How Indian Scorpène Submarines with DRDO Fuel-Cell AIP Poised to Outpace Pakistan's Stirling engine-based Hangor-class Fleet

Recent claims by Commodore (R) Syed Muhammad Obaidullah of the Pakistan Navy, suggesting the superiority of Pakistan's Chinese-supplied Hangor-class submarines over India's French-designed Scorpène-class submarines, have sparked debate regarding the technological capabilities of these vessels.

While Obaidullah emphasized the advantage of the Chinese Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) system in the Hangor-class, a closer examination reveals a more nuanced picture.

The Hangor-class, derived from China's Type 039A Yuan-class, utilizes a Stirling engine-based AIP system. While this technology allows for extended underwater endurance compared to conventional diesel-electric submarines, it is not the most advanced AIP system available. Stirling engines require liquid oxygen and are not as efficient or quiet as newer AIP systems.

In contrast, India's Scorpène-class submarines are being upgraded with a domestically developed Fuel-Cell AIP system. This technology, developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), is expected to provide significant advantages over the Stirling-based system employed in the Hangor-class.

Fuel-cell AIP systems are known for their superior stealth capabilities due to reduced noise generation. They produce electricity through a chemical reaction, resulting in higher energy efficiency and longer underwater endurance without the need for frequent surfacing. Furthermore, fuel-cell systems require less maintenance compared to the more mechanically complex Stirling engines.

Moreover, the Hangor-class submarines are equipped with Chinese-made diesel generators. Naval analysts suggest these generators are louder than the German MTU engines originally intended for these submarines but were unavailable due to export restrictions. This increased noise signature could compromise the submarines' stealth capabilities.

While the Hangor-class submarines undoubtedly enhance Pakistan's naval capabilities, claims of their absolute superiority over the Scorpène-class require careful consideration. The integration of the DRDO's Fuel-Cell AIP system into the Indian submarines is likely to shift the balance in terms of technological sophistication and operational effectiveness.

 

[PKPRS]

It seems last month the Indian Navy lost track of a Pakistan Augosta class AIP-equipped submarine and had to send P8 and Sea Guardian to search for it in the entire Arabian Sea area but couldn’t find it for three weeks. That submarine eventually surfaced and was found near Karachi. There is talk that it came up to Gujarat. We are in a precarious situation. If MoD don’t do something fast, we are in real danger.

 

[Anant]

It seems last month the Indian Navy lost track of a Pakistan Augosta class AIP-equipped submarine and had to send P8 and Sea Guardian to search for it in the entire Arabian Sea area but couldn’t find it for three weeks. That submarine eventually surfaced and was found near Karachi. There is talk that it came up to Gujarat. We are in a precarious situation. If MoD don’t do something fast, we are in real danger.

Source?

 

[ARIJIT]

Source?

Source Geo news pakisthan 😝

 

[Parthasarathi DasGupta]

We should ask Japan to share lithium ion battery technology. It will solve problems with some extent.

 

[Ayush raj]

It seems last month the Indian Navy lost track of a Pakistan Augosta class AIP-equipped submarine and had to send P8 and Sea Guardian to search for it in the entire Arabian Sea area but couldn’t find it for three weeks. That submarine eventually surfaced and was found near Karachi. There is talk that it came up to Gujarat. We are in a precarious situation. If MoD don’t do something fast, we are in real danger.

Yeah they come upto gujarat to smuggle drugs becz that is the only thing they can do

 

[Hawk]

It seems last month the Indian Navy lost track of a Pakistan Augosta class AIP-equipped submarine and had to send P8 and Sea Guardian to search for it in the entire Arabian Sea area but couldn’t find it for three weeks. That submarine eventually surfaced and was found near Karachi. There is talk that it came up to Gujarat. We are in a precarious situation. If MoD don’t do something fast, we are in real danger.

This is ISPR level exaggeration of the actual news which states "The location near Karachi, Pakistan, from where the PNS Saad vanished, it could reach the Gujarat coast in three days and the headquarters of the western fleet in Mumbai within five days and was seen as a major threat to the security of the country," the sources said.

 

[Mag Gal]

Source Geo news pakisthan 😝

It’s been awhile but couldn’t resist.

The story is true and sub in question is Augusta PNS Saad that uses the French MSMA AIP system based on steam turbine generated via ethanol and oxygen reaction. This was during Balacot strike and PNS was worried about losing the sub. Nevertheless it took considerable asset to find it.

China stole the Swedish Saab-kokum stirling based tech as in yuan and Hongur class

Btw the German fuel based system is though efficient but quite dangerous due to oxidiser and fuel in same cell where’s S-80 system proposed by Spain obtains hydrogen from ethanol.

The irony is that steam based system despite slow is perhaps the safest and ultra quiet but than Augusta’s are really old and their signatures are everywhere.

And India still doesn’t have any AIP sub and won’t have for many years whereas both adversaries do. PN even on a small budget.

This is a mindset issue and you can see it from missing fighter jets to everything in between. Superiority goes out of window, when there is no will. And every time calling a takeaway during hunger isn’t so smart, because sometimes takeaway isn’t open. Right now the whole world is gearing for armaments so there is a big shortage

 

[Ayush raj]

These so called pakistani experts claim anything as long as bootlicking of china is being done.

And in doing so they forget what technology the West and USA actually possess. China is still behind. Reminds me of the incident when two subs of the Royal Navy and French Navy collided in the Atlantic Ocean because they couldn't detect each other. That is the real stealth and tech of the West we need to achieve.

These so called pakistanis trying to please china says anything like J35 is better than F35, HQ9B is better than S400 (their so called state of the art defence system bought from china couldn't even detect brahmosh let alone intercepting it) so let them yap whatever they want we need to focus on building a strong India so that if time comes we would be able to even take on USA if needed.

 

[Enforcer]

I have a message for people of India, I keep pushing to buy American or western tech for a reason. Those weapon systems are typically designed around spied and snooped on tech and capabilities of the east mainly China and Russia. They are naturally designed to counter each other and in the case of American equipment, its always the best because they strive very very hard to stay on top with any means possible. Americans NEVER EVER underestimate their enemies and go to great lengths to find out the exact capabilities of their enemies systems.

Americans and west in general have deployed sonobuoys to track and identify the acoustic signature of all their rivals. Also satellite imagery to evaluate the endurance, speed & location, EW warfare to identify the coms that they use. America in general never stops evaluating their enemies constantly and their weapons and doctrines are meticulously designed to counter any threat.

So if you want peace of mind, buy American or western equipment along with developing our own indigenous weapons. China has nothing more advanced than the west.

 

[Sandeep]

The Chinese submarine technology and capabilities faces regular errors, technology underperformance and is faulty, unreliable, equipment errors, expensive spares and parts etc.

Thailand and Bangladesh brought these submarines and regret it badly. It doesn’t do anything that they claim it can do.

India has developed a better AIP and should place its faith on the indigenously developed technology. Currently they will be installed on the Kalvari class submarine and any future indigenous submarines. Our current Kalvari submarine are stealth submarines and can’t be easily traced and it has better weapons and technology than whatever junk the Chinese claim and make.

 

[Akshat]

We should ask Japan to share lithium ion battery technology. It will solve problems with some extent.

We would ask and they would send it on a pen drive immediately, right? It's a crown jewel tech that they won't part with, bro.

 

[Sathish Kumaram]

Usage of fuel cells was a double-edged sword, maybe due to the high flammability of hydrogen used. Even fuel cell vehicles were not the most prevalent on the road due to this concern.

 

[ASHOK CARROL]

The NSTL, NPOL/DRDO LABS must now be tasked by the navy to design a seabed-based sonar system laid all along the coast of India from Korangi Creek near Pakistan to down south till Kanyakumari and then upwards towards Bangladesh. The seabed-based sonars laid every 30 to 50 km will form a ring all along the country's coastline starting from 250-300 km and then covered with a second line 150-100 km from the coast. The final cover, the third layer, must be 40-50 km from harbors. This way 24x7x365 the submarines sailing will be covered and enemy ones destroyed. SUB tracking bases should be built at Okha, Porbandar, Diu, Dahej, Wadhavan, Mumbai and ports all along the coast.

 

[Dredd]

These so called pakistani experts claim anything as long as bootlicking of china is being done.

Truth is that they operate AIP sub today and we are atleast 7 years away from first AIP submarine.

 

[MSN]

At the root, Chinese-made weapons are not proven to be battle-worthy. Pakistanis are doing what their Chinese masters asked them to do.