Tejas Fuels Demand for Specialized F404-IN20 Engines: HAL and GE to Address Engine Delays

India's commitment to its indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas program is growing stronger.

Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) and the Indian Air Force (IAF) are solidifying plans for an additional 97 Tejas Mk1A fighter jets.

This ambitious expansion brings unique challenges and opportunities, especially regarding the heart of the aircraft – its powerful GE F404-IN20 engines.

Challenges and Collaboration​

Before the order's finalization, HAL and GE officials are set to meet in Bangalore.

A key point of discussion will be addressing unresolved issues from a previous engine contract, including delays in the delivery of 99 F404-IN20 engines for the earlier batch of 83 Tejas Mk1A jets.

These delays were due to supply chain issues and global disruptions caused by the COVID-19 pandemic.

The Unique Powerplant​

The F404-IN20 is no ordinary engine. It stands out as the most powerful variant of the F404 family, boasting a thrust output of 84kN.

Enhancements like a higher-flow fan, the advanced FADEC system, and single-crystal turbine blades place this engine at the cutting edge of technology.

It's worth noting that, due to a previous lack of orders, production of this specific variant had come to a halt until HAL's order revived it.

Meeting Increased Demand​

Before the recent surge in Tejas orders, GE's production of the F404-IN20 slowed significantly.

HAL's last order prior to 2021 was placed back in 2007. GE is now playing catch up, having delivered 75 engines (including older models used in prototypes) to HAL.

GE intends to steadily increase production to 20 F404-IN20 engines per year. However, HAL's need for over 120 new engines will require GE to push production even further, to an annual output of 24-30 units.

Conclusion​

The LCA Tejas program represents India's growing ambitions in aerospace. The evolving partnership with GE on the F404-IN20 engine is crucial for the program's continued success.

Addressing production challenges and meeting expanded demand will be essential for fulfilling India's plans to equip its Air Force with a formidable homegrown fighter.

 

[Sudha]

Was HAL sleeping when it designed tejasmk1a knowing fully well that GE has stopped production of F404 engines? As usual a hobbyist attitude towards production by HAL is making Bharat's security weak mainly due to low & late deliveries.

 

[Anuj]

India should ask for TOT and it is better to have complete control over supply chain.

 

[Pink Panther]

Until India buys either F15 or F21 this will drag on.

 

[desigandu]

For GE the F-404s are not important or a big money spinner, as maybe only India needs it...GE has moved on to variable cycle (NGAD) and other engines especially in the civilian sector...We need to plan better and look at supply chain and its constraints when we put critical system dependencies...This will be a bottleneck and we should have asked GE to transfer the supply line/assembly to India either with a partner or alone, to solve for it...This may not get solved and we may have to cancel the additional 97 Mk1A orders...Let us learn from our follies, accelerate F-414s with domestic production and accelerate MK2s which will help along with AMCA and TEDBF...India must become atmanirbhar in critical areas (Kaveri-2, 140KN high thrust engine etc...) fast - there is no other long term solution.

 

[NSR]

Go for negotiations for manufacturing of GE F-404 engine on the same lines of GE F-414 with 80% TOT.

India has a present requirement of 200 Tejas IA and the numbers will go up more as domestic and foreign exports materializes.
The numbers may grow to 300+ easily.

Every fighter needs 2 engines through his useful life. So India needs about 600+ GE F-404 engines.
USA is already having qualified people in defense fields.
So, Negotiate and sew up a local manufacturing deal immediately.

 

[abhinav srivastava]

Order 25% more than currently required. Some of them can be used in mid-life upgrades and others can be used for export orders, if they happen.

 

[SURESH RAO]

GE already delivered 55 F404-IN20.

Out of these 55 F404-IN20 Engines, 40 already being used for Tejas MK1. Remaining, 15 will be used for MK1a during 2024-25

More F404-IN20 Engines will start flowing in from 2025.

 

[The_rED_dEVIL]

Let us learn from our follies, accelerate F-414s with domestic production and accelerate MK2s which will help along with AMCA and TEDBF.

Maybe there is a chance to ramp up F404 production. If T-7 Red Hawk trainer wins contract to replace T-38 Talon in USAF. T-7 jet uses F404 engines.

Also, this is why GTRE Kaveri was important to be ready for production by 2027. (Could have got 120 engine order easily) Engine development is one of the major drawbacks of DRDO.

 

[agent provocateur]

Was HAL sleeping when it designed tejasmk1a knowing fully well that GE has stopped production of F404 engines? As usual a hobbyist attitude towards production by HAL is making Bharat's security weak mainly due to low & late deliveries.

Identical case with DRDO and the German MTU engines. They been importing them since 1989 and their nonsensical stubbornness to deny space to private industry results in zero localisation of the engines.
MTU stopped producing those engines and DRDO is using Youtubers to blame MTU.

 

[sanket]

wow An established player Like GE cant Fulfill its order , if they cant complete order why they signed the deal , Dassault Aviation delivered all 36 Rafale within 66 Months the deal signed .production rate too very Low .secondly Its GE who developed an Uprated GE-404 IN20 which is highest thrust variant in GE-404 Familiy which produces 84 kN. they why fail to deliver in time when contract was signed . it should have planned accordingly. Eurojet was another bidder when GE won the bidding it should b knowing more business to come after that too till then then iwas thinking only HAL has under 16 production rate But even establish players too have 16 per year production rate .i think some variants are also used by either korean or Saab too

 

[The Presence]

Identical case with DRDO and the German MTU engines. They been importing them since 1989 and their nonsensical stubbornness to deny space to private industry results in zero localisation of the engines.
MTU stopped producing those engines and DRDO is using Youtubers to blame MTU.

The engine selection of Arjun is a botched up process by itself.
Instead of selecting the engine of the new Leopard-2, they chose to crank-up the engine of the old Leopard-1 and use that instead. More than half the items in this 'indigenous' tank was imported.
Unsurprisingly as a result, the tank was plagued with issues & 75% of the fleet was grounded for 2 whole years.

 

[charminar_waale_ismail_bhai]

General Electic is playing hardball.
20 engines annually, really?

Has GE also recruited HAL employees? Why so slow with the engine?

India should speed up the Kaveri engine project and bring it upto a point where it can replace the GE-F404 at least.

 

[Sandeep]

Currently HAL are producing less than 20 jets per year so even if GE can supply 20 engines per year then there's not going to be any shortage of engines that will impact our production of Tejas MK1A jets. Also they should setup a MRO facilities in India because these engines will be in service for a long time unless Kaveri will replace it. There's a small chance that it could as once they receive the afterburner section from its original indigenous core it could produce enough power.

Also another possibility is to replace the F404 engines with the F414 once the first F404 engine finishes its lifecycle as with the F414 engines about 80% of the technology will be transferred and it will be made in India.

 

[Shiva]

Surprisingly, even after a decade, why GE did not have its own production line in India and enhance production line capacity depending on increased demand with happiness and eagerness.
Why Indian Govt or other companies has to make a special request??!!!
Why GE is not happy with increase in demand!!!
Why is it slowing down itself!!!

 

[Swaminathan]

Was HAL sleeping when it designed tejasmk1a knowing fully well that GE has stopped production of F404 engines? As usual a hobbyist attitude towards production by HAL is making Bharat's security weak mainly due to low & late deliveries.

God ! When will our woes regarding delayed deliveries, arm twistings end ?

 

[ramdas]

On what basis IAF will consider US weapons platforms in the MRFA deal, if this is their response on orders already placed. US is deliberately playing politics.

 

[Sathish Kumaram]

The engine selection of Arjun is a botched up process by itself.
Instead of selecting the engine of the new Leopard-2, they chose to crank-up the engine of the old Leopard-1 and use that instead. More than half the items in this 'indigenous' tank was imported.
Unsurprisingly as a result, the tank was plagued with issues & 75% of the fleet was grounded for 2 whole years.

the ICE engine technology is not much complicated which is used in tanks why we are still struggling..god alone need to help these fellas.

 

[Arz786]

Was HAL sleeping when it designed tejasmk1a knowing fully well that GE has stopped production of F404 engines? As usual a hobbyist attitude towards production by HAL is making Bharat's security weak mainly due to low & late deliveries.

There are two root causes for this attitude IMHO.

1. Typical DPSU attitude is that : 'Supplier will be blamed in case of supply bottleneck. I will not be blamed'. Now it works at the level of DGM/ GM/ ED of individual divisions. But at Chairman/ board level, they have to take responsibility in its entirety.
2. DPSU work culture, even at senior level, is an exercise in fire-fighting and short term tactical thinking - devoid of long terms strategic thinking. Partly because tenures of Chairman/ board members are short and human being tends to think of his/her term/tenure only. Put both together and voila! you have what you have today.