US Shows Renewed Interest in Joint Venture for AMCA Engine

India and the United States had previously initiated discussions on co-developing an engine for AMCA program. These talks had stalled due to disagreements over technology transfer. However, last month, during the second meeting of iCET between NSA Ajit Doval and Jake Sullivan, US officials have expressed renewed enthusiasm for the collaboration, signaling a willingness to reconsider India's demands for greater technology sharing.

US officials have privately conveyed that American engine manufacturers like General Electric (GE) and Pratt & Whitney (P&W) possess unparalleled expertise in next-generation fighter jet engine development. They have indicated a readiness to fulfill many of India's earlier requirements, even those previously seen as difficult to secure congressional approval for.

Currently efforts are underway to obtain clearance for an 80% technology transfer of the F-414 engines for local manufacturing by HAL. There are indications that the US might be open to exceeding this 80% mark specifically for the AMCA program.

However, DRDO Chief has previously reiterated the aspiration for a cutting-edge engine, rejecting mere upgrades to existing 4th-generation engines. The goal is to develop a brand-new engine from the ground up, incorporating 6th-generation technology. This engine would not only power the 5th-generation AMCA but also serve future platforms, ensuring its longevity for the next 40-50 years.

Currently, French company Safran is reportedly leading the race with an offer for a new engine for India's AMCA program. The renewed US interest adds a new dimension to this competition, signaling a potential shift in the landscape of India's defence partnerships.

 

[sanket]

India should go with European Engine Giants i.e Safran or RR, cant Trust US & Development Cost is more . Boeing already failed in Fulfilling offset clause to set up Test facilities for Aero-Engine .

 

[PARTHAJIT JANA]

This engine saga is very important for next decades. Govt in this 5 years should choose and finalise the jv partner, set up all necessary infastructures, testbeds. Its a crown jewel we must have the full knowledge about,full ip no matter how much it costs. Once it comes to fruition it would save us so much money, its applications are 100 fold.

Safran or RR or GE whoever it might be, this knowledge and ip is needed . If there are chances to go onboard with tempest engine with full tot, we should grab them.

BRITAIN needs money, we need knowledge. Among these 3 only safran has no experience in developing 5th gen engine. RR and GE were a contender for f35 5th gen engine, and they made prototypes but ultimately lost to pratt and whitney. This should be a priority for a govt that wants atmanirbharata yet nothing is happening.

 

[ramdas]

There are numerous countries to choose from, sometimes RR, GE, and Safran make quick decisions to kickstart the program. It's unlikely that the AMCA will materialize before the 2040 timeframe.

 

[sanket]

This engine saga is very important for next decades. Govt in this 5 years should choose and finalise the jv partner, set up all necessary infastructures, testbeds. Its a crown jewel we must have the full knowledge about,full ip no matter how much it costs. Once it comes to fruition it would save us so much money, its applications are 100 fold.

Safran or RR or GE whoever it might be, this knowledge and ip is needed . If there are chances to go onboard with tempest engine with full tot, we should grab them.

BRITAIN needs money, we need knowledge. Among these 3 only safran has no experience in developing 5th gen engine. RR and GE were a contender for f35 5th gen engine, and they made prototypes but ultimately lost to pratt and whitney. This should be a priority for a govt that wants atmanirbharata yet nothing is happening.

Not in 5 years Foreign partner for Engine development should b Finalise by Next 6 months , it takes atleast 8 to 10 years for development of Aero-Engine.

 

[sanket]

This engine saga is very important for next decades. Govt in this 5 years should choose and finalise the jv partner, set up all necessary infastructures, testbeds. Its a crown jewel we must have the full knowledge about,full ip no matter how much it costs. Once it comes to fruition it would save us so much money, its applications are 100 fold.

Safran or RR or GE whoever it might be, this knowledge and ip is needed . If there are chances to go onboard with tempest engine with full tot, we should grab them.

BRITAIN needs money, we need knowledge. Among these 3 only safran has no experience in developing 5th gen engine. RR and GE were a contender for f35 5th gen engine, and they made prototypes but ultimately lost to pratt and whitney. This should be a priority for a govt that wants atmanirbharata yet nothing is happening.

But Safran has all the key to develop what India want in AMCA Engine.Even French have FCAS Project they too want Engine for that.Question is who is Reliable partner who can develop Tech after work share agreement and share that ToT with IPR & Project cost should not over Run.

 

[R. Singh]

India should ask for IP rights of jointly developed engine for AMCA program from USA or UK or France !Engine development with France and UK will further delay AMCA project but GE or Pratt & Whitney with Indian Conglomerate jointly make this new engine in India then we should go with USA with a condition that no carrot and stick approach and don't repeat Ge-404 engine supply type problem !

 

[Jayshree]

Don't go with GE, safran is good option with IP and TOT.

 

[Pramkumar]

First we should integrate the Kaveri in MK1 and make the Kaveri 2 with 90Kn wet trust levels

 

[NSR]

India must not go with Safran at all for a new fighter engine.
Their words, promises, and even written contracts have no meaning at all.
France/Dassault/Safran/Thales only operates on sell off the shelf and then upgrade them in future at exorbitant costs like they did to India on Mirage-2000 upgrade.
Just say NO.

Rolls Royce would be a better choice if it has to really signup with a foreign fighter engine company.

Instead India should joint 6th Generation fighter FCAS as a fourth foundational Member and pay 1/4th costs of about approximately $5 billions (Total development costs of about $20 billions) to get its 6th generation fighter.
This will als infuse lots of 5th and 6th generation technologies to India for its Tejas Mk2, TEDBF, and AMCA, and als fighter engine technology.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

Govt should go for UK (Rolls) or US(GE). Both are still salty since their engine didnt get picked for F35 and F22, might not get picked for NGAD (6th gen) fighter.

They are most popular in the export market and due to economies of scale it will be cheaper also than going for French Safran Deal. Only advantage Safran has is that the process will be very smooth, france wont do any shenanigans and it has said it will give 100% ToT(very very sceptical)

 

[De_SECULARISED]

This fiasco is just to keep hanging the Indian engine dream.
Just go with RR or Safran, keeping US offering aside.

 

[abhinav srivastava]

Since we have shelved our R&D for jet engines, we will have to dance to JVs tune.

 

[Harsh Wardhan Gunthey]

But Safran has all the key to develop what India want in AMCA Engine.Even French have FCAS Project they too want Engine for that.Question is who is Reliable partner who can develop Tech after work share agreement and share that ToT with IPR & Project cost should not over Run.

You will basically fund fcas engine and french do not have a reputation of honoring ToT,

Terxton (american business jet making company) had to abandon their plan for next generation of citation jet because they designed aircraft arround safran silvercrest engine. They were not able to develop a small size hi-bypass turbofan against promised deadlines as french engineers are retiring early and new machinists are lazy. Mind you Silvercrest engine was smaller (1/4 size and capability of CFM Leap or PW1000 series!) arround 80KN.

Do you think they are capable of developing a high thrust low bypass engine for fifth gen jet?

 

[MANIVANNAN N]

US never share advanced tech.

 

[MANIVANNAN N]

Getting enough funds for all important projects. Then why need of US or Europe. Develop everthing here.

 

[wallisk]

This fiasco is just to keep hanging the Indian engine dream.
Just go with RR or Safran, keeping US offering aside.

Better for G2G mode direct deliveries deal of 114 nos. Rafale F4.2 and 26 nos. of Rafale-M jets TOTAL deal perhaps around 28 to 29 billions usd total deal. Thyen automatically Safran-GTRE will start for a NEW DESIGNS of 120 KN max. wet thrusts engines; as also these 140 Rafale jets will gets built at Dassault MRO India facility only!

FORGET SU57-SU75 AS IT WILL ONLY IRRITATE BIDEN ADMIN. TO SANCTION INDIA VERY HARD!

 

[wallisk]

Getting enough funds for all important projects. Then why need of US or Europe. Develop everthing here.

will take too much longer time - see Tejas taking 42 years ; now MK2 another 25 to 30 years might be so, and AMCA at least 35 years are needed! Engines- Kaveri2.0 with Bharath Forge-Midhani-GTRE jv have started to develop a BRAND NEW Kaveri2.0 90 KN max. wet thrusts engines already going on now... But all ppl says that fighter jet engines testing and maturity requires at least MINIMUM 10 years!

 

[wallisk]

Govt should go for UK (Rolls) or US(GE). Both are still salty since their engine didnt get picked for F35 and F22, might not get picked for NGAD (6th gen) fighter.

They are most popular in the export market and due to economies of scale it will be cheaper also than going for French Safran Deal. Only advantage Safran has is that the process will be very smooth, france wont do any shenanigans and it has said it will give 100% ToT(very very sceptical)

only choice now for suitable jet engines RR or Safran.. That is why I am saying just cancel MRFA 100% ToT as it is simply NOT feasible at all and do G2G orders with Dassault. They will build the jets at India MRO facility only and help to develop Safran-GTRE 120 KN max. wet thrusts engines also!

 

[wallisk]

Since we have shelved our R&D for jet engines, we will have to dance to JVs tune.

Kaveri2.0 with Bharath Forge-Midhani-GTRE jv have started to develop a BRAND NEW Kaveri2.0 90 KN max. wet thrusts engines already going on now... But all ppl says that fighter jet engines testing and maturity requires at least MINIMUM 10 years..