Lockheed Martin Bets on F-21 for India's $20 Billion MMRCA Deal, As F-35A Incompatibile to Indian Current Systems

Lockheed Martin has confirmed that it is prioritizing the F-21 fighter jet, a customized variant of the F-16, for India's Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) competition, a deal estimated to be worth $18-20 billion.

This clarification comes amidst ongoing speculation about the potential sale of the F-35A Lightning II to India, especially after its prominent display at Aero India 2023.

Despite the F-35A's appearance at the air show, both Lockheed Martin and Indian Air Force officials have stated that there is no current plan to acquire the fifth-generation stealth fighter. A Lockheed Martin representative confirmed that no formal offer for the F-35A has been made to New Delhi.

This stance aligns with previous statements from Indian Air Force Chief Marshal Birender Singh Dhanoa in 2018, who categorically denied any interest in the F-35 at that time.

While the F-35A's presence at Aero India fueled rumors of a potential sale, it is now being viewed by experts as a demonstration of the strengthening U.S.-India defence relationship rather than a concrete offer.

Some analysts, like retired Air Marshal Manmohan Bahadur, believe that the F-35A's complex systems and potential integration challenges with India's existing infrastructure make it an unlikely choice for the near future.

Instead, Lockheed Martin is heavily promoting the F-21, which boasts significant enhancements tailored specifically for the Indian Air Force. These include an advanced glass cockpit, upgraded avionics, and the unique Triple Pylon Rail system, enabling the aircraft to carry multiple AIM-120 air-to-air missiles – a capability not typically found in similar fighter jets.

The F-21 is being offered as a "Make in India" solution, with Lockheed Martin emphasizing technology transfer and local production in partnership with Indian companies like Tata Advanced Systems. This approach aligns with India's push for domestic manufacturing and could potentially create thousands of jobs within the country.

However, the F-21 faces stiff competition from other global contenders vying for the MMRCA contract. These include:

• Russia's MiG-35 and Su-35: Although Russia has been a traditional defense supplier for India, the country's recent focus on diversifying its sources may impact their chances.
• Boeing's F-15EX: Boeing has received approval to formally offer its advanced F-15EX fighter jet to India.
• France's Dassault Rafale: Already in service with the Indian Air Force, the Rafale is a strong contender, with France eager to secure further orders.
• European Eurofighter Typhoon: Known for its agility and versatility, the Typhoon is backed by a consortium of European nations.
• Sweden's Saab Gripen E: Saab is offering the Gripen E, highlighting its cost-effectiveness and advanced technology, along with significant technology transfer proposals.

The final decision on the MMRCA contract is expected to have a significant impact on the future of India's air power and its strategic defense partnerships.

Furthermore, the development of India's own fifth-generation fighter, the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), adds another layer of complexity to the decision-making process. The success of the AMCA program could potentially influence India's long-term reliance on foreign fighter jets like the F-35A.

 

[PKPRS]

Brazil is unhappy with GripenE's and gone for Rafales now...

I don’t think so, why would they buy Rafale when they are buying and making 36 more Gripen-E’s locally.

 

[sanket]

Now, to the second point: I am always dead-set against the MiG-35, as it is merely a rebranded MiG-29K. Heck, the F-21 atleast is supposed to have some upgrades over the F-16V, which is more than what can be said for the MiG-35. Even in case of the Su-35, I have maintained that if that aircraft were to win, it would simply be easier to build more Super Su-30MKIs with new engines.

MIG-35 Prduction Line is idle & Most important Thing of MRFA circus criteria is who ever wins have to start production line in Bharat with complete Eco-system so your Logic is wrong, Bharat wants Fighter from Locally Built Components have to b source from Locally .F-18 whether Line is closed or on Nothing to do with that Bharat wants a fighter selected under MRFA should b Exported too Not Just for IAF needs .winner will Get 3 to 4 years Time to set up Local Production Line with Eco-system Around Built so dont worry Fighter jets under MRFA are not going to b imported so there is no impact of whether Production Line is running or idle

 

[PKPRS]

Ha Ha Ha oh Then why Contender of MRFA like Euro-Fighter ,Su-35 are Bidding ,again after going production Line idle for Su-30 too Bharat is ordering additional Su-30 MKI Nice Logic from U

SU-35 didn’t participate in MRCA 1.0, only Rafale, Typhoon, F-16C/D, F/A-18E/F, JAS 39 Gripen, and MiG-35 did.

 

[sanket]

SU-35 didn’t participate in MRCA 1.0, only Rafale, Typhoon, F-16C/D, F/A-18E/F, JAS 39 Gripen, and MiG-35 did.

My point is Under MRFA Bharat want Fighter jet to b produced Locally with Eco-system built around & with Local vendor participation , his Logic is due to production Line going to b idle thats why F-18 is not contesting , Bharat is not Going to import any Fighter jet Under MRFA winner will get 3 to 4 years Time to start production Line with cmplete Eco-system built

 

[PKPRS]

My point is Under MRFA Bharat want Fighter jet to b produced Locally with Eco-system built around & with Local vendor participation , his Logic is due to production Line going to b idle thats why F-18 is not contesting , Bharat is not Going to import any Fighter jet Under MRFA winner will get 3 to 4 years Time to start production Line with cmplete Eco-system built

For local eco system LM is the best bet especially if they work with TATA, LM is also making a new variant of F35 for a unknown foreign customer, Dassault doesn't want to work with any Indian entity and do it themself which is a huge problem, SAAB is ready to work with HAL and shares the same GE F414 engine that will be locally made in India, here the scary part is HAL, wish they work with both HAL and some private partners like L&T or Mahindra or Ashok Leyland to make them in multiple production lines. F/A-18 is out of question and so does F15 and SU-35 because of Super Sukhoi program, MIG-35 doesn’t have a chance, EF-Typhoon has a outside chance if they transfer the production line to India, in my opinion both Gripen-E and F21 have greater chances, if not, MRFA will be dragged for few more years, and they will end up going for FGFA when the condition with Russia becomes ideal.

 

[Anant]

We never know, IAF likes MIG-29, they might experiment something like SU-30MKI that has components from Russia, French and Israel, to add to that now we have a list of locally made Indian components as well, so they might buy bare bones MIG-35 add components from all over the world, it’s lot of hassle, but we never know.

I have a partial disagreement with you on that matter. The MiG-35 still has many of the drawbacks of the MiG-29, and the RD-33MK engines have been proven to be less than ideal in service. Moreover, it is still a design from the mid-1970s, and unlike other designs from that period, has seen very little upgrading.

Sure, in theory, one can buy a barebones MiG-35 and fit in other subsystems, buy it'd still be a Tier 2 fighter counterpart to the Su-30MKI, and as such, would almost certainly be a very bad deal in the long run.

The MiG-29 is a pretty good aircraft, but it is a pretty good aircraft for up until a few years back. Today, it's decent. A decade and a half or so from now, it will be obsolete. MRFA jets will be serving till 2070 or so at the least, so the MiG-29 would be a fossil by then.

 

[Anant]

MIG-35 Prduction Line is idle & Most important Thing of MRFA circus criteria is who ever wins have to start production line in Bharat with complete Eco-system so your Logic is wrong, Bharat wants Fighter from Locally Built Components have to b source from Locally .F-18 whether Line is closed or on Nothing to do with that Bharat wants a fighter selected under MRFA should b Exported too Not Just for IAF needs .winner will Get 3 to 4 years Time to set up Local Production Line with Eco-system Around Built so dont worry Fighter jets under MRFA are not going to b imported so there is no impact of whether Production Line is running or idle

I know the MRFA jet is supposed to be built in India with a bunch of locally-sourced components, and should have 100% ToT (though that seems somewhat unlikely).

That said, exports of jets built in India will be a hard sell considering that no nation would like to simply outsource something like this. However, there may be some limited exports

Anyways, even if some muppet decided to select the MiG-35, Russia would be asked to move that line to India. The fact that they have an idle line there means Russia would push for production in Russia, but would still want to get the deal.

With that said, foreign production lines will impact production lines in India. The simple reason for this is that there would still be parts that would be imported, and a production line running in the OEM nation would impact that supply. At the same time, a dead production line (as is the MiG-35's case) would also impact a production line in India since those suppliers would also be sitting idle, and eventually would move on to other things.

 

[Joyel Don]

Absolutely and we have our own jewel in the crown AMCA which is better that F35. AMCA is a 5.5gen fighter made of today's tech whereas F35 was first flown in 2006.

wait wait wait . By the time we make our 5.5 gen AMCA they will start to produce new 6th gen fighters our programs are so late and put on delayed by far now its delayed almost few years . And we can understand our situation on Tejas its program started plus 40 years ago and we still have 36 of them and we are going on 5.5 gen aircraft which i'm sure will be not on production for a few decades. Its better we buy su 57s instead rather than buying from US or making by our self .We first had a deal to buy 114 su 57s i think then we rejected which is a big loss for iaf. We are fighting against a country which is aiming more than 1000 5th gen aircraft by 2030. And the other thing is if pakistan buys it i know they dont have that much money but still our su 30 mkis ,tejas, dassault rafale will never stand a chance against it and the next thing a war could break out any time now, against pakistan or china. Maybe a few years later also which will be way worse . Bharat surely will get affected from it even if we dont stand with any one . Our navy is weak which is the most integral part of india cause we have a very very long coast line . A war against pakistan is just like shooting goal into where there is no goal keeper but if china stand with it its bad . Really bad. Not being childish if i were to buy i would put the money Bharat puts money on agneveer scheme and amca program on buying new equipment from other countries .

 

[Konodioda]

My 2 problems with this chain of thought.

1. Russia doesn’t want to transfer us any fifth gen tech. They don’t want to transfer us any major tech at all, in fact. Remember FGFA? Mid way after investing 100s of millions, Russia increased the price, decreased their own orders and investments, and reduced HAL’s work share. So they are not at all ready to give us anything. Even for something like KA226, they have refused to transfer us even 35% of the tech. So forget fifth gen tech.

2. Assuming Russia does wanna transfer such tech, they should have it in the first place. IAF ditched the program after investing 100s of millions. Russian airforce itself cut down 70% of its own orders and went with more Su35 indeed. China was offered Su57 but they refused it, unofficially saying that their own planes are far ahead. No one so far has shown any interest in Su75 either. So it’s clear that anyone who has seen Russian fifth gen tech finds it inferior to even western fourth gen tech.

Ok, let me explain why it is said that only Russia is the source country of India's fifth generation fighter jet technology.
The reason why Russia does not transfer fifth generation aircraft technology to India is because this technology is the most advanced for Russia, and no country is willing to transfer its most advanced technology to other countries.
When the United States successfully developed the F-22, Japan prepared to purchase it, but the US legislation refused to export the F-22 and instead exported the slightly inferior F-35. This is because in the 1970s, the United States sold Iran its most advanced F-14, and later regretted it, even destroying all retired F-14s to prevent Iranians from buying F-14 parts on the black market. Now the United States only allows its allies to purchase F-35 instead of selling technology.
When Pakistan purchased the J-20 from China, China politely refused and instead sold the J-31/35 with lower performance. Similarly, China did not transfer technology to Pakistan.
Nowadays, Russia, like the United States, hopes that India will purchase finished products or assemble them in India. India hopes to acquire all the technology, which is obviously impossible. Only when the Russians have developed better technology can they possibly transfer the existing technology to India, which takes time.
For the United States, even though the F-16 and F-15 are no longer as advanced, the radar, electronic systems, engines, and other technologies used in these aircraft are not sold to the outside world. For example, the engine used in the KF-21 from South Korea is the F-414, not the more advanced F110 series, and South Korea only uses it without transferring production technology. If India applies to the United States for more advanced engine technology, they will only say two words, it's impossible, and pay more money.

 

[sanket]

I know the MRFA jet is supposed to be built in India with a bunch of locally-sourced components, and should have 100% ToT (though that seems somewhat unlikely).

That said, exports of jets built in India will be a hard sell considering that no nation would like to simply outsource something like this. However, there may be some limited exports

Anyways, even if some muppet decided to select the MiG-35, Russia would be asked to move that line to India. The fact that they have an idle line there means Russia would push for production in Russia, but would still want to get the deal.

With that said, foreign production lines will impact production lines in India. The simple reason for this is that there would still be parts that would be imported, and a production line running in the OEM nation would impact that supply. At the same time, a dead production line (as is the MiG-35's case) would also impact a production line in India since those suppliers would also be sitting idle, and eventually would move on to other things.

Your Logic F-18 production Line going idle is childish its short comings for F-18 thats why boeing is pitching F-15Ex thats why it may have been withdrawn under MRFA Fighter jet will b produce Locally

 

[Akshat]

Ok, let me explain why it is said that only Russia is the source country of India's fifth generation fighter jet technology.
The reason why Russia does not transfer fifth generation aircraft technology to India is because this technology is the most advanced for Russia, and no country is willing to transfer its most advanced technology to other countries.
When the United States successfully developed the F-22, Japan prepared to purchase it, but the US legislation refused to export the F-22 and instead exported the slightly inferior F-35. This is because in the 1970s, the United States sold Iran its most advanced F-14, and later regretted it, even destroying all retired F-14s to prevent Iranians from buying F-14 parts on the black market. Now the United States only allows its allies to purchase F-35 instead of selling technology.
When Pakistan purchased the J-20 from China, China politely refused and instead sold the J-31/35 with lower performance. Similarly, China did not transfer technology to Pakistan.
Nowadays, Russia, like the United States, hopes that India will purchase finished products or assemble them in India. India hopes to acquire all the technology, which is obviously impossible. Only when the Russians have developed better technology can they possibly transfer the existing technology to India, which takes time.
For the United States, even though the F-16 and F-15 are no longer as advanced, the radar, electronic systems, engines, and other technologies used in these aircraft are not sold to the outside world. For example, the engine used in the KF-21 from South Korea is the F-414, not the more advanced F110 series, and South Korea only uses it without transferring production technology. If India applies to the United States for more advanced engine technology, they will only say two words, it's impossible, and pay more money.

Still doesn’t answer how we can expect Russia to give us fifth gen tech before we make AMCA.

 

[tipoo2]

So Rafale is also vintage, pretty much every fighter jet in the competition is vintage except Gripen-E and after that SU-35.

If that's the standard then yes, they're either all vintage or the F16 isn't. But even the Gripen E is more like an F16 block upgrade, the airframe itself is mostly the same as the older platform.

 

[PKPRS]

If that's the standard then yes, they're either all vintage or the F16 isn't. But even the Gripen E is more like an F16 block upgrade, the airframe itself is mostly the same as the older platform.

if all are vintage, among all the jets in the competition, only F16 Block-72/F-21 has the longest service life 12,000 hours, Gripen-E and Rafale have a service life of 8000 hours.

 

[Konodioda]

Still doesn’t answer how we can expect Russia to give us fifth gen tech before we make AMCA.

I have explained that it is only after the Russians develop more advanced technology that they can transfer technology to India

 

[shekhar]

America don't get Fighter Jet order from India. It's confirm. Only jet that India might consider is F35 only because of delay in AMCA, otherwise no American jets 🙏

 

[Akshat]

I have explained that it is only after the Russians develop more advanced technology that they can transfer technology to India

They have refused to transfer us the tech or even Ka226, a decades old platform which itself has been rejected by Russian forces. So the argument doesn’t hold water.

And you still couldn’t answer the second part. How can Russia transfer any tech when it itself doesn’t have fifth gen tech?

 

[desigandu]

In my opinion, India should scrap MRFA, formally request for F-35As and do a G2G while adhering to some american. strings….

Rafales are clearly not 5th gen, and we will have 5th gen flying in Pakistan and China in very large numbers.b y 2030, while our AMCA will only fly by 2035 - so we will be screwed/exposed.

My proposed solution is to accelerate Tejas Mk2, buy 50 F-35s, accelerate AMCA and the high thrust engine by standing up, bankrolling a private sector player like tata (as HAL is incapable to deliver on time) by GOI and throwing lots of money/incentives at domestic production. Rafales may be capable but we can’t afford $20-25B on 4th gen.

 

[Bhupesh Desai]

No Fighter jets from US stick to your own indegenious development including engine. Do not trust anyone else except your own capabilities.

 

[desigandu]

AMCA doesn't exist, and that 5.5th generation claim is still unsubstantiated.

AMCA may not be available at scale before 2040, unless something dramatically changes in the next 10 years…and Rafales though capable are not 5th gen, too expensive, won’t be available before 2032-2035, and besides solving for our depleting numbers don’t get us more capability…

Of course i don’t have a magic wand…
A classic Indian quandary with no easy solutions…

 

[Bijaya Kumar Sahu]

US Fighter jets don't fit in to our requirements. All arms, ammunition will be dictate by US. They won't share source code to integrate Indian missiles.

 

[desigandu]

Here goes dreams of all f35 supporters, now go and procure f35, as for reality Rafael and su 57 are the only options

My prediction is no more major Russian weapon systems will be brought by Bharat, unless something changes dramatically geopolitically…

Russia is now dependent on China for its survival, and that is unlikely to change soon.

 

[R. Singh]

Recent attack by IAF (Israel air force) on Lebanon, shows that F-15EX and GBU combo is deadly for enemies and F-35 armed with MUMT and recently developed hyper sonic missile by US will make it valuable asset ! Second IAF the Indian air force must buy made in India these fighters ! Have pro active approach there will be no point when PAF start flying J-31 and KAAN fighters !

 

[Mayank Shukla]

Imagine India ordering 200 Rafale in 2007 itself when it was L1 and all make in India.
French would gone crazy now we have increased Rafale price and demand without ourselves getting anything substantial.

 

[M.H.]

Brazil is unhappy with GripenE's and gone for Rafales now...

Brazil has not opted for the Rafale and is not unhappy with the Gripen. In fact, they are very pleased with the aircraft, as they are thinking of increasing the original order...

 

[Avinash Kumar]

It is absolutely very clear from the facts available that India must not buy anything else than a 5th gen jet fighters. This could be either F 35 or SU 57. Let the experts to decide for the one which is better.Furthermore the number such unit must never be more than 50.Rest of all be taken care of by making of Tejas MK 1 A, Tejas MK 2 and upgradation of SU 30 MK I.