UK Courts India for Tempest Fighter Jet Partnership, Rolls-Royce Eyes Engine Collaboration

The United Kingdom has renewed its invitation to India to join the ambitious Tempest sixth-generation fighter jet program, aiming to capitalize on India's expertise and potentially reduce development costs. While the UK currently collaborates with Italy and Japan on the project, both countries reportedly see India's participation as crucial to its success.

This renewed push comes after a previous attempt in 2019, with the UK highlighting the potential for India to contribute to software development and other key areas of the program.

In parallel, Rolls-Royce, a leading member of the Tempest development team, has expressed keen interest in collaborating with India on engine technology for the indigenous AMCA fifth-generation fighter program. This move could offer India a customized solution for its domestic fighter jet project.

India's decision remains uncertain, as the country balances its desire for access to cutting-edge technology with its "Make in India" initiative, which prioritizes self-reliance in defence manufacturing. While joining the Tempest program could offer technological advancements, it might limit India's control over intellectual property rights.

The Tempest program aims to develop a next-generation fighter jet with advanced capabilities, including stealth technology, artificial intelligence, and swarming drone capabilities. The target for the first flight is set for 2035.

India's participation could potentially reduce the program's estimated cost of $32.5 billion, a significant factor for all parties involved. The collaboration with Rolls-Royce on engine technology could also prove mutually beneficial, accelerating the development of India's AMCA program.

As India weighs its options, the decision to join the Tempest program or pursue a separate engine collaboration with Rolls-Royce will have significant implications for the country's defence capabilities and its role in the global aerospace industry.

 

[vasu gali]

Tempest may be a tempting offer. But it may be an attempt to kill India's resolve for indigenous development of defense armaments. India should not join the TEMPEST program at the cost of AMCA.

AMCA is but a 5th gen plane at the best and may become available by 2035. But Tempest is a 6th gen plane by 2035. So definitely a good offer . Both 5th gen AMCA nd 6th gen TEMPEST could become available almost simultaneously to phase out SU 30 MKI

 

[Pad UwU]

Can India manage $8 billion program cost + Y-o-Y inflation ?

Tejas Mk.2: 9000 cr ± 1000
AMCA: 15000 cr

We been bombarded by propaganda that India is leapfrogging other nation in GDP and become richer but in reality we are still flagging of delay funding because in reality we don't have the money yet to allocate in a bigger project...
And that's the real hard fact that the GoI are not approving to leak

 

[RalphRearden]

French offer might do India good, much more than this. IF the Brits, Italians, or Japanese knew anything comparable to French in aircraft designing, all 3 wouldn't be begging USA for F-35. Typhoon would have been mass produced crosssing 1000 numbers as originally planned.
French are at least a generation ahead of all these 3 countries in aerospace and avionics.

 

[Devasahayam]

Will it be like the Gnat, an excellent fighter which UK never really built but India did well with?

 

[Pad UwU]

French offer might do India good, much more than this. IF the Brits, Italians, or Japanese knew anything comparable to French in aircraft designing, all 3 wouldn't be begging USA for F-35. Typhoon would have been mass produced crosssing 1000 numbers as originally planned.
French are at least a generation ahead of all these 3 countries in aerospace and avionics.

French AFAIK doesn't have any know how or hands on knowledge in developing of 5gen yet too much ambitious of 6gen....
FCAS 6gen members with some hands on know how and knowledge of 5gen tech and flying it is Germany....
Unlike GCAP Tempest 6gen UK and Japan has technology and know-how from 5gen that is crucial for 6gen... Japan Italy and UK operate 5gen so the real fact here is they are the most knowledgeable and have good ideas of what should be the definition of a 6gen aircraft likewise US gives approval of Japan partnership with UK because they are like-minded countries.... 😹😹😹If we join GCAP would we be also become like-minded too🙃

Your propaganda is obviously fake info....
If France is leading in aerospace technology,. why it can't even make innovation of 5gen and jumping straight to 6gen with the help of Germany and Spain 🧐🤔

 

[NSR]

Let's break this down into pros and cons:

Pros:

1. Technology and expertise development within India for next-generation aircraft development that will finally allow us to push the envelope when it comes to fighter design.
2. Partial/ shared IPR that can allow us to consider some variation of the type as a potential replacement for the Su-30MKI.
3. Potential to integrate some of these technologies into AMCA Mk II to make it close to, if not a full, 6th generation fighter.

Cons:

1. Massive price tag. We would be looking at around 8 billion USD of investment, assuming an equal share for everyone.
2. Risks associated with multi-national programs, especially when it comes to costs, delays, and technology ownership and sharing, as well as export concerns.

That said, this is something that warrants very serious thought. I am personally in favour of joining either the GCAP or FCAS programs, but we shouldn't just write off this kind of opportunity.

I like most of what you wrote except $8 billion figure and few other things.

The total outlay for TEMPEST from UK, Japan and Italy is about $15 billions. Read it in western media.
So even if it goes to $20 billions, then Indian share would be about a maximum of $5 billions.

It will cost more than that for AMCA first prototype if we ever get one.

 

[ABHIJIT APSINGIKAR]

Tempest may be a tempting offer. But it may be an attempt to kill India's resolve for indigenous development of defense armaments. India should not join the TEMPEST program at the cost of AMCA.

Cannot kill something that's yet to even mature as a feoteus fir uts already suffering from.arrestdd development. All they have right now is few engineering drawings and by the way its progressing its's already well on path to face abject faliure just as the troubled TAPAS UAV project.

 

[Pad UwU]

Joining GCAP Tempest 6gen is a good opportunity to grab while it's still available on the platter... But I highly doubtful of our government capability to decide on this one 😹😹😹😹
If India is getting rich why it's still lagging behind in development and innovation to showcase Tejas mk2, AMCA and TEDBF plus more.... MRFA is still undecided for many years if our GDP is booming...
IMHO we don't have the money or funds,. We just faking it....

Not joining GCAP Tempest would be end us just as a customer and doesn't have right on a certain IP that we can call our own innovation to share and license.... We just keeping wanting IP's of technology that are not making in reality because of lack of understanding and experience that would be crucial if we join the club....

I saw many French lovers here but sorry FCAS is still a eurocentric groupies... Only exception is Belgium but as a observer at the moment till France, Germany and Spain decided so as one of the pillars 😹😹😹

 

[Girish Tyagi]

Only way to survive for India is to develop its own tech and reduce any critical dependency on the west. There is no way India is facing allout war for next 20 years simply because we are politically neutral and growing market which every power wants to get in. India must use these 20 years to develop its own tech just like we did in space and missile program.

 

[GMR]

This offer should be grabbed with both hands if the work & technology sharing will be as desired. Also AMCA getting progressively delayed, Tempest is the best oppertunity of future technology.
However our Armed forces have long history of letting opportunities slip out of hand..

 

[Anant]

Tempest may be a tempting offer. But it may be an attempt to kill India's resolve for indigenous development of defense armaments. India should not join the TEMPEST program at the cost of AMCA.

No, joining the GCAP program won't mean cancelling AMCA. If anything, the two programs would complement. Some of the technical expertise and knowledge, besides certain technologies from GCAP could be incorporated into the AMCA Mk II as well.

 

[Anant]

I like most of what you wrote except $8 billion figure and few other things.

The total outlay for TEMPEST from UK, Japan and Italy is about $15 billions. Read it in western media.
So even if it goes to $20 billions, then Indian share would be about a maximum of $5 billions.

It will cost more than that for AMCA first prototype if we ever get one.

Boss, I based the 8 billion USD as 25% of the article's quoted 32 billion USD estimate for the whole development phase. Anything lower than that is obviously better for us.

 

[Anant]

I think India can use part of the money from MRFA (see my comments in MRFA story) on TEMPEST program and rest on Indian fighters only including Super Sukhois, Tejas Mk 2, TEDBF, and AMCA.

4+ MRFA program will suck all oxygen (cash) out of all of other programs.
I truly fear it now.

If we are seriously considering joining GCAP, then we could look at scaling down MRFA by a bit. Say, scaling it down from 114 aircraft to 100 aircraft (as an example) would give us 5 squadrons under MRFA (instead of 6, which is manageable), and free up 4-ish billion USD that can be diverted to GCAP.

I am not in favour of cancelling MRFA entirely for the simple reason that HAL cannot be trusted to deliver as per schedule and in the numbers needed to offset MRFA entirely with the impending retirement of older jets in the 2030s, and because something like the Tempest will only mature in the 2040s. Cancelling MRFA puts us at a critical shortage of aircraft from the late-2030s to the mid-2040s, which can prove to be disastrous.

 

[Anant]

Can India manage $8 billion program cost + Y-o-Y inflation ?

Tejas Mk.2: 9000 cr ± 1000
AMCA: 15000 cr

Should be doable. If we scale back MRFA to say, 100 aircraft, that means 5 squadrons instead of 6 in MRFA, but this frees up some 4 billion USD, which can go a large way into GCAP. With some increases to defence budgets and increases in capital acquisition budgets, we should be able to manage the funding.

 

[Ayyadurai Namasivayam]

India should collaborate only with Israel which already built 6th gen fighter

 

[Anant]

French offer might do India good, much more than this. IF the Brits, Italians, or Japanese knew anything comparable to French in aircraft designing, all 3 wouldn't be begging USA for F-35. Typhoon would have been mass produced crosssing 1000 numbers as originally planned.
French are at least a generation ahead of all these 3 countries in aerospace and avionics.

Not necessarily. France is going ahead with FCAS, but progress on that project is far lesser than what we are seeing in GCAP, even with Germany's involvement. Moreover, the massive costs of French aircraft may well be a point acting against them.

That said, we do need to seriously consider joining either GCAP or FCAS. Too much to lose if we don't.

 

[Sandeep]

By looking at the comments there's pros and cons. While the technology is very important the fact is that under joint development programs by countries they first agree on the work share agreement, technology agreements, production agreements and price agreements which are all evenly distributed based upon what they are able to develop and they each produce that part of what they develop. This is to make sure that no country can outcompete the other and produce an entire product by undermining the other on the technology, production and price.

With India they just want the money from us and India will never get to produce the entire jet at all because we could build it much cheaper than them and therefore outcompete them. Also the type of weapons they will use and critical technology like engines, EW, stealth technology etc will never be transferred to India and they won't be compatible to our own existing systems and technology. Another problem is that the western countries can often refuse or delay producing some critical parts that can impact our own operational capability.

 

[Fresh Water]

One clear benefit of going alone -
The scientists and engineers from India will be in highly respected and paid in the global market.

(But, if you join the Tempest or any such program then 100% of the credit would go to occidental scientists and engineers. India would only be credited with providing the funds.
So, go alone to win long-term credibility and respect for Indian talent.)

 

[Fresh Water]

This is an attempt at creating a knowledge gap and talent gap in India.

 

[Fresh Water]

Stealth Fighter jet should b develop on its own , India already opted out from Indo-Russia project. Tempest is Multination project . Not all Tech will b Tranfered. India already approved Funds for AMCA.

India has the right to develop her own technology and talent.

Financially also, investing in building long-term facilities, sciences and intellectual assets generates greater net profits than paying to get the license to use someone else's intellectual property.