual career progression, is counter productive for a viable organisational structure. It often results in a very top heavy system which is inefficient. It should be modified to have an inbuilt system of compulsory retirements, as in services, beyond certain senior level (say Scientist/Engineer - E) to keep the organisation agile and in turn the team highly competent. Stale leaders at the top are often counter productive, leading to the current feeling, that DRDO is not delivering to the expectations. The introduction of premature retirements will keep the scientists on their toes, as it happens in services. Only the best will stay on to lead. Those relieved can always find alternative employment on the academic side, which is also beneficial to the educational institutions, as they will get faculty which has some field experience. DRDO can make that trasit attractive by a 2-3 year deputation to the concerned institutions, which penalty will be much less than having them till superannuation.

5. Too much 'Security' (for entry & exit):
Often, it makes the scientists lose their esteem and a sense of belonging to the organisation. After all, we could develop LCA with minimum security set up at ADA, but offered an excellent environment. It encouraged them to feel a sense of belonging to ADA and own up the LCA project and it's never ending challenges. Often, the scientists stayed much beyond the office hours and came on Saturdays too. In fact, they became work addicts, albeit without their conscious knowledge. When there was a suggestion from security incharge to introduce body frisking, as the scientists were often carrying drawings outside, it was jokingly told to him that often we ourselves get mixed up with various versions of drawings and softwares. So, why would anybody outside can make use of such discrete drawings and risk with huge investment to develop an LCA outside. Hence, DRDO labs should have a calibrated security environment based on a realistic assessment of what can really be used outside requiring some oversight & confidentiality, not on everything.

6. Offering Test Facilities to Private Developers:
Post my superannuation, I was associated with CSIR-NAL. With a view to generate revenue from the test facilities NAL had, we did offer them to private industry. The experience showed that the private industry cannot afford the rates evolved as per CSIR norms. Against that background, I suggest that DRDO should charge nominal charges, covering the revenue expenditure and consumables, with an overhead in terms of percentage. But not charge the infrastructure or scientist manpower costs which would be unaffordable by the private industry. Such an approach should be seen in the larger interest of the country, to support development projects in the private industry.

7. Why a senior scientist with right aptitude should be incharge of Procurement & Administration of the Lab:
After initial trials to use bureaucrats on deputation from government, a conscious decision was made by ADA to use a senior scientist with requisite aptitude to head these departments, as the bureaucrats were often became an obstruction, in the name rules. The real problem was that they can't understand the scientists language/needs and the scientists can't understand their rules. In fact, I was persuaded to take up the responsibility of Administration & Contracts, in addition being the head of aircraft structure development. While it was baptism by fire, I could make difference to the whole system, albeit after some initial learning for a few months. A larger number of international development contracts were finalised meeting the Phase -2 development schedules of LCA, in addition to multitude of contracts with private industry. As a scientist, I was able to understand the project needs, was able to tell the scientists in their own language on how to finalise precise SoWs, required for foolproof contracts. Yes, it was a real slog, but certainly helped the project.

8. Ordinance Factories:
Since HAL type of industrial base with design insight will not be available for all defence development projects, it is essential to examine whether Ordinance Factories in the given field are available to associate, with a concerned DRDO labs. However, I do agree that the non-scientific cadre at the technical level should be seperated, where feasible, so that the DRDO labs can function on the lines of ADA, with only scientific manpower.

9. Summary :

a. Don't distrub successful set ups like ADA and Integrated Missile Development labs, at least for the time being, till we succeed with our new systems elsewhere. However, the compulsory retirement of scientists as in services be introduced.

b. Similarly, individual system level labs which are successful. However, the projects may be sanctioned through end-users for a proper oversight and accountability. For example, a radar required by LCA, through ADA.

c. In the case of engine, the capabilities of GTRE and HAL Engine Design Bureau (& Engine factory) be put together ,as in the case of LCA, for a successful development of a jet-engine, which is the need of the hour.

d. HAL and ADA have to play a role in UAVs. The structure should be similar to LCA development.

About me. I am an Outstanding Scientist & a former Project Director of ADA, who had closely worked on LCA, the Tejas, which at last considered an outstanding success after many trials and tribulations. I worked from the inception of the project for 22 years, prior to my superannuation in Nov 2008. I was holding additional charge of Director(Admin & Contracts) and Secretary-ADA, for seven years.

Thanks for your patience. 🙏
 
DRDO success or failures can't be seen through a single prism. Just a year back, there was a serious effort to restructure DRDO, with an appreciation that DRDO is not delivering to the expectations. Now, every thing has become honky dory, after Operation Sindoor. The truth lies some where in between. You may like to see my comments & suggestions, put on a YouTube video talking about impending DRDO restructuring, in the following:

Please be aware that if the proposed restructuring fails, it has the potential to diminish the capability built over several decades. One should be very careful, so as to ensure that our mis-steps will not cause a disaster, for the future of Defence Research. I got interested in this topic, after I had seen an article in a newspaper, by Dr Aatre and Dr K G Narayanan, Distinguished Scientists of DRDO, expressing their genuine misgivings about the proposed restructuring. After that, I have searched the You Tube and got this video to understand and respond, with well thought out remarks. Trust they will reach the ears of those who matter for this restructuring.

At the outset, I certainly agree that there is a need to pragmatically think on how the Defence Research has to function in future, towards an improved success, keeping the past experience in view.To start with, there are wings in DRDO which have done exceedingly well, whether it is ADA spearheading the LCA development, which by any standards is an outstanding success Or the Integrated Missile Development programme, which has delivered immense capability to the national security. Infact, the benefits of just these two programs outweigh the combined losses from rest of the labs/projects, where applicable. Hence, there is a need to seperate the institutions and systems, which have succeeded from the restructuring, at least till we are sure that the new format delivers better. However, even in those institutions, there is a need to adopt compulsory retirement of scientists, above certain level, as being done in services, to prevent a top heavy structure which is definitely found to be counter productive.

What is our Past Experience?

1. We succeeded with a complex project like LCA, but failed with UAVs and Jet Engine developments, why?

Answer: In the case of LCA, right from the beginning we had an industrial partner HAL, who had hands on experience in manufacturing of aircrafts and a robust Design Bureau to support R&D activities. After ADA was created, right from inception HAL was always critical of ADA's ability to lead the project. An IAF oversight was that of a mother-in-law, not very optimistic about our joint abilities to deliver a fourth generation aircraft. As we succeeded, it added new requirements, given the delays in development. That difficult partnership made us to stand on our toes all the time, making a difference in the long run, when it cames to an eventual success. It is like husband and wife being critical of each other's capabilities, but join together to make the family succeed. In the case of UAVs and Jet engine development, there was no such industrial partnership or oversight by the user reps. That makes the difference.

2. DRDO Labs dealing with Individual systems: Mostly, they have succeeded, such as the development of radar etc. Reason being, often there will be few scientists in the lab, who are either genius and restless, and cannot sit idle without trying tirelessly. That doesn't apply to complex systems like engines or UAVs, where multi-disciplinary activities are involved with a demanding customer, in waiting. Any short fall in one system can make the overall project fail. Hence, there is a need not to distrub the labs which are functioning successfully.

3. Labs involved in areas, where there are under export controls, such as in missile development technologies:
They have succeeded, but incrementally. In such cases, every simple indigenous development is a success by itself, enthusing the scientists. Success breeds success, extending the confidence & capabilities, slowly but steadily, as can be seen in the Integrated Missile Development programme, over the years. Such an approach is not feasible for Fighter Aircraft or Jet Engine development, where the customer expects the DRDO to deliver a contemporary system, comparable to what he can otherwise import. He has his compulsions to demand that, given the security needs.

4. The Flexible Complimenting System for Promotions in DRDO: While being generous for individual career progression, is counter productive for a viable organisational structure. It often results in a very top heavy system which is inefficient. It should be modified to have an inbuilt system of compulsory retirements, as in services, beyond certain senior level (say Scientist/Engineer - E) to keep the organisation agile and in turn the team highly competent. Stale leaders at the top are often counter productive, leading to the current feeling, that DRDO is not delivering to the expectations. The introduction of premature retirements will keep the scientists on their toes, as it happens in services. Only the best will stay on to lead. Those relieved can always find alternative employment on the academic side, which is also beneficial to the educational institutions, as they will get faculty which has some field experience. DRDO can make that trasit attractive by a 2-3 year deputation to the concerned institutions, which penalty will be much less than having them till superannuation.

5. Too much 'Security' (for entry & exit):
Often, it makes the scientists lose their esteem and a sense of belonging to the organisation. After all, we could develop LCA with minimum security set up at ADA, but offered an excellent environment. It encouraged them to feel a sense of belonging to ADA and own up the LCA project and it's never ending challenges. Often, the scientists stayed much beyond the office hours and came on Saturdays too. In fact, they became work addicts, albeit without their conscious knowledge. When there was a suggestion from security incharge to introduce body frisking, as the scientists were often carrying drawings outside, it was jokingly told to him that often we ourselves get mixed up with various versions of drawings and softwares. So, why would anybody outside can make use of such discrete drawings and risk with huge investment to develop an LCA outside. Hence, DRDO labs should have a calibrated security environment based on a realistic assessment of what can really be used outside requiring some oversight & confidentiality, not on everything.

6. Offering Test Facilities to Private Developers:
Post my superannuation, I was associated with CSIR-NAL. With a view to generate revenue from the test facilities NAL had, we did offer them to private industry. The experience showed that the private industry cannot afford the rates evolved as per CSIR norms. Against that background, I suggest that DRDO should charge nominal charges, covering the revenue expenditure and consumables, with an overhead in terms of percentage. But not charge the infrastructure or scientist manpower costs which would be unaffordable by the private industry. Such an approach should be seen in the larger interest of the country, to support development projects in the private industry.

7. Why a senior scientist with right aptitude should be incharge of Procurement & Administration of the Lab:
After initial trials to use bureaucrats on deputation from government, a conscious decision was made by ADA to use a senior scientist with requisite aptitude to head these departments, as the bureaucrats were often became an obstruction, in the name rules. The real problem was that they can't understand the scientists language/needs and the scientists can't understand their rules. In fact, I was persuaded to take up the responsibility of Administration & Contracts, in addition being the head of aircraft structure development. While it was baptism by fire, I could make difference to the whole system, albeit after some initial learning for a few months. A larger number of international development contracts were finalised meeting the Phase -2 development schedules of LCA, in addition to multitude of contracts with private industry. As a scientist, I was able to understand the project needs, was able to tell the scientists in their own language on how to finalise precise SoWs, required for foolproof contracts. Yes, it was a real slog, but certainly helped the project.

8. Ordinance Factories:
Since HAL type of industrial base with design insight will not be available for all defence development projects, it is essential to examine whether Ordinance Factories in the given field are available to associate, with a concerned DRDO labs. However, I do agree that the non-scientific cadre at the technical level should be seperated, where feasible, so that the DRDO labs can function on the lines of ADA, with only scientific manpower.

9. Summary :

a. Don't distrub successful set ups like ADA and Integrated Missile Development labs, at least for the time being, till we succeed with our new systems elsewhere. However, the compulsory retirement of scientists as in services be introduced.

b. Similarly, individual system level labs which are successful. However, the projects may be sanctioned through end-users for a proper oversight and accountability. For example, a radar required by LCA, through ADA.

c. In the case of engine, the capabilities of GTRE and HAL Engine Design Bureau (& Engine factory) be put together ,as in the case of LCA, for a successful development of a jet-engine, which is the need of the hour.

d. HAL and ADA have to play a role in UAVs. The structure should be similar to LCA development.

About me. I am an Outstanding Scientist & a former Project Director of ADA, who had closely worked on LCA, the Tejas, which at last considered an outstanding success after many trials and tribulations. I worked from the inception of the project for 22 years, prior to my superannuation in Nov 2008. I was holding additional charge of Director(Admin & Contracts) and Secretary-ADA, for seven years.

Thanks for your patience. 🙏
Hello sir,
My take if you would take a minute.

I have also gone through the suggested recommendations from the Committe..

1. Most of your fear about successfull labs are already adhered to buy maintaing 10 national Labs. This ensures that successfull labs retains their know how and know why while small but complimentary labs may merge in them to fast track the research.

2. There is a over center lisation of control over the objective and funds of all the projects talen up by drdo. This makes it easier for non scientific officials to meddle in the system and even corrupts the scientific person in charge. After all we are all humans and power can corrupt a human. This power doesn't stem purely from funds.. but monopoly and control over the direction of our armed forces too.

3. The system developer and integrator approach! This is the biggest thing holding the DRDO back from realising it's true potential. Govt needs to back scientist because it is alot of times a risky venture and non-profitable in immediate terms. Such nature makes is a non viable for a nascent Indian industry. But engineering is a whole different game where our industry has matured, talent pool is vast and just waiting to be trained and utilised. Which DRDO can't do effectively due to its state owned nature restricting employment procedure.

4. I saw that most staff was apprehensive about job security. My good sir, an ambitious power like India needs the scientist and it will never fire a competent scientist. And it goes beyond a project. And our political class for all it's fault have shown that it can maintain a critical projects development ongoing. As for Medicare staff... they will only hamper the ecosystem and drive of genuine passionate experts and researchers.
But even those staff can find work in emerging RnD initiative of several in house industry setup, who would probably pay more than the govt.

5. Job security, no structure of performance based incentive brings lethargy into the system. And further blocks new talent being absorbed into the organisation. Seniority doesn't mean capability especially in ever changing technology sphere of the world. You need young blood to lead who are more open to the idea of new technologies.

6. Seperation of non science guys from scientist. Scientist must have autonomy in their work. Even peers from non related project shouldn't be able to dictate them.. as it happens now as this seniority/ hierarchy trumps domain specific knowledge. Nations have suffered from it and those rectified it have been blessed.

7. Going back to its root for premier research organisation will energise the scientists who join such organisations for their passion of science but gets bogged down by govt officials demands, End users unexpected pressure etc. Leaving fine tuning, integration etc to private sector will free drdo from such responsibility increasing its efficiency.
Also aur armed forces can go to private sector who will have the reason to fullfill their needs for profits and also guts to show them the mirror when asking excessive and unrealistic demands.

8. Effect on Indian Academia: This approach fosters an academia interaction which promotes thinking innovative and interaction between students and scientists etc. Scientist can even go on to teach with much more experience not getting bogged down by babus.

9. Availability of funds. Giving up the role of "seller" to armed forces and focusing on pure research will result in increased funds as those funds won't be limited by the needs of forces and their fickle nature. A scientist focuses on research.. shows result.. access funds atleast lab head level.. ensuring deep dive into their domain and have broad pov as opposed to fix vision given by end users.

10. All this can be greatly achieved by PMO only because despite misgivings, it's the truth that PMO is the most politically isolated and forward looking office of our nation. And the PM and his team can have discretionary power limiting access to even their political allies. It also take away attention of opposition from this as portfolio under PMO are considered strategic and bipartisan. Case in point ISRO and Atomic Domain. Both have flourished with direct access to biggest authority and funds.

Yes there are risk of PM like Manmohan Singh who would let Sonia Gandhi override him. But I would like to assume that this will change with time and asymmetrical hold of one family will diminish from our system.

While, i understand that an abrupt change can bring in more bad than good but a systematic and mission focused phased changes can result in betterment of DRDO. And when an organisation becomes competent, they also get good facilities, it's normal behaviour of our society.
And surely you can see the vested interest blocking these reforms for the danger to their power and hold over drdo.

It's not about just DRDO but the progress of our nation. Because it is THE R&D org and needs to do it utmost to progress nation. Abdul Kalam and BARC scientist had to struggle to achieve what they did in those times.

You're right in saying that successfull labs should be protected. But it's the labs/scientist that needs protection. The ministry offical can be utilised even if it comes under PMO by hiring on deputation basis.

Hoping to have genuine discussion with you, assuming you're not one of the corrupted ones in drdo.

Note: I nowhere suggest that previous govt apathy towards defense and budgeting had nothing to do with fostering a non competitive and lethargic environment in scientific institutions.

Also, i am not asking to transfer defense related decisions to PMO bypassing MoD. No, it's only R&D that benefits from it. Other DPSUs must remain under MoD. And decision should remain under them only. Research is different than defense .
 
You are entitled to your views.
I am not asking to be "entitled" sir. Since you said you have experience in interaction and development of several projects, I thought you would've insights that could further this discussion.

We are talking about reforms, not ideology or loyalty. Unless that's what you aimed for.

And if an esteemed person is refusing to have discussion and engagement by terming it as difference of opinion.. then what image does this leave for such an important organization. Same as last where the populace abhors HAL and DRDO for their inefficiency and doesn't respect them at all unlike other nations.

P.S : It's logic based discussion. Not opinion.
 
Kaveri project wasn't allocated even 10% of this humongous amount, that too over 10 years. According to a GTRE official as reported in another defense online portal, it was allocated only Rs.2,500 crores in the last 10 years.

Granted that past governments have to beat majority of the blame, but this govt too didn't do enough and only riding on the Western shoulders like an intellectualy paralyzed and handicapped and crippled and deprived nation.

If this govt - when came to power in 2014 - had formed an industry - academia joint consortium with the best and the brightest from IITs, IISc etc and from the research labs of both private and public, ordering it to focus on filling up the gaps / holes in the project, with at least 25k crores of funds over a period of 10 years, Kaveri would've become an Indian answer to F-404, if not F-414.

But, this Govt too commits the same blunder of not willing to promote or motivate or encourage indigenous R & D and not wiilling to allocate even 25,000 crores over 10 years, is readily allocating 61,000 crores to Safaran.

What does that show ?

- that the govt itself is confessing that its own defense research organization is not capable of making anything itself ?

- that, allocating this huge money for indigenous research is a waste ?

- that, it is willing to help and rejuvenate only foreign defense companies and not its own, as if it's interest lies more and more on the welfare of foreign defense companies ?

- that, the "make in india" is for making nuts and bolts for the products which are the fruition of foreign brains' R & D ?

Seriously, if the govt is not sincere nor serious about indigenous R & D, it should dissolve and shut down DRDO, GTRE, HAL, BEL etc. and work overtime to the welfare of Safaran, GE, Lockheed Martin etc.

Why bother wasting so much on paying hundreds of thousands of nuts and bolts makers.
 
Kaveri project wasn't allocated even 10% of this humongous amount, that too over 10 years. According to a GTRE official as reported in another defense online portal, it was allocated only Rs.2,500 crores in the last 10 years.

Granted that past governments have to beat majority of the blame, but this govt too didn't do enough and only riding on the Western shoulders like an intellectualy paralyzed and handicapped and crippled and deprived nation.

If this govt - when came to power in 2014 - had formed an industry - academia joint consortium with the best and the brightest from IITs, IISc etc and from the research labs of both private and public, ordering it to focus on filling up the gaps / holes in the project, with at least 25k crores of funds over a period of 10 years, Kaveri would've become an Indian answer to F-404, if not F-414.

But, this Govt too commits the same blunder of not willing to promote or motivate or encourage indigenous R & D and not wiilling to allocate even 25,000 crores over 10 years, is readily allocating 61,000 crores to Safaran.

What does that show ?

- that the govt itself is confessing that its own defense research organization is not capable of making anything itself ?

- that, allocating this huge money for indigenous research is a waste ?

- that, it is willing to help and rejuvenate only foreign defense companies and not its own, as if it's interest lies more and more on the welfare of foreign defense companies ?

- that, the "make in india" is for making nuts and bolts for the products which are the fruition of foreign brains' R & D ?

Seriously, if the govt is not sincere nor serious about indigenous R & D, it should dissolve and shut down DRDO, GTRE, HAL, BEL etc. and work overtime to the welfare of Safaran, GE, Lockheed Martin etc.

Why bother wasting so much on paying hundreds of thousands of nuts and bolts makers.
Actually it's more about the rust in drdo too. I would urge your to search online about the recommended reforms for DRDO by a committee and how DRDO pushed back against it. Highlighting the DRDOs indulgence in maintain the current things. This will give you a detailed insight into drdo ecosystem. Even recent news of DRDOs progress is result of just few of many recommended reforms being implemented in fragmentation.

Hence you see govt aiming to push private sector in defense. And industry can build world class system from scratch when earlier govt didn't invite them. Just look at how open cried when reliance was offset partner for rafael. They had to start somewhere.

And you start by small things in supply chain and then increasing expertise by absorbing ToT.
Now TATA is building semi conductor fans, fuselages for rafael, L&T is increasing shipbuilding capacity with multiple Collab with navy. Mahindra and TATA are building WHAP, ATAGS etc.. Relaince is entering into aerospace through Collab.

So, it's systematic. You can't expect industry to suddenly produce a miracle. Govt job is to create an atmosphere for innovation which it's trying its best to do. But then you have oppn creating halla over any reform. Targeting the industry itself as they know that their system will lose the hold they have over industry by red tapism.

And it's not the end. It's the start. Even mobile phones can't be built in a day. You need several parts for it and most of them were never available tech in india like semiconductor chips.

Once the fab starts running, like now IIT students designed chip has been finalised to be produced.. these things drive Innovation. Just look at the startups in drones, aviation sector.

Sir, if you would come out of political lens and look at the actual landscape of India's increasing r&d footprint, you will realise the future vision mode the govt is running on.

And this is after indian political class has made it sucidial to stop any welfare scheme and free things are almost accepted as a normal. Welfare scheme which have most misused history by Beauracrats is more than the entire defense budget of India.

So, think. And if you just wanna further a narrative without looking at it from wider systematic approach.. then nothing can't be done for you and you would even find developed nations unworthy. As they aren't as good as shown in Hollywood.
 
Kaveri project wasn't allocated even 10% of this humongous amount, that too over 10 years. According to a GTRE official as reported in another defense online portal, it was allocated only Rs.2,500 crores in the last 10 years.

Granted that past governments have to beat majority of the blame, but this govt too didn't do enough and only riding on the Western shoulders like an intellectualy paralyzed and handicapped and crippled and deprived nation.

If this govt - when came to power in 2014 - had formed an industry - academia joint consortium with the best and the brightest from IITs, IISc etc and from the research labs of both private and public, ordering it to focus on filling up the gaps / holes in the project, with at least 25k crores of funds over a period of 10 years, Kaveri would've become an Indian answer to F-404, if not F-414.

But, this Govt too commits the same blunder of not willing to promote or motivate or encourage indigenous R & D and not wiilling to allocate even 25,000 crores over 10 years, is readily allocating 61,000 crores to Safaran.

What does that show ?

- that the govt itself is confessing that its own defense research organization is not capable of making anything itself ?

- that, allocating this huge money for indigenous research is a waste ?

- that, it is willing to help and rejuvenate only foreign defense companies and not its own, as if it's interest lies more and more on the welfare of foreign defense companies ?

- that, the "make in india" is for making nuts and bolts for the products which are the fruition of foreign brains' R & D ?

Seriously, if the govt is not sincere nor serious about indigenous R & D, it should dissolve and shut down DRDO, GTRE, HAL, BEL etc. and work overtime to the welfare of Safaran, GE, Lockheed Martin etc.

Why bother wasting so much on paying hundreds of thousands of nuts and bolts makers.
Please be aware, the initial sanction for development of LCA was 2200 cr around1990. And Kavery engine was sanctioned 1500cr, around the same time, which was significant. The entire LCA development was less than 10,000cr. Now, spending 61,000 cr is disproportionately high, even for a collaboration. If GTRE is confident of delivering in 25,000 Cr, it must give a proposal backed by credible mile stones. For example, the initial 2,200 Cr sanction for first phase of LCA program was to develop two aircraft as technology demonstrators. But, ADA saved the money and produced more prototypes.

Whether one likes it or not, we must accept that the existing system, going by the past record, cannot deliver the project unless there is a philosophical overhaul on how such a project is run I'm future. One can't prepare the accounts, audit and approve. For transperancy and judicious spending, the audit and approvals have to be by different entities, who in turn take moral responsibility for such audits and approvals.

It is time either we create an ADA type structure or a create a parallel set up (below DG-ADA) within ADA itself for engine development, which essential transfers the responsibility for success to such a set up OR go for a corporate setup with 51% equity from Private, 49% Govt (say through ADA) and another hundred percent grant in aid as R&D support (to be spent in equal proportion to equity). Either of them will succeed, by the time AMCA gets operational. Initial development of AMCA can be with GE414 engine, which is expected to be produced by HAL for LCA Mk2 aircraft.

The new set ups can get enough consultancies from abroad, including from SNCMA and Rolls Royce, and also from retired professionals. Also, engage both private and academic institutions in the country on lines of LCA, in addition to government labs. Be aware that ISRO has developed enough technology in the field. Similarly, Engine Design Bureau of HAL. We must exploit every strength and in turn develop an ecosystem. Just criticising government for unending fund sanction is not the way forward, if we have failed both in developing the requires thrust and controlling a mundane thing like weight, in spite of several decades of effort, by the concerned lab. Hence, there is an absolute need to change the modus of development, for this strategic requirement.
 
Withhold 25% of funds until all Intellectual property and manufacturing knowhow is given to India. Holdbacks are common in Business.
 
Withhold 25% of funds until all Intellectual property and manufacturing knowhow is given to India. Holdbacks are common in Business.
25% is not much, as their profits will be much higher in a case like this. Assume they have provided for 50% profit and were influenced by Trump not to make it a success. They will still make 25%, with we wearing a cap. 😩

Nothing to beat our own development. Developing an echo system is more like spending on the education of our child, which will be available for future projects. Otherwise, keep repeating collaboration for every requirement, as no one can be questioned, if they have not learned/grasped the nuances the full technology How & why?
 

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