Kaveri Engine: Latest Developments & Discussion

[Akshat]

They said give GTRE a flying test bed. No need for Safran.

No one said that. You don’t throw in good money after bad money.

 

[wallisk]

We already make this engine in India as part of MIG-29K maintenance, this engine is going to replace the old RD-33 engine in MIG-29’s as part of UPG upgrade, this engine is a bigger engine compared to F414 in size but produce very little thrust.

NO, RD33 Series3 older platform is being made by HAL now. Sea Wasp is the latest engines used in MIG35's and not sold to any countries still...

 

[MANIVANNAN N]

Some unidentified noise rectified only after safran auditing. They did good work.

 

[Sharan]

NO, RD33 Series3 older platform is being made by HAL now. Sea Wasp is the latest engines used in MIG35's and not sold to any countries still...

Yes MIG-29K has this very same enginen, we signed an agreement with Russia a while ago to license make this engine in India for MIG-29 UPG upgrade, this is very old news, Code name of RD-33MK engine is Sea Wasp.

 

[Sharan]

NATO disinformation campaign seems to be working.

No this is French disinformation campaign to stop us getting GE F414 engine.

 

[Elcapitán]

NO, RD33 Series3 older platform is being made by HAL now. Sea Wasp is the latest engines used in MIG35's and not sold to any countries still...

Search for the keywords MIG-29K and RD-33MK in google, you will get the answer.

 

[Elcapitán]

90 kN thrust isn't happening, atleast not with the present core. The present core allows a dry thrust of 45-50 kN. With that, assuming you want decent maintenance, reliability and fuel efficiency, we would be looking at 75-80 kN of wet thrust or thereabouts. With some changes, we could possibly get it to 85-ish kN. Anything beyond that would require a reworked core.

Let’s license make AL41F1 engine and fit them in every single jet we make and be done, we don’t need any other engine,nit’s a much reliable engine compared to AL-31F1, it produces 108KN dry thrust and 177KN with after burner, this engine is plenty enough for a single engine jet.

 

[AK S]

The Safran audit was nothing to be confident about. In fact the program was shut down after that and dry Kaveri launched. The audit said that the entire hot section is useless and Kaveri can only be used in LCA with M88’s hot core.

Looks like you wrote the report on behalf of Safran.

 

[AK S]

No one said that. You don’t throw in good money after bad money.

We actually threw good money in Mirage upgrade. Also when Dassault and Safran did not fulfil their offset obligations. Also on FGFA. If we had put even part of these money in Kaveri and Tejas, by now we would have had 5-6 squadrons of Tejas and lot of lives lost in MiG crashes would have been saved. Kaveri ... we know it will power UCAV. Beyond that, it depends on the level of funding. French hates these developments to the core. To add salt to their injury, we are going for significant ToT in GE F414.

No one is gonna give core tech to us till we get at least very close to it. Not the Europeans, not the Americans. Russian will share the tech, but they are no longer leaders in most of the space.

 

[పవన్కుమార్]

Make the engine extreeme low weight and more tough at the exhaust and low pressure turbine chamber and high pressure turbine chamber and high pressure after burner chamber. It shall increase thrust and decrease weight inching towards thrust to weight ratio for super cruise . 👍🏻 . Use Honey Comb 3d print technology for making engine shell & all chambers of lowpressure and high pressure and exhaust nozzles.

 

[Akshat]

We actually threw good money in Mirage upgrade. Also when Dassault and Safran did not fulfil their offset obligations. Also on FGFA. If we had put even part of these money in Kaveri and Tejas, by now we would have had 5-6 squadrons of Tejas and lot of lives lost in MiG crashes would have been saved. Kaveri ... we know it will power UCAV. Beyond that, it depends on the level of funding. French hates these developments to the core. To add salt to their injury, we are going for significant ToT in GE F414.

No one is gonna give core tech to us till we get at least very close to it. Not the Europeans, not the Americans. Russian will share the tech, but they are no longer leaders in most of the space.

Dassault and Safran fulfilled all their obligations. Lies exposed again. 😂😂😂

As for Kaveri, so much money was given that GTRE couldn’t even use it all. And as for Tejas, HAL
Is operating at 30% efficiency. It has a capacity of 16 planes but can only make 4-5 annually. So no amount of money would have helped.

As for Kaveri, we all know that nearly all DRDO programs are delayed and over budget. So we don’t know anything for now. And DRDO apologists hate it when these facts are exposed. That’s why we had to get ToT for F414.

As for Russians, they have refused to share tech even for Ka226T. In fact, we paid more to them just for the barrel of T90 than France asked for making Kaveri work. 😂😂😂 So much for Russian love. But of course, that’s what one can expect from a commie like you,

 

[Akshat]

Looks like you wrote the report on behalf of Safran.

Only because DRDO itself couldn’t do anything

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

90 kN thrust isn't happening, atleast not with the present core. The present core allows a dry thrust of 45-50 kN. With that, assuming you want decent maintenance, reliability and fuel efficiency, we would be looking at 75-80 kN of wet thrust or thereabouts. With some changes, we could possibly get it to 85-ish kN. Anything beyond that would require a reworked core.

85 ish KN is enough since the GE404 we are usimg now produces around that or less than that.

since we will be needing over 1000 engines for tejas in all(300+ fighters) it is imperative that we either use a domestic engine or a license production one at some point for it. Importing 1000+ 404s does not make sense. We need less 414s but we went for a license production deal.

i think MoD is confident of kaveri reaching the benchmark to be put into the tejas, that is why it did not push for a 404 local production deal.

 

[Sandeep]

Currently India is developing the Kaveri engine which gives us about 50kn of dry thrust only for the stealth UCAV Ghatak. It recently passed high altitude tests and now a set of 6-8 prototype are being manufactured by Godrej industries.

They are also developing the Kaveri Marine engine which is showing good progress and will be able to power our small to medium ships. We have never tried developing a marine engine before so we need to develop it to become self reliant.

 

[Pad UwU]

Looks like you wrote the report on behalf of Safran.

😹😹😹
dont be too harsh with him or Philippe Picard will show up

 

[Pad UwU]

we should ask other foreign companies to make JV partnership to rush up getting indianize version engine with a minimum wet thrust of 90kn.... Whether it's Russian, Americans nor British... France already did it's best but the Kaveri engine is still a pipe dream up until now... Or renegotiate directly to Safran... Macron is already in shamble situation after the snap election 🙃🤭

 

[Harsh]

HAL+GTRE+ Safran+Godrej should jointly make India specific Snecma/Kaveri (90-95KN) engines to power Tejas-1A, Tejas-1B ( Mirage-2000-9) type fighter that can attain Mac 2.25 speed ) ! Better France should give TOT asap with IP rights !

 

[Jaydeep Gupta]

DRDO to Integrate Dry Kaveri Engine into Tejas Trainer for Flight Testing​

In a major stride for India's indigenous defense capabilities, the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has revealed plans to integrate a derivative of the Dry Kaveri engine into the LCA-Tejas Trainer aircraft.

This move, as announced by Dr. Samir V. Kamat, Secretary of Defence Research and Development, marks a significant advancement in India's self-reliance in engine technology.

Flying Testbed to Accelerate Development​

The integration of the Dry Kaveri engine derivative into the Tejas Trainer aircraft is not intended to replace the existing F-404 engines in operational fighter jets. Instead, the initiative aims to utilize the trainer aircraft as a flying testbed, enabling real-flight testing and refinement of the engine under diverse conditions.

Two existing Tejas Trainer prototypes, designated PV-5 and PV-6, will be adapted for this purpose. This innovative approach leverages existing resources and infrastructure, accelerating the development cycle and reducing costs.

Engine Enhancements and Future Applications​

The Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE), a crucial partner in this endeavor, has already begun receiving new batches of Dry Kaveri engines specifically for this testing program. These engines are slated for high-altitude trials to assess their performance in extreme environments.

Concurrently, GTRE is developing new afterburner modules for the Kaveri engine, aiming to increase the combined thrust to approximately 73-75kN. While slightly below the 84kN thrust of the LCA-Tejas Mk1's F-404 engines, this enhancement demonstrates substantial progress in indigenous engine technology.

The Dry Kaveri engine is also envisioned to power the Ghatak UCAV (Unmanned Combat Aerial Vehicle), a 13-ton unmanned strike aircraft under development by the Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE).

This versatile engine is poised to play a vital role in complementing India's fifth-generation AMCA fighter jet in deep strike missions within contested airspace.

Strategic Implications and Future Outlook​

This development holds immense strategic significance for India, reducing dependency on foreign suppliers for critical fighter jet components.

The successful integration and testing of the Dry Kaveri engine could pave the way for its potential use as an alternative to the F-404 engines when the Tejas Mk1A fleet undergoes engine upgrades in the future.

While the exact timeline for this integration and subsequent trials remains undisclosed, the progress made thus far underscores India's commitment to self-reliance in defense technology.

The collaborative efforts of DRDO and GTRE showcase the nation's unwavering pursuit of indigenous innovation in the aerospace sector.

 

[sanket]

Very Good Development ,Twin Engine test Bed would have better for Kaveri Derivative Testing purpose, As i was saying DRDO may Fine Tune in future to produce 90 kN

 

[Anant]

Let them try. Unless they can actually achieve results, speculation would be rather pointless. That said, 73-75 kN is just around the borderline for a jet of that size and the relevant performance parameters, so anything lower might be an issue.

 

[Anant]

Very Good Development ,Twin Engine test Bed would have better for Kaveri Derivative Testing purpose, As i was saying DRDO may Fine Tune in future to produce 90 kN

Eh, getting the engine up to 90 kN would require, in essence, a new core. The present core can probably just about reach 75-ish kN wet thrust, which is what they are targeting. Getting 90 kN wet thrust would need around 55 kN dry thrust, which isn't happening with the present core.

 

[bonito]

Thank god, some sanity prevails. Please stick to the original objective GTRE engine to power Ghatak only. Focus is key. Powering Tejas is a distant dream for now and is a distraction waste of money, efforts and timeline. Please re-read CAG reports. We still need a decade to build engine ecosystem in India, we have to wait.

 

[Satya Dev]

Good, but the million dollar question is - when?

 

[Akshat]

WTH??? Is DRDO really that desperate? Why is MoD even allowing this? No one uses a single engine aircraft as a test bed unless the engine is fully developed and well proven. If the engine fails, the pilot is gone. And in an under development engine the chances of failure are very very high. That's why you use at least a 2 engine aircraft so that you at least have enough power to steer and land the plane if the engine fails. Is this for real or just another way of DRDO to keep the jobs going for a while longer?

 

[NSR]

Absolutely wrong way to develop a fighter engine.
India needs to acquire a real high altitude flight test aircraft which can be used to thoroughly test the Kaveri Dry or Kaveri Dry+Afterburner engines.

Mounting experimental Kaveri engine variants on a LCA/Tejas I or IA is a very dangerous idea as it affects the pilot safety as it is a single engine fighter.
Perhaps mounting on twin engine fighter may alleviate the issues of pilot safety.

I am sure DRDO and GTRE are under intense pressure to produce but compromising pilot safety is not the best way to develop a fighter engine.