Kaveri Engine: Latest Developments & Discussion

[ABHIJIT APSINGIKAR]

Never got flying tested bed and been crying for it atleast fifteen years. Is this your example of blank cheque.

For the last time, FTB come st a much later stage. Before that the engine had to complete atoeast 1000hrs of continious rigorous testing on test rigs within special climate control chambers.

Perhaps, you sont recall what happened lady tine when they tried to test a half baked, untested engine in FTB I Russia. It disintegrated midflighr endangering the lives if test crew themselves after which Russia demanded a Kings ransom to continue testing technically faulty engine on board their FTB.

Due to its colorful history, now it is even more important to testbit for atleast 4000 hrs onboard ground test rigs before it even cleared to fly on uav.

 

[Agar]

A tie up will always be prone to negative surprises. Rather than spending on hope that a friendly country will provide us bleeding edge tech for few billion dollars. Let us put 25% of those billion dollars in indigenous programs. Also pursue foreign collaboration let us see how far it takes us. A derated AMCA engine may turn out to be heavy for Tejas Mk1A.

Same with Rafale or any other foreign fighter or Submarine, it is a waste of money spending on them, no body would offer any TOT on even nut and bolt, in case of Rafale spending $30-40Bln is utter waste, instead that money could be spent on different kind of jet enhines.

 

[Agar]

After 2014 , situations have changed in all sectors of development. GTRE has at least 48 KN dry thrust engine in its hand , developing an AF section to increase peak thrust of 73 KN . GoI must vigorously pursue Kaveri -2 in parallel with AMCA engine with foreign collaboration.

that would be same as Rafale’s engine SNECMA M-88.

 

[Akshat]

Never got flying tested bed and been crying for it atleast fifteen years. Is this your example of blank cheque.

It was provided facilities for testing as and when needed. That’s what is called blank check. And the engine ended up blowing the FTB itself.

 

[Akshat]

Check the funding till date, limited ground based test facilities, lack of aerial platform for tests. Not very encouraging signs from govts.

The funding is more than what GTRE could spend. Serial and ground based testing has been provided as and when needed. Yet no result at all. Not very encouraging signs from DRDO.

 

[beencensured]

For the last time, FTB come st a much later stage. Before that the engine had to complete atoeast 1000hrs of continious rigorous testing on test rigs within special climate control chambers.

Perhaps, you sont recall what happened lady tine when they tried to test a half baked, untested engine in FTB I Russia. It disintegrated midflighr endangering the lives if test crew themselves after which Russia demanded a Kings ransom to continue testing technically faulty engine on board their FTB.

Due to its colorful history, now it is even more important to testbit for atleast 4000 hrs onboard ground test rigs before it even cleared to fly on uav.

Kaveri hass passed Russian flying test bed? But then you bring up stuff that is over ten -fifteen years old. It seems you deny your blank cheque for your own confused ideas. They never had a blank check as this is proven.

 

[beencensured]

It was provided facilities for testing as and when needed. That’s what is called blank check. And the engine ended up blowing the FTB itself.

When did the engine blow up on FTB itself?

 

[beencensured]

It was provided facilities for testing as and when needed. That’s what is called blank check. And the engine ended up blowing the FTB itself.

Ans. 2004 about twenty years ago.

 

[abhinav srivastava]

The funding is more than what GTRE could spend. Serial and ground based testing has been provided as and when needed. Yet no result at all. Not very encouraging signs from DRDO.

They have to wait for months to get a flying test bed. Need to go places for testing engines at supersonic speeds etc. If GTRE is stuck on some issues...let a consortium of academia and industry come forward and develop it in parallel or jointly. Our total spending on kaveri is not even 500million dollars. Its needs high tech research needs lots of talent and resources. It would have been prudent if we would have started with engines from 25 kn, then innext 5-6 years prigressed to 50-60 kn and then in next 5-6 years 90-100kn engine. This would have developed lot of scientific and industrial talent for us.
Look at China, ACAE was funded 7.5 billion usd in 2016. Their yearly R&d budget has been 300million on top of the seed fund. Despite this they have limited sucess. Aero engine maket in India is huge both military and civilian. Western countries are minting billions from it. As it grows they will mint 10s and 100s of billions from us. Why would they lose this for few billion dollar of tie up?. They would only give us the tech if we are nearing success.

 

[Akshat]

When did the engine blow up on FTB itself?

2011 or 2012. You can google for details.

 

[Akshat]

They have to wait for months to get a flying test bed. Need to go places for testing engines at supersonic speeds etc. If GTRE is stuck on some issues...let a consortium of academia and industry come forward and develop it in parallel or jointly. Our total spending on kaveri is not even 500million dollars. Its needs high tech research needs lots of talent and resources. It would have been prudent if we would have started with engines from 25 kn, then innext 5-6 years prigressed to 50-60 kn and then in next 5-6 years 90-100kn engine. This would have developed lot of scientific and industrial talent for us.
Look at China, ACAE was funded 7.5 billion usd in 2016. Their yearly R&d budget has been 300million on top of the seed fund. Despite this they have limited sucess. Aero engine maket in India is huge both military and civilian. Western countries are minting billions from it. As it grows they will mint 10s and 100s of billions from us. Why would they lose this for few billion dollar of tie up?. They would only give us the tech if we are nearing success.

It was GTRE and DRDO who came up with Kaveri and the budget. So no one else can be blamed for it. They were given more than what they could utilize so more funds simply wouldn’t have mattered. And what is the point of blaming ‘waiting for months’ when you are talking about a project that went on for 3 decades? Months is nothing in front of it.

 

[Akshat]

Ans. 2004 about twenty years ago.

And for what?

 

[Akhil]

Whatever they asked for was given

Buddy underestimates Indian babudom. Government departments do not ask budget. Allocation is done as per estimates.

If they were given what they asked, they would have test beds and wind tunnels and ISRO would have space station by now.

 

[Akshat]

Buddy underestimates Indian babudom. Government departments do not ask budget. Allocation is done as per estimates.

If they were given what they asked, they would have test beds and wind tunnels and ISRO would have space station by now.

Buddy underestimates the lies of DRDO. DRDo gives projections for funds required for every project. MoD sanctioned that, and then increased it every time more funds were asked.

Giving test facilities is pointless when you have no engine. It’s not like having a FTB will give you an engine when your engine itself is blasting off and throwing ninja blades. Still, GoI gave funds for testing it as much as needed abroad.

 

[RonitBisht]

GTRE Prepares for Flight Trials of Upgraded Dry Kaveri with Afterburner in LCA-Tejas Mk1​

The Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE), a division of India's Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), has received a new batch of Dry Kaveri engines, signaling a significant advancement in the indigenous development of fighter jet engines. These engines are set to undergo rigorous testing and certification processes, with the ultimate goal of integration into India's homegrown fighter aircraft.

This development marks a pivotal moment for the Dry Kaveri engine program, which has been under development for several years. After encountering delays in the past, the project now appears to be gaining momentum, with a renewed focus on achieving self-reliance in critical aerospace technology.

According to credible sources, the GTRE intends to integrate an afterburner section into the engine, enhancing its thrust capabilities. This modified engine will then be fitted onto an older Limited Series Production (LSP) LCA-Tejas Mk1 aircraft for crucial flight testing.

These flight trials, expected to commence within the next two years, will primarily focus on validating the engine's ability to generate 73 kilonewtons (kN) of thrust. The successful achievement of this thrust level is considered a critical milestone for the DRDO in its pursuit of developing a new class of engine.

The long-term vision for the Dry Kaveri engine program is to create a 90kN class engine that can potentially replace the F-404 engine currently powering the Tejas Mk1A fighter jets. The development of such an indigenous engine would be a major breakthrough for India, as it would significantly reduce the country's dependence on foreign suppliers for critical fighter jet components.

Should the flight trials prove successful and the Dry Kaveri engine meets the necessary performance and safety standards, the DRDO aims to position the 90kN engine as a viable alternative for the F-404 engines when the Tejas Mk1A fleet undergoes engine upgrades in the future.

 

[beencensured]

The big question is it 90kn or a 73kn wet thrust engine. The article is confused on this point.

Further, nice to know first batch of engines supplied.

 

[sanket]

Very Good Development, Long ago i was saying DRDO going to Fine Tune Kaveri Engine to 90 kN .

 

[Ysmir Rewari]

The big question is it 90kn or a 73kn wet thrust engine. The article is confused on this point.

Further, nice to know first batch of engines supplied.

73Kn with current afterburner, later development improved afterburner with 90Kn.

 

[Ranjeet Singh]

France should extend tech support to achieve goal for a 90+ kn engine ! We should co relate this with 114+ Rafale F5 under MRFA !

 

[Anant]

73Kn with current afterburner, later development improved afterburner with 90Kn.

I highly doubt that. The Kaveri has a dry thrust of 45-48 kN. Taking that to 73 kN on wet thrust translates to roughly a 60% increase in thrust using an afterburner.

However, reaching 90 kN would mean 87.5-100% increase in thrust using an afterburner. From memory, there is not a single engine that has ever achieved this feat. The highest thrust increases generally come in at 70% or so, unless you look at some Russian engines that can do 80% extra thrust on the emergency thrust setting, but that tends to ruin the engine. 90 kN may simply not be possible using just an improved afterburner. The core may need to be altered.