US Hesitant to Share Full F414 Engine Tech with India Due to Close Defence Ties with Russia: Financial Times

India is poised to enter the elite club of nations capable of manufacturing indigenous fighter jet engines, a significant advancement for its defence industry. Currently, this complex technology is mastered only by the permanent members of the UN Security Council: China, France, Russia, the UK, and the US.

As India seeks to develop a cutting-edge engine for its next-generation fighter jets, it is fielding offers from several global defence giants, including France's Safran, the UK's Rolls-Royce, and the US's General Electric (GE).

While all three nations are eager to partner with India, the offer from GE comes with a caveat. According to a recent report by the Financial Times, the US is hesitant to share the complete intellectual property (IP) for its F414 engine due to concerns stemming from India's long-standing defence relationship with Russia.

Sources indicate that the US government is apprehensive about potential technology transfer to Russia, given the close ties between Moscow and New Delhi. This hesitation has led to a proposed co-development model where a small portion of the IP would be withheld.

Despite this limitation, some analysts believe that the US proposal remains a strong contender. Amit Cowshish, a former senior official in India's Ministry of Defence, suggests that Washington's global influence and established defence relations with India could give their offer significant weight.

"The Americans could possibly be pushing harder with the kind of clout they have, which is much more than that of any other country," Cowshish stated, emphasizing the strategic partnership between the two nations.

However, Safran and Rolls-Royce have presented competing offers that include full transfer of IP rights to India. These proposals would grant India complete control over the technology, including the right to export co-developed engines.

Safran's chairman, Ross McInnes, publicly addressed India's Defence Conclave earlier this month, assuring them of Safran's commitment and contrasting their offer of full IP transfer with that of "other western partners," in an apparent jab at the US.

Rolls-Royce has also expressed a strong interest in collaborating with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), India's state-owned aerospace company, to develop a customized engine for India's Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) program. This fifth-generation fighter jet is a key component of India's pursuit of self-reliance in defence technology.

The competition to secure this partnership with India highlights the country's growing importance in the global defence market. India's ambitious military modernization plans aim to bolster its defence manufacturing capabilities through strategic collaborations with leading aerospace companies.

For India, the decision goes beyond immediate technological gains. It involves a complex evaluation of long-term strategic partnerships, defence autonomy, and the desire to reduce reliance on foreign imports, all while ensuring control over any co-developed technology.

The outcome of this decision holds significant implications for India's defence landscape. Joining the ranks of fighter jet engine manufacturers would further solidify India's position as a rising global power in defence technology.

 

[Sivbal]

Until unless we are a treaty ally with USA, they will not share 100% of their Tech. Even for their treaty allies they didn't share 100%ToT. Look at SKorea and Japan, they are only license producing the American engines.
This F414 Engine ToT saga is to pull us from Russian Sphere of influence and nothing else. I am not sure whether HAL has full capability to absorb all the technologies from GE even if it is 80% ToT....I think knowing this only GE is claiming 80% ToT because HAL will not allow Private sector and try to make everything inhouse and finally turn to GE itself for readymade modules so that they can be assembled back in India. Same as SU-30MKI AL-31FP engine.

 

[Blademaster]

We have to get the Kaveri engine program on track. GE-414 engine technology is not that critical to US national security. It just gives them leverage. We have to deny that leverage to the US.

 

[sanket]

They cant supply single even after 4th deadline & what to expect 100% ToT GE Chai samosa, US might also pressure to buy one of its Fighter Jets under MRFA .GE will likely to offer GE-414 as a base for developing 110 kN for AMCA Engine , GE already holds IPR for that engine how will they do 100% with add-on of 5th Gen features in that Engine.

 

[M S ChatterjiVerified member]

Wrong …. China has not mastered the jet engine technology. They have copied a few Russian engines.

 

[sanket]

Wrong …. China has not mastered the jet engine technology. They have copied a few Russian engines.

China whether steal,copy, Reverse Engginered whatever as a base But thay have developed remaining Tech on its own thats it w-series are able to Fly the Fighter jet.

 

[Instant Karma]

China whether steal,copy, Reverse Engginered whatever as a base But thay have developed remaining Tech on its own thats it w-series are able to Fly the Fighter jet.

Those are copy of Russian engine's.

 

[MANIVANNAN N]

All will delay 100% tech transfer for a decade. So that they develop advanced engines. And will give inferior engine to india.

 

[Chinese eater]

They cant supply single even after 4th deadline & what to expect 100% ToT GE Chai samosa, US might also pressure to buy one of its Fighter Jets under MRFA .GE will likely to offer GE-414 as a base for developing 110 kN for AMCA Engine , GE already holds IPR for that engine how will they do 100% with add-on of 5th Gen features in that Engine.

American policy is to prolong the negotiations, lead to the time when they are only the seller and then drags to coierse into towing American lines.

now if India backs out then India has already lost 10-15 years in the project. America wins here.

 

[Chinese eater]

Go with the seller who signs for 100% TOT with full IP rights. Or else India would be on same page even after 15-20 years into the project

 

[Sudha]

Total disinformation. Bharat has produced an aero engine Kaveri which seems to performing well but with not the required output. If France gives the TOT for advanced materials tech, then Kaveri will be performing with better output.

 

[Sudha]

Go with the seller who signs for 100% TOT with full IP rights. Or else India would be on same page even after 15-20 years into the project

Not necessarily on the same page for Kaveri will be upgraded when Bharat has mastered the "advance material" tech.

 

[Sudha]

They cant supply single even after 4th deadline & what to expect 100% ToT GE Chai samosa, US might also pressure to buy one of its Fighter Jets under MRFA .GE will likely to offer GE-414 as a base for developing 110 kN for AMCA Engine , GE already holds IPR for that engine how will they do 100% with add-on of 5th Gen features in that Engine.

All know US is unreliable that is why Bharat has approached France & UK. UK might cave in due to US pressure. BTW the F404 engine fiasco is purely HAL's wrong decision. If HAL had gone for F414 stead of F404, GE could not have given supply line excuse & US's geopolitical fangs would have been clearly visible by not only Bharat but the whole world. GE could not have given "supply line" excuse if it was F414.

 

[M S ChatterjiVerified member]

Since we have GE engines for MK1, Mk1a, & Mk2, it is good idea to have GE to do the 110kn engine work.

On the other hand GE supply can be blocked by US government if they don’t like Indian political system any time in the future. It is easy for them to manufacture Pannu type affair or worst pay somebody to start riots in India like they did in Bangladesh and block engine critical part supply.

My vote is for Safran. They should keep price low.

 

[PKPRS]

All know US is unreliable that is why Bharat has approached France & UK. UK might cave in due to US pressure. BTW the F404 engine fiasco is purely HAL's wrong decision. If HAL had gone for F414 stead of F404, GE could not have given supply line excuse & US's geopolitical fangs would have been clearly visible by not only Bharat but the whole world. GE could not have given "supply line" excuse if it was F414.

A-least UK gave us so much freedom in Jaguar, Hawker Siddeley, Harrier jump jet and many engines in the past, we could able to upgrade ourself free of cost as they gave us access to the source code, we didn’t pay $60Mln to upgrade each jet every time, now US is giving 80% TOT on GE-F414, what did France give except charging $300bln for Rafale, useless $60Mln upgrade for each Mirage, not meeting a single offset obligation.

 

[Pramkumar]

Develop the Fighters around the Kaveri Engine, We can get our own 95-98 KN, 110KN and 130KN Derivatives easily during the same period, if we use the Kaveri withn78KN only.

 

[Shiva]

he he.
Recent HAL submission of AL-31FP engine shows India is capable of making 110kN engine. India is already habituated indigenising this engine year after year. So, Indian ability to indigenize engine development is inevitable.

With Russia coopeartion, India will be able to create new engines for all the existing Sukoi fighter jets and already India acquired capacity to enhance its capacity to defeat not just F-16 but also Rafael and F-21 and infact it has a projected capacity to deal with any 5th Gen aircraft including F-35. Also life time of the Sukoi force will be easily extended to 2055 at least. Even later , India can create one more new engine set and extend its lifetime. So, currency urgency to have AMCA or anyother fighter jet is now out of scope.

Any delay tactics by US through GE , is now out of scope. Now the pressure is on US (GE). In case if they delay providing engines to AMCA, then it will eventually lose its credibility and trustability in Indian capacity enhacement, which in turn will affect other critical technology development. So, it is up to the US, whether it will give free hand to India to make a joint force in the form RIC, as expected from Russia, or wants to maintain good relations with India by maintianing trust factor. So, now India is not in critical situation. Now ball is in the US court.

More over, there is an existing analysis that, with a little modification of AMCA & Tejas with two changes, the first beign replaing engine with AL-31FP and increasing fuel by 80/100 kg more, will changes the AMCA and Tejas with superior performance than the products developed with the existing design .

The production capacity of HAL for AL-31FP engine will be far higher than that of the production capacity available by GE for Indian needs. This point eventually will pave a way, even to not to face any critical issues because of non cooperation from GE.

Also, already India is in a good form to make indigenous kaveri deviative engine development for 5.5 Gen aricraft completely by 2047 without depending on any other country.

So, overall,
no country will be in a positino to blackmail India by keeping a pin in their hand.

So, these kind of discussions, does not make sense to Indian needs.

 

[Amit Ray]

Most news about Chinese defence items are unsubstantiated and not exactly reliable.

 

[Vijigishu ( विजिग्शु )]

No company or country will give us such an advanced critical tech which is keeping them ahead of others. In fact we ourselves wouldn't have been giving such tech any nation.

The journey of self reliance have to be walked with our own feet. We should take help but we have to master the aero engine tech ourselves.

 

[Muthukumar Ponnambalam]

And India still goes after GE - which has the history of giving up on India and stabbing on its back, rejecting Safran and Rolls Royce which agreed for 100 % TOT.

WHY ?

 

[BCharlie]

American policy is to prolong the negotiations, lead to the time when they are only the seller and then drags to coierse into towing American lines.

now if India backs out then India has already lost 10-15 years in the project. America wins here.

They way its going, our desperation will make us buy anything they offer, even trash equipment..

 

[Sandeep]

And India still goes after GE - which has the history of giving up on India and stabbing on its back, rejecting Safran and Rolls Royce which agreed for 100 % TOT.

WHY ?

They haven’t chosen GE. It’s going to be Safran.

 

[Sandeep]

India will make a deal with Safran. They will develop a brand new engine together and give 100% of the technology, manufacture 100% in India and with indigenous content.

RR are claiming the same deal but they often support USA in their foreign policy and can pressure India by delaying development etc. Also GE have clearly said that they won’t give us 100% of the technology so it’s pointless making a deal with them under a license. Also they often use their technology to exert pressure and influence on us if we didn’t follow them or do what they expect.

 

[Raja Raja Cholan]

If this piece of news is from reliable sources then it would be wise decision for the GoI and defence ministry officials to seriously consider the proposals from other reputable fighter aircraft engine producers such as Safran and Rolls Royce. For now to meet our immediate requirements the GoI has made a deal with GE. But MoD must take proactive measures to evaluate the deals offered by Safran and Rolls Royce and conclude it through win win approach appealing to ToT and make in India policy. This deal should be concluded before the GE deal expires. MoD taking too much time dragging their feet in their decision making is what causes massive delays to lag far behind in our timely progress.

 

[Robert Mathew]

India must consider partnering France. Anyway, just like the cryogenic engine, if only India could come out of the jinx to produce on her own, Surely, India surely will be the eagle of the sky.

 

[Raja Raja Cholan]

Wrong …. China has not mastered the jet engine technology. They have copied a few Russian engines.

Yes I agree with you but why can't Indians do the same like the chinese. While working with Russian fighter for ages we could have used the opportunity. The Russians knew very well that the chinese buggers have previously copied Russian fighter aircraft designs and Su35 engines to master aircraft technology and have successfully progressed tremendously. The Russians themselves have acknowledged that. They copied every fighter aircraft technology from the US through various tactics using hacking, honey trap, monetary rewards and chinese scientists, engineers. Out of all these methods there was one Indian scientist who supplied vital technology information to the chinese officials for a meagre amount of money. Utilising the great knowledge and experience from Russian fighters could have brought Indian in par or ahead of the chinese. But we didn't take the opportunity at our door step, a missed opportunity.

 

[linus52]

Wrong …. China has not mastered the jet engine technology. They have copied a few Russian engines.

So what dumb could have done same but f*k baboos would not make their commission. Gov should throw in $1 billion to private with timeline to prove Kaveri

 

[sunilanalysis]

if India moved fast acquiring ukraine engines company some years back instead of kaveri mythology this stage would not have come...
Mostly ruling and opposition were busy with politics and living in appeasements.

 

[muthyms]

Why not India go for Rolce Royce engine where U K is prepared to give cent percent technology transfer besides the most important IPR rights?

 

[Cp Saraswat]

France made 110kN engine is best for Indias AMCA Programme.

100% TOT
France will definitely help india to compete against USA ... cause US did wrong / cheated France by cheAUKUS submarine deal ...

France is definitely 100% going against US to help indian....it's better deal and opportunity for India...