UK Courts India for Tempest Fighter Jet Partnership, Rolls-Royce Eyes Engine Collaboration

The United Kingdom has renewed its invitation to India to join the ambitious Tempest sixth-generation fighter jet program, aiming to capitalize on India's expertise and potentially reduce development costs. While the UK currently collaborates with Italy and Japan on the project, both countries reportedly see India's participation as crucial to its success.

This renewed push comes after a previous attempt in 2019, with the UK highlighting the potential for India to contribute to software development and other key areas of the program.

In parallel, Rolls-Royce, a leading member of the Tempest development team, has expressed keen interest in collaborating with India on engine technology for the indigenous AMCA fifth-generation fighter program. This move could offer India a customized solution for its domestic fighter jet project.

India's decision remains uncertain, as the country balances its desire for access to cutting-edge technology with its "Make in India" initiative, which prioritizes self-reliance in defence manufacturing. While joining the Tempest program could offer technological advancements, it might limit India's control over intellectual property rights.

The Tempest program aims to develop a next-generation fighter jet with advanced capabilities, including stealth technology, artificial intelligence, and swarming drone capabilities. The target for the first flight is set for 2035.

India's participation could potentially reduce the program's estimated cost of $32.5 billion, a significant factor for all parties involved. The collaboration with Rolls-Royce on engine technology could also prove mutually beneficial, accelerating the development of India's AMCA program.

As India weighs its options, the decision to join the Tempest program or pursue a separate engine collaboration with Rolls-Royce will have significant implications for the country's defence capabilities and its role in the global aerospace industry.

 

[NSR]

Let's break this down into pros and cons:

Pros:

1. Technology and expertise development within India for next-generation aircraft development that will finally allow us to push the envelope when it comes to fighter design.
2. Partial/ shared IPR that can allow us to consider some variation of the type as a potential replacement for the Su-30MKI.
3. Potential to integrate some of these technologies into AMCA Mk II to make it close to, if not a full, 6th generation fighter.

Cons:

1. Massive price tag. We would be looking at around 8 billion USD of investment, assuming an equal share for everyone.
2. Risks associated with multi-national programs, especially when it comes to costs, delays, and technology ownership and sharing, as well as export concerns.

That said, this is something that warrants very serious thought. I am personally in favour of joining either the GCAP or FCAS programs, but we shouldn't just write off this kind of opportunity.

I like most of what you wrote except $8 billion figure and few other things.

The total outlay for TEMPEST from UK, Japan and Italy is about $15 billions. Read it in western media.
So even if it goes to $20 billions, then Indian share would be about a maximum of $5 billions.

It will cost more than that for AMCA first prototype if we ever get one.

 

[ABHIJIT APSINGIKAR]

Tempest may be a tempting offer. But it may be an attempt to kill India's resolve for indigenous development of defense armaments. India should not join the TEMPEST program at the cost of AMCA.

Cannot kill something that's yet to even mature as a feoteus fir uts already suffering from.arrestdd development. All they have right now is few engineering drawings and by the way its progressing its's already well on path to face abject faliure just as the troubled TAPAS UAV project.

 

[Pad UwU]

Joining GCAP Tempest 6gen is a good opportunity to grab while it's still available on the platter... But I highly doubtful of our government capability to decide on this one 😹😹😹😹
If India is getting rich why it's still lagging behind in development and innovation to showcase Tejas mk2, AMCA and TEDBF plus more.... MRFA is still undecided for many years if our GDP is booming...
IMHO we don't have the money or funds,. We just faking it....

Not joining GCAP Tempest would be end us just as a customer and doesn't have right on a certain IP that we can call our own innovation to share and license.... We just keeping wanting IP's of technology that are not making in reality because of lack of understanding and experience that would be crucial if we join the club....

I saw many French lovers here but sorry FCAS is still a eurocentric groupies... Only exception is Belgium but as a observer at the moment till France, Germany and Spain decided so as one of the pillars 😹😹😹

 

[Girish Tyagi]

Only way to survive for India is to develop its own tech and reduce any critical dependency on the west. There is no way India is facing allout war for next 20 years simply because we are politically neutral and growing market which every power wants to get in. India must use these 20 years to develop its own tech just like we did in space and missile program.

 

[GMR]

This offer should be grabbed with both hands if the work & technology sharing will be as desired. Also AMCA getting progressively delayed, Tempest is the best oppertunity of future technology.
However our Armed forces have long history of letting opportunities slip out of hand..

 

[Anant]

I like most of what you wrote except $8 billion figure and few other things.

The total outlay for TEMPEST from UK, Japan and Italy is about $15 billions. Read it in western media.
So even if it goes to $20 billions, then Indian share would be about a maximum of $5 billions.

It will cost more than that for AMCA first prototype if we ever get one.

Boss, I based the 8 billion USD as 25% of the article's quoted 32 billion USD estimate for the whole development phase. Anything lower than that is obviously better for us.

 

[Anant]

Tempest may be a tempting offer. But it may be an attempt to kill India's resolve for indigenous development of defense armaments. India should not join the TEMPEST program at the cost of AMCA.

No, joining the GCAP program won't mean cancelling AMCA. If anything, the two programs would complement. Some of the technical expertise and knowledge, besides certain technologies from GCAP could be incorporated into the AMCA Mk II as well.

 

[Anant]

I think India can use part of the money from MRFA (see my comments in MRFA story) on TEMPEST program and rest on Indian fighters only including Super Sukhois, Tejas Mk 2, TEDBF, and AMCA.

4+ MRFA program will suck all oxygen (cash) out of all of other programs.
I truly fear it now.

If we are seriously considering joining GCAP, then we could look at scaling down MRFA by a bit. Say, scaling it down from 114 aircraft to 100 aircraft (as an example) would give us 5 squadrons under MRFA (instead of 6, which is manageable), and free up 4-ish billion USD that can be diverted to GCAP.

I am not in favour of cancelling MRFA entirely for the simple reason that HAL cannot be trusted to deliver as per schedule and in the numbers needed to offset MRFA entirely with the impending retirement of older jets in the 2030s, and because something like the Tempest will only mature in the 2040s. Cancelling MRFA puts us at a critical shortage of aircraft from the late-2030s to the mid-2040s, which can prove to be disastrous.

 

[Anant]

Can India manage $8 billion program cost + Y-o-Y inflation ?

Tejas Mk.2: 9000 cr ± 1000
AMCA: 15000 cr

Should be doable. If we scale back MRFA to say, 100 aircraft, that means 5 squadrons instead of 6 in MRFA, but this frees up some 4 billion USD, which can go a large way into GCAP. With some increases to defence budgets and increases in capital acquisition budgets, we should be able to manage the funding.

 

[Anant]

French offer might do India good, much more than this. IF the Brits, Italians, or Japanese knew anything comparable to French in aircraft designing, all 3 wouldn't be begging USA for F-35. Typhoon would have been mass produced crosssing 1000 numbers as originally planned.
French are at least a generation ahead of all these 3 countries in aerospace and avionics.

Not necessarily. France is going ahead with FCAS, but progress on that project is far lesser than what we are seeing in GCAP, even with Germany's involvement. Moreover, the massive costs of French aircraft may well be a point acting against them.

That said, we do need to seriously consider joining either GCAP or FCAS. Too much to lose if we don't.

 

[Ayyadurai Namasivayam]

India should collaborate only with Israel which already built 6th gen fighter

 

[Sandeep]

By looking at the comments there's pros and cons. While the technology is very important the fact is that under joint development programs by countries they first agree on the work share agreement, technology agreements, production agreements and price agreements which are all evenly distributed based upon what they are able to develop and they each produce that part of what they develop. This is to make sure that no country can outcompete the other and produce an entire product by undermining the other on the technology, production and price.

With India they just want the money from us and India will never get to produce the entire jet at all because we could build it much cheaper than them and therefore outcompete them. Also the type of weapons they will use and critical technology like engines, EW, stealth technology etc will never be transferred to India and they won't be compatible to our own existing systems and technology. Another problem is that the western countries can often refuse or delay producing some critical parts that can impact our own operational capability.

 

[Fresh Water]

One clear benefit of going alone -
The scientists and engineers from India will be in highly respected and paid in the global market.

(But, if you join the Tempest or any such program then 100% of the credit would go to occidental scientists and engineers. India would only be credited with providing the funds.
So, go alone to win long-term credibility and respect for Indian talent.)

 

[Fresh Water]

This is an attempt at creating a knowledge gap and talent gap in India.

 

[Fresh Water]

Stealth Fighter jet should b develop on its own , India already opted out from Indo-Russia project. Tempest is Multination project . Not all Tech will b Tranfered. India already approved Funds for AMCA.

India has the right to develop her own technology and talent.

Financially also, investing in building long-term facilities, sciences and intellectual assets generates greater net profits than paying to get the license to use someone else's intellectual property.

 

[Surendra Barsode]

India should seriously consider joining this initiative with UK, Italy and Japan. We need not do everything on our own and we need such collaborations for high tech areas. We must ensure that we are not dependent on anyone for critical technologies for our defense requirements. Once this is achieved, we can always collaborate with others on case to case basis.

 

[Aayush Pratap]

Two sides to every story but the takeaways may well be worth it. Just my two cents.

 

[sanket]

Do you have any brain???
How can the major founder approve shifting R&D, manufacturing and repair hub if GoI had no money to fund of joining the group plus expertise in fields especially if we are asking the use of their IP for Indian use and approval of export🤔🧐....

The real reason IMHO we are not joining is we don't have money😹😹😹 India has so many excuses.....
Mouse is already in the field and ready for the hungry predator to chuckin.... Problem is we are too choosey 😹😹😹

India is not interested But this 3 Nation want India to Join . So this Time on our Condition if Not we have AMCA Project going on no need any other project on there Condition .why we should Invest on there Project just to Manufacture few components , they are clever thay want Investment as well as order for few Hundreds Fighter jet .

 

[Fresh Water]

No company in the UK or the U.S. hires Indian citizens on such projects. Only their own citizens are allowed by their law to work on projects of national security.

Also, there are not many Indian companies in this field because the past government policies.
So, this is not a career option for many. We just comment on articles like this one.

Develop the ecosystem of public/private companies and laboratories in India.
Else, the old saga will continue.

 

[Sparkle Studio]

RR jet engine technology co development with IP transfer can be negotiated if it meets AMCA requirement and is economically competitive. Rest of avionics package can be co developed with Lockheed Martin. We already have much of technology developed.

 

[Neal.B]

Tempest may be a tempting offer. But it may be an attempt to kill India's resolve for indigenous development of defense armaments. India should not join the TEMPEST program at the cost of AMCA.

It should not be at the cost of AMCA but India could look at as a simultaneous project.

 

[Tanishq Bafila]

India should seriously consider joining the TEMPEST program as fourth foundational partner.
India will incur only 1/4th of the cost of development but advantages of getting top level technology on it and also possibility of pollinating Indian fighter programs with that technologies will be very enticing.

But all the negotiations and fine prints should be looked at very seriously with a microscopic examinations.

UK, Japan, Italy, and possibly India joining together and all of them need that 6th generation fighter very badly.

Certainly not , it's a program of UK mainly , it will always have the biggest share then Japan , then Italy and then india...

32 billion is just the estimate , with time the amount will go high , we won't be getting any crucial technology as we are the forth partner..

Remember in the Kf-21 problem , With only 2 partners Indonesia isn't happy with the amount of TOT transfer... Rather than spending billions for just getting some technology , we should give that money to our private and DPSU players...

 

[Gururag Kalanidhi]

Given that India has been struggling to get it's 5th Gen efforts off the ground, joining Tempest in an observer capacity or even with a contribution to the supply chain would go a long way in helping technology trickle down the Indian private sector. Bringing in players like L&T and TASL to the tempest program will benefit India immensely. However, taking such a decision with 2035 in mind requires long term vision, one that the current setup is found lacking. Such a program will not only benefit India, but will also push its standing in the global security order.

 

[Sparkle Studio]

2035!
It's idiotic for india which hasn't even been able to make a proper 5th gen jet to jump into 6th gen program.
India has always stayed out of weapon systems made by a joint collab of more than 3 countries due to supply chain security issues. This won't be any different. Obviously UK will have hold over main radar and engines. Already india is having difficulty selling Tejas due to british ejector seat.

There was a time when the british were capable of making their own fighter jets. But just like the eurofighter typhoon they are forced to collab with other countries

Speaking from an ideological standpoint, if india achieves the milestone of making 6th gen fighter jet the british nationalists will again start to gloat that india couldn't ve done this without british intelligence & capital. Same like how they do vis a vis the british empire

 

[Elie]

India should join lest it get left behind. If they participate they save in both AMCA program, they benefit in contributing & learning in advanced fighter & technologies programs. They will NOT & cannot do this in their own & if they buy the finished product they will pay much more. They cannot afford to sit on the fence and get bullied by China in the future like all nations in the Indo Pacific region. They must start doing something now before 2035 comes around. It really is a no brainer.!