Opinion Why India Should Not Choose French Safran for AMCA 110kN Engine? Taking Lessons from Previous Kaveri-M88 Collaboration for Tejas

Why India Should Not Choose French Safran for AMCA 110kN Engine? Taking Lessons from Previous Kaveri-M88 Collaboration for Tejas


India's pursuit of a domestically produced 110kN engine for its Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) program has brought it to the negotiating table with French engine manufacturer Safran.

However, past experiences and technological disparities raise serious questions about the wisdom of this partnership, particularly concerning technology transfer.

A former employee of India's Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE), the organization responsible for developing indigenous engine technology, recently voiced strong concerns about the ongoing negotiations, characterizing the discussions as unproductive.

The ex-official, speaking on the condition of anonymity, warned that France has a history of making ambitious promises regarding technology transfer but failing to deliver fully. This pattern, the source suggests, could put India's fifth-generation fighter program at risk.

The official cited a previous attempt in the early 2010s to co-develop a hybrid engine for the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) program. This involved combining elements of India's Kaveri engine with Safran's M88 engine, which powers the Rafale fighter jet.

The technology transfer offered by the French at the time was reportedly minimal, focusing on less critical components. Safran, the official stated, insisted on retaining intellectual property rights (IPR) for the core of the M88-2 engine, the most crucial part for performance. This disagreement ultimately led GTRE to abandon the collaboration.

The proposed M88-Kaveri hybrid was also limited to 83-85kN of thrust. This was insufficient for the Tejas Mk2's 98kN thrust requirement, and suitable only for Tejas Mk1.

Moreover, Safran required a minimum order of 300 engines, a number that did not align with the Indian Air Force's (IAF) needs, which at one point included studying a "universal" engine for both Tejas Mk1 and Mk2.

Another point of contention raised was a "technical audit" of the Kaveri engine, reportedly conducted by a French team as part of the 2016 Rafale fighter jet deal. While the French team cleared the Kaveri for flight testing, the former GTRE employee downplayed the significance of their contribution.

The source claimed that GTRE had already resolved most of the major issues of Kaveri, including problems within the engine's core, before the audit. Subsequent collaboration with General Electric (GE) of the United States, according to the official, proved more beneficial in addressing remaining technical hurdles.

These past experiences are particularly relevant as India considers Safran as a partner for the AMCA's 110kN engine, a crucial component for the stealth fighter's performance. The former GTRE insider expressed skepticism about France's current proposals, highlighting a significant technological gap.

The official pointed out that Safran had been unwilling to share technology for a fourth-generation engine (the M88) previously, and now proposes co-development of a fifth-generation engine, a technology they have not yet developed themselves.

Indeed, while countries like the United States (with the F135 engine for the F-35 and ongoing adaptive engine programs) and Russia (with the Izdeliye 30 for the Su-57) have operational or developing fifth-generation engines, France's current offering, the M88, is a design dating back to the 1980s with a maximum thrust of around 75kN (with afterburner).

This disparity, the former official argued, casts doubt on France's ability to contribute meaningfully to the AMCA engine project. The successful development of a powerful and reliable engine is crucial for the AMCA to meet its performance goals, and any shortcomings in technology transfer could significantly impede India's progress towards achieving self-reliance in defense technology.
 
Don't pay till they deliver substantially.
I think GE will finally give everything.
GE with ceramic core will update F414 to 125 KN and this will be the game changer.
All four Safran,GE ,Rolls Royce and Russians will not give what india is asking for since that will create their own competitor since manufacturing costs of india will be far lesser than them
 
Don't pay till they deliver substantially.
I think GE will finally give everything.
GE with ceramic core will update F414 to 125 KN and this will be the game changer.
All four Safran,GE ,Rolls Royce and Russians will not give what india is asking for since that will create their own competitor since manufacturing costs of india will be far lesser than them
GE will give but not intellectual property rights but technology will be reliable
 
Better to Go with 3 vendor concepts
Use 3 Sources as Leverage who ever share More Give order More
Simple So much of Documentation for Validation will eat Time and energy
 
Better we go with GE for AMCA engine but with IP Rights or ink deal with Rolls Royce to jointly develop 125+ KN engine and last option to go with Russia to seek 100% for AMCA engine !
 
Better we go with GE for AMCA engine but with IP Rights or ink deal with Rolls Royce to jointly develop 125+ KN engine and last option to go with Russia to seek 100% for AMCA engine !
Don't know if the entry of Trump changes the attitude of GE but right now GE doesn't seem to be reliable..
Sarfran and RR need not be considered as they don't have the 5th generation Engine know how but only proposed to co- develop.
If not GE, then Russia is the only option as it comes with ToT
 
It's high time the govt and DRDO should listen to public opinion particularly domain experts outside DRDO while taking decisions. Who knows, who are all showing partiality and has fascination for a particular supplier? India should go with those, who give full ToT without any rider. Eliminate whoever has taken india for a ride
 
I think time has changed.Renegotiate with GE.
We are getting GE F404 for TejasMk1.
We are going for local production of F414 for Tejas Mk2 and AMCA prototypes.
It will be wise to collaborate with GE for a 110kn version of this engine in partnership and IP rights.
 

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