UK Courts India for Tempest Fighter Jet Partnership, Rolls-Royce Eyes Engine Collaboration

The United Kingdom has renewed its invitation to India to join the ambitious Tempest sixth-generation fighter jet program, aiming to capitalize on India's expertise and potentially reduce development costs. While the UK currently collaborates with Italy and Japan on the project, both countries reportedly see India's participation as crucial to its success.

This renewed push comes after a previous attempt in 2019, with the UK highlighting the potential for India to contribute to software development and other key areas of the program.

In parallel, Rolls-Royce, a leading member of the Tempest development team, has expressed keen interest in collaborating with India on engine technology for the indigenous AMCA fifth-generation fighter program. This move could offer India a customized solution for its domestic fighter jet project.

India's decision remains uncertain, as the country balances its desire for access to cutting-edge technology with its "Make in India" initiative, which prioritizes self-reliance in defence manufacturing. While joining the Tempest program could offer technological advancements, it might limit India's control over intellectual property rights.

The Tempest program aims to develop a next-generation fighter jet with advanced capabilities, including stealth technology, artificial intelligence, and swarming drone capabilities. The target for the first flight is set for 2035.

India's participation could potentially reduce the program's estimated cost of $32.5 billion, a significant factor for all parties involved. The collaboration with Rolls-Royce on engine technology could also prove mutually beneficial, accelerating the development of India's AMCA program.

As India weighs its options, the decision to join the Tempest program or pursue a separate engine collaboration with Rolls-Royce will have significant implications for the country's defence capabilities and its role in the global aerospace industry.

 

[sanket]

Stealth Fighter jet should b develop on its own , India already opted out from Indo-Russia project. Tempest is Multination project . Not all Tech will b Tranfered. India already approved Funds for AMCA.

 

[De_SECULARISED]

Ok with Engine TOT & IP provided & rights to customise the bird.

 

[sanket]

Ok with Engine TOT & IP provided & rights to customise the bird.

Not only IP Rights for Engine , R&D of Engine & Tempest should b shift in India & Making India Manufacturing & R&D Hub For Tempest, Even for weapons Integrated on Tempest. with Exporting Rights. Currently India is Facing Resistance in Exporting Tejas MK1A with British Components.

 

[Anant]

Let's break this down into pros and cons:

Pros:

1. Technology and expertise development within India for next-generation aircraft development that will finally allow us to push the envelope when it comes to fighter design.
2. Partial/ shared IPR that can allow us to consider some variation of the type as a potential replacement for the Su-30MKI.
3. Potential to integrate some of these technologies into AMCA Mk II to make it close to, if not a full, 6th generation fighter.

Cons:

1. Massive price tag. We would be looking at around 8 billion USD of investment, assuming an equal share for everyone.
2. Risks associated with multi-national programs, especially when it comes to costs, delays, and technology ownership and sharing, as well as export concerns.

That said, this is something that warrants very serious thought. I am personally in favour of joining either the GCAP or FCAS programs, but we shouldn't just write off this kind of opportunity.

 

[Anant]

Not only IP Rights for Engine , R&D of Engine & Tempest should b shift in India & Making India Manufacturing & R&D Hub For Tempest, Even for weapons Integrated on Tempest. with Exporting Rights. Currently India is Facing Resistance in Exporting Tejas MK1A with British Components.

Easy there. There are very few nations that we faced resistance in because of British components. In fact, Argentina may well be the sole nation. In other nations where we face export concerns, it would be more because of other components such as the engine.

That said, India can become one of the production hubs for local requirements and exports of the Tempest. However, we cannot become the sole production hub. The Tempest program hinges, in part, on reviving / maintaining the local manufacturing capabilities of the participant nations.

Coming to IPR, the best case scenario is a joint IPR holding, which isn't a bad idea. Of course, when you hold IPR, you also hold all the technology, which helps us too.

As I said, this is something we should consider very seriously. Joining either the GCAP or FCAS programs would give us a wealth of technical expertise and knowledge that we can leverage in other programs such as the AMCA Mk II as well.

 

[Indiafirst]

Tempest may be a tempting offer. But it may be an attempt to kill India's resolve for indigenous development of defense armaments. India should not join the TEMPEST program at the cost of AMCA.

 

[Kira]

A tempting offer, but lets see how the first prototype performs and then decide and not to mention how AMCA project pans out in the near future.

 

[Anant]

A tempting offer, but lets see how the first prototype performs and then decide and not to mention how AMCA project pans out in the near future.

It'll be too late if we wait for the first prototype. The entire idea behind joining the project is to gain the development experience. If we wait another 10-12 years for the prototype and then go ahead, we'll simply be customers rather than developers, and the whole point of the endeavour will be moot.

We should seriously consider joining either the GCAP or FCAS program at the present time. That would allow us to gain a whole lot of technical expertise and knowledge that we can then leverage to an extent for our own programs like the AMCA Mk II as well.

 

[NSR]

India should seriously consider joining the TEMPEST program as fourth foundational partner.
India will incur only 1/4th of the cost of development but advantages of getting top level technology on it and also possibility of pollinating Indian fighter programs with that technologies will be very enticing.

But all the negotiations and fine prints should be looked at very seriously with a microscopic examinations.

UK, Japan, Italy, and possibly India joining together and all of them need that 6th generation fighter very badly.

 

[Anant]

India should seriously consider joining the TEMPEST program as fourth foundational partner.
India will incur only 1/4th of the cost of development but advantages of getting top level technology on it and also possibility of pollinating Indian fighter programs with that technologies will be very enticing.

But all the negotiations and fine prints should be looked at very seriously with a microscopic examinations.

UK, Japan, Italy, and possibly India joining together and all of them need that 6th generation fighter very badly.

Agreed, boss. This is something that is needed by all partners. Depending on how the Tempest program pans out, we could also, atleast in theory, go for a variant Ota further development of the Tempest to replace part of the Su-30MKI fleet.

 

[NSR]

Agreed, boss. This is something that is needed by all partners. Depending on how the Tempest program pans out, we could also, atleast in theory, go for a variant Ota further development of the Tempest to replace part of the Su-30MKI fleet.

I think India can use part of the money from MRFA (see my comments in MRFA story) on TEMPEST program and rest on Indian fighters only including Super Sukhois, Tejas Mk 2, TEDBF, and AMCA.

4+ MRFA program will suck all oxygen (cash) out of all of other programs.
I truly fear it now.

 

[Ranjeet Singh]

India must joint Tempest program as Russia denied is FGFA tech so we should find a new avenue for next gen fighter for IAF !

 

[Aftab Ahmed Sheikh]

Can India manage $8 billion program cost + Y-o-Y inflation ?

Tejas Mk.2: 9000 cr ± 1000
AMCA: 15000 cr

 

[Pad UwU]

Not only IP Rights for Engine , R&D of Engine & Tempest should b shift in India & Making India Manufacturing & R&D Hub For Tempest, Even for weapons Integrated on Tempest. with Exporting Rights. Currently India is Facing Resistance in Exporting Tejas MK1A with British Components.

Do you have any brain???
How can the major founder approve shifting R&D, manufacturing and repair hub if GoI had no money to fund of joining the group plus expertise in fields especially if we are asking the use of their IP for Indian use and approval of export🤔🧐....

The real reason IMHO we are not joining is we don't have money😹😹😹 India has so many excuses.....
Mouse is already in the field and ready for the hungry predator to chuckin.... Problem is we are too choosey 😹😹😹

 

[Pad UwU]

Let's break this down into pros and cons:

Pros:

1. Technology and expertise development within India for next-generation aircraft development that will finally allow us to push the envelope when it comes to fighter design.
2. Partial/ shared IPR that can allow us to consider some variation of the type as a potential replacement for the Su-30MKI.
3. Potential to integrate some of these technologies into AMCA Mk II to make it close to, if not a full, 6th generation fighter.

Cons:

1. Massive price tag. We would be looking at around 8 billion USD of investment, assuming an equal share for everyone.
2. Risks associated with multi-national programs, especially when it comes to costs, delays, and technology ownership and sharing, as well as export concerns.

That said, this is something that warrants very serious thought. I am personally in favour of joining either the GCAP or FCAS programs, but we shouldn't just write off this kind of opportunity.

Sadly French German led FCAS with Spain is too much eurocentric and not open for outsider.... The only exception is Belgium as observer

 

[Pad UwU]

Tempest may be a tempting offer. But it may be an attempt to kill India's resolve for indigenous development of defense armaments. India should not join the TEMPEST program at the cost of AMCA.

we still don't have 5gen expertise how can it kill a non existing aircraft that is over a decade delay

 

[Pad UwU]

A tempting offer, but lets see how the first prototype performs and then decide and not to mention how AMCA project pans out in the near future.

AMCA is over delayed.... Unlike the Koreans Boramae and Turks Kaan

 

[Pad UwU]

It'll be too late if we wait for the first prototype. The entire idea behind joining the project is to gain the development experience. If we wait another 10-12 years for the prototype and then go ahead, we'll simply be customers rather than developers, and the whole point of the endeavour will be moot.

We should seriously consider joining either the GCAP or FCAS program at the present time. That would allow us to gain a whole lot of technical expertise and knowledge that we can then leverage to an extent for our own programs like the AMCA Mk II as well.

GCAP Tempest 6gen is more favorable to be honest

 

[Pad UwU]

India should seriously consider joining the TEMPEST program as fourth foundational partner.
India will incur only 1/4th of the cost of development but advantages of getting top level technology on it and also possibility of pollinating Indian fighter programs with that technologies will be very enticing.

But all the negotiations and fine prints should be looked at very seriously with a microscopic examinations.

UK, Japan, Italy, and possibly India joining together and all of them need that 6th generation fighter very badly.

Yes 25% rights of GCAP Tempest 6gen is very tempting and should be consider by our lazy government

 

[vasu gali]

Tempest may be a tempting offer. But it may be an attempt to kill India's resolve for indigenous development of defense armaments. India should not join the TEMPEST program at the cost of AMCA.

AMCA is but a 5th gen plane at the best and may become available by 2035. But Tempest is a 6th gen plane by 2035. So definitely a good offer . Both 5th gen AMCA nd 6th gen TEMPEST could become available almost simultaneously to phase out SU 30 MKI

 

[Pad UwU]

Can India manage $8 billion program cost + Y-o-Y inflation ?

Tejas Mk.2: 9000 cr ± 1000
AMCA: 15000 cr

We been bombarded by propaganda that India is leapfrogging other nation in GDP and become richer but in reality we are still flagging of delay funding because in reality we don't have the money yet to allocate in a bigger project...
And that's the real hard fact that the GoI are not approving to leak

 

[RalphRearden]

French offer might do India good, much more than this. IF the Brits, Italians, or Japanese knew anything comparable to French in aircraft designing, all 3 wouldn't be begging USA for F-35. Typhoon would have been mass produced crosssing 1000 numbers as originally planned.
French are at least a generation ahead of all these 3 countries in aerospace and avionics.

 

[Devasahayam]

Will it be like the Gnat, an excellent fighter which UK never really built but India did well with?

 

[Pad UwU]

French offer might do India good, much more than this. IF the Brits, Italians, or Japanese knew anything comparable to French in aircraft designing, all 3 wouldn't be begging USA for F-35. Typhoon would have been mass produced crosssing 1000 numbers as originally planned.
French are at least a generation ahead of all these 3 countries in aerospace and avionics.

French AFAIK doesn't have any know how or hands on knowledge in developing of 5gen yet too much ambitious of 6gen....
FCAS 6gen members with some hands on know how and knowledge of 5gen tech and flying it is Germany....
Unlike GCAP Tempest 6gen UK and Japan has technology and know-how from 5gen that is crucial for 6gen... Japan Italy and UK operate 5gen so the real fact here is they are the most knowledgeable and have good ideas of what should be the definition of a 6gen aircraft likewise US gives approval of Japan partnership with UK because they are like-minded countries.... 😹😹😹If we join GCAP would we be also become like-minded too🙃

Your propaganda is obviously fake info....
If France is leading in aerospace technology,. why it can't even make innovation of 5gen and jumping straight to 6gen with the help of Germany and Spain 🧐🤔

 

[NSR]

Let's break this down into pros and cons:

Pros:

1. Technology and expertise development within India for next-generation aircraft development that will finally allow us to push the envelope when it comes to fighter design.
2. Partial/ shared IPR that can allow us to consider some variation of the type as a potential replacement for the Su-30MKI.
3. Potential to integrate some of these technologies into AMCA Mk II to make it close to, if not a full, 6th generation fighter.

Cons:

1. Massive price tag. We would be looking at around 8 billion USD of investment, assuming an equal share for everyone.
2. Risks associated with multi-national programs, especially when it comes to costs, delays, and technology ownership and sharing, as well as export concerns.

That said, this is something that warrants very serious thought. I am personally in favour of joining either the GCAP or FCAS programs, but we shouldn't just write off this kind of opportunity.

I like most of what you wrote except $8 billion figure and few other things.

The total outlay for TEMPEST from UK, Japan and Italy is about $15 billions. Read it in western media.
So even if it goes to $20 billions, then Indian share would be about a maximum of $5 billions.

It will cost more than that for AMCA first prototype if we ever get one.

 

[ABHIJIT APSINGIKAR]

Tempest may be a tempting offer. But it may be an attempt to kill India's resolve for indigenous development of defense armaments. India should not join the TEMPEST program at the cost of AMCA.

Cannot kill something that's yet to even mature as a feoteus fir uts already suffering from.arrestdd development. All they have right now is few engineering drawings and by the way its progressing its's already well on path to face abject faliure just as the troubled TAPAS UAV project.

 

[Pad UwU]

Joining GCAP Tempest 6gen is a good opportunity to grab while it's still available on the platter... But I highly doubtful of our government capability to decide on this one 😹😹😹😹
If India is getting rich why it's still lagging behind in development and innovation to showcase Tejas mk2, AMCA and TEDBF plus more.... MRFA is still undecided for many years if our GDP is booming...
IMHO we don't have the money or funds,. We just faking it....

Not joining GCAP Tempest would be end us just as a customer and doesn't have right on a certain IP that we can call our own innovation to share and license.... We just keeping wanting IP's of technology that are not making in reality because of lack of understanding and experience that would be crucial if we join the club....

I saw many French lovers here but sorry FCAS is still a eurocentric groupies... Only exception is Belgium but as a observer at the moment till France, Germany and Spain decided so as one of the pillars 😹😹😹

 

[Girish Tyagi]

Only way to survive for India is to develop its own tech and reduce any critical dependency on the west. There is no way India is facing allout war for next 20 years simply because we are politically neutral and growing market which every power wants to get in. India must use these 20 years to develop its own tech just like we did in space and missile program.

 

[GMR]

This offer should be grabbed with both hands if the work & technology sharing will be as desired. Also AMCA getting progressively delayed, Tempest is the best oppertunity of future technology.
However our Armed forces have long history of letting opportunities slip out of hand..