France Offers Advanced Materials and Metallurgy Collaboration for AMCA Jet's 110kN Engine Development with India

In a significant boost to India's indigenous defence manufacturing ambitions, France has pledged its support for the development of a powerful 110kN engine destined for the nation's Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) program.

This collaborative effort will see France provide crucial technical expertise and support in the complex process of designing and building the advanced engine, which is expected to significantly enhance the AMCA's long-range strike capabilities.

The partnership extends beyond engine development, encompassing cooperation in advanced materials and metallurgy. These fields are fundamental to the production of critical components in both military and civilian engines.

This collaboration presents a valuable opportunity for Indian industries to gain expertise in advanced metallurgy, specifically in the intricate processes of forging and casting components vital for aircraft engines.

Mastering these technologies is essential for India to fully absorb and utilize the high-end technology involved in such joint ventures.

While France has committed to supporting the 110kN engine program, the final decision on which company will lead the engine's development for the AMCA 5th generation fighter remains pending.

India's Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) is currently evaluating proposals from industry giants GE Aerospace and Rolls-Royce, while also exploring the possibility of an entirely in-house development program.

The ultimate choice of engine developer carries significant implications for India's defence industry and its long-term strategic objectives. A successful outcome to this program would not only strengthen India's military might but also position the country as a key player in the global aerospace arena.

This development aligns with a broader trend of increasing defence cooperation between India and France. Recent reports indicate that France has also offered to collaborate on other critical defence technologies, including nuclear submarines and underwater drones, further solidifying the strategic partnership between the two nations.

 

[R. Singh]

Don't waste time and select engine development partner who offer 100% tech with IP rights ! Joint development of fighter jet engines and next gen fighter with France will be good for India !

 

[Sivbal]

Gas Turbine Research Establishment(GTRE): Till date India didn't produce even a commercial grade gas turbine engine for aviation. All we develop was a couple of Kaveri prototypes that is not even fit for using in IN ships to replace Ukrainian gas turbine power plants. With this experience at hand how come GTRE can evaluating proposals from Hi-Tech companies like GE, Rolls Royce, Safran etc... This is my doubt. I think the whole approach should be different. People here can clarify....I think it is high time for the government to form a consortium includes DPSUs and private sector which should overseen by PMO or any highest authority in the government.... so that any cutting edge technologies(if any 🙂) coming as a result of these kind of partnership should be absorbed and converted to actual defense products. Already we have seen examples in case of SU-30MKI AL-31FP engine tech transfer case. Till now nobody in the public know how much tech transfer has been done to HAL and whether they can produce the engine without Russian OEM's help.

 

[Muthu.Kumar]

Looks like France fully understood India's future aerospace potential and requirements much better than India itself and wants to do HEAVY inroads into the industry, using the gaps in the India's deal with GE.

Since India CAN'T AND WON'T bring up a fully and 100% indigenous 100+ kN (or even an 80+ kN) Kaveri, it should embrace Safran which offers a 100% TOT with absolutely no strings attached - as the money is much greener, lol.

 

[kunitesh]

GTRE consider in house development of this complex fighter engine ..not sure why we waste so much time in wishing something so ambitious like this..we should leverage this strategic partnership and willingness of France to share high end technology and quickly seal the engine deal and Rafale deal

 

[sanket]

Good News, Just clear all doubts and then Sign deal for Engine development project with France No loophole should b remained .US is Back stabber & Not Like to 100% ToT & Export Restriction plus war Time Sanctions US like to guard Tech anyway, While may want to Hold Joint IPR for the developed Engine India .

 

[M S ChatterjiVerified member]

Desperate to keep India as a big client. They must lower development costs.

 

[Instant Karma]

France does not have anything to offer. They just want to loot India.

 

[kurtwallis wallis]

Desperate to keep India as a big client. They must lower development costs.

it only means that new ACM seriously considering LM and Boeing F21 and F18SH jets now since Rafale-M already costs 400 millions usd per unit of jet lifetime costs...

 

[kurtwallis wallis]

yaaaa right..... and loot 100's Billions usd from India next!

 

[MANIVANNAN N]

Why just engine development. It can join with amca program so both will produce 5.5 gen fighter. Currently not with france. Fund also can share.

 

[beencensured]

India has proven it has the technology by fixing the AL31 engine, but handholding for commission for MoD seems more important. A flying test bed would be hundred times cheaper then wasting resources on joint ventures.

 

[Akshat]

France does not have anything to offer. They just want to loot India.

Clearly GoI doesn't think so. That's why discussions are going on.

 

[Akshat]

it only means that new ACM seriously considering LM and Boeing F21 and F18SH jets now since Rafale-M already costs 400 millions usd per unit of jet lifetime costs...

Wanna revise the price to 500 million USD 'per unit of jet lifetime costs', whatever that means?

 

[Akshat]

yaaaa right..... and loot 100's Billions usd from India next!

That's DPSU's job.

 

[beencensured]

Good News, Just clear all doubts and then Sign deal for Engine development project with France No loophole should b remained .US is Back stabber & Not Like to 100% ToT & Export Restriction plus war Time Sanctions US like to guard Tech anyway, While may want to Hold Joint IPR for the developed Engine India .

The inferiorty complex with doubt out of their azz stink up the possibility of development and testing of engine. So these handholding exercise never think if India can improve the al31 engine then it probably can do on its own.

 

[beencensured]

That's DPSU's job.

You wish dpsu get that kind of fund like french wine and etc.

 

[Instant Karma]

Clearly GoI doesn't think so. That's why discussions are going on.

Indian airforce is not happy with the radar of Rafale and that is why they want to replace it with uttam. Engines are not also powerful.

 

[Akshat]

You wish dpsu get that kind of fund like french wine and etc.

They get whatever they ask for. They practically get to open their mouth and voila...granted. I wish they don't get even a penny from now on.

 

[Akshat]

Indian airforce is not happy with the radar of Rafale and that is why they want to replace it with uttam. Engines are not also powerful.

Nope. IAF never asked for any replacements. And engines are powerful enough to use them on even our forward most high altitude bases. Don't know what else is needed.

 

[Akshat]

The inferiorty complex with doubt out of their azz stink up the possibility of development and testing of engine. So these handholding exercise never think if India can improve the al31 engine then it probably can do on its own.

What else can we do but have inferiority complex, since all we have seen is how these DRDO and DPSUs take billions of dollars from our budgets, eat up all the projects, and do nothing?

 

[AK S]

What else can we do but have inferiority complex, since all we have seen is how these DRDO and DPSUs take billions of dollars from our budgets, eat up all the projects, and do nothing?

Best and brightest are free to join. Even private sectors are free to invest in relevant R&D. But it’s been left to the mediocre.

French Nationals are welcome too. You can help.

 

[DNA57]

414 engine with GE and 110Kn engine with Safran.... very good arrangement. Each will counterbalance other and keep in check.

 

[AK S]

Wanna revise the price to 500 million USD 'per unit of jet lifetime costs', whatever that means?

The barebone Rafale M is costing upwards of $140m. Unfortunately we need it badly … MiG29s are not a good option in current geopolitical situation.

 

[Akshat]

Best and brightest are free to join. Even private sectors are free to invest in relevant R&D. But it’s been left to the mediocre.

French Nationals are welcome too. You can help.

No one will join unless there are tenders. There are companies for all the products for which GoI issues open tenders. But where are the tenders for the big products? Without tenders how would the best and the brightest of Indians join?

 

[AK S]

Nope. IAF never asked for any replacements. And engines are powerful enough to use them on even our forward most high altitude bases. Don't know what else is needed.

IAF didn’t as we didn’t have AESA and GaN then. Navy did press for indigenous GaN AESA and jammer. But Dassault asked for our arms and legs. Finally GoI declined it on the cost benefit ground.

Wish we invested in TEDBF program earlier. Significant resources is now being forked out and sent to France.

 

[Akshat]

IAF didn’t as we didn’t have AESA and GaN then. Navy did press for indigenous GaN AESA and jammer. But Dassault asked for our arms and legs. Finally GoI declined it on the cost benefit ground.

Wish we invested in TEDBF program earlier. Significant resources is now being forked out and sent to France.

We don't have GaN even now. We don't even have an operational AESA radar. Uttam for Mk1A alone will come in som 3 years. Making a brand new one for Dassault will be even more time consuming.

And totally agree. I wish we had decided in 2015 to make a Tedbf, based on Kaveri engines. We could have given it to Tatas or L&T or a conglomerate. That would have really helped us right now. But alas, some great IITian RM had other ideas.

 

[AK S]

They get whatever they ask for. They practically get to open their mouth and voila...granted. I wish they don't get even a penny from now on.

Just the the typical French propaganda to kill anything indigenous … particularly Kaveri engine (or even GE F414) and Mk2. These developments threaten French business directly and materially. They would only like to see MRFA. So your desire is understood.

DRDO and HAL really work on tight shoe string budgets. $300m in todays money for entire Kaveri program over two decades vs $300m written off on failed FGFA design participation (about a decade ago) or $1.5B for India Specific Enhancements in Rafale (again about 7 years back). Our entire budget for brand new MK2 is 25% less than that. IAF somehow doesn’t like the French standards and willing to spend arms and legs for its modifications.

GoI and IAF haven’t delivered even basic infra for engine development … not even high altitude simulation labs IAF cannot spare one MiG29 it doesn’t matter half of the fleet is grounded.

 

[Akshat]

The barebone Rafale M is costing upwards of $140m. Unfortunately we need it badly … MiG29s are not a good option in current geopolitical situation.

And again, I am sure you won't have any official proof whatsoever to prove the 140 million dollar figure of yours, right? Not even one?

 

[AK S]

Why just engine development. It can join with amca program so both will produce 5.5 gen fighter. Currently not with france. Fund also can share.

France don’t need their own 5th gen. NATO has F35 and they are covered.