HAL Pushes for Homegrown Cargo Transporter to Stay Afloat in MTA Race

Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), India's state-owned aerospace giant, is pushing for the development of a fully indigenous cargo transporter.

This move comes as HAL feels the pressure of potential exclusion from the upcoming Medium Transport Aircraft (MTA) program. The development of an indigenous platform also plays into India's increasing focus on self-reliance in defense.

HAL's push for an indigenous solution comes on the heels of a private Indian company's successful execution of the C-295 transport aircraft order, marking a historical first for the country's defense sector.

Sources familiar with the MTA program confirm HAL's advocacy for a domestically developed cargo aircraft. This approach aligns with the government's goal of bolstering India's self-reliance in military technology and could offer long-term advantages in maintenance and upgrades.

The Indian Air Force (IAF) Chief's recent announcement regarding the replacement of its aging An-32 and IL-76 fleets with MTAs by 2030 and beyond presents a highly lucrative opportunity.

The potential for an order potentially exceeding 100 aircraft over the next two decades makes the MTA tender a highly desirable contract for defense contractors worldwide.

India's decision to withdraw from the collaborative MTA program with Russia, in which HAL held a key role, deprived the company of a pre-existing design for the IAF's needs.

Furthermore, several foreign aerospace companies interested in the IAF's tender have opted to partner with private Indian firms. This strategic move could potentially marginalize HAL if it doesn't put forward a compelling domestic solution.

The Indian government and the IAF are faced with a critical choice. Will they favor the potential long-term benefits of a fully indigenous aircraft spearheaded by HAL, or will the lure of established foreign platforms and partnerships with the private sector prove more appealing?

Ultimately, the coming months will prove pivotal in shaping the future of India's military transport aircraft capabilities and HAL's role within it.

 

[ABHIJIT APSINGIKAR]

India and Russia had serious disagreements on work share and technology share.
In the end, they gave up.
So also Ka-226T after almost 9+ years, and Ak-203 is also gone for good I guess.

Work share?.seriously, when we don't have the capability to independently built a transporter, we are worried about work share? We ought to have just taken what was avaliable and built capacity.

Anyway, if HAL was serious about offering a transporter to IAF, they should have initiated proposal to develop one immedeatly after they pulled out of the project. Then the timelines would have been in sync with this procurement. But pitching the proposal now and expect government to delay procurement just for sake of giving chance to locally developed alternative just does not make sense as it would jeopardize IAF capability.

 

[beencensured]

Developing our product takes time.If they are start developing it now, then the prototype, testing and production will atleast take 15-20 years.

The only reason they are pitching the idea at this late stage is to derail the IAF's transport aircraft procurement. They seem to be bitter that theybwont be having any stake in the project.

They did the same during C-295 procurement, when they suddenly offered to modify HS-748 Avro at a very late stage, even when the IAF had turned down the idea previously.

Assembly is more shameless as it does not require talents of the country to use their gifted brains for the development of country, and so causing trillions of dollars in brain drain. Besides procurement may take five to ten years, making on own may take 10-12 years, but there are more benefits for making on own as we develop a talent pool. I would say HAL should build a heavy lift too as that would be even better but make private a partner.

 

[Frank]

Yo IIT brain, Mahindra has its own engine line which it uses and TATA does not use German engines but rather uses Fiat engines. FIAT IS ITALIAN NOT GERMAN.

Tata uses Italian engines... Wow totally not a problem at all..
Tata a major car company of 1.4 billion people still imports engine after 70 years in business.. I guess it's totally fine..

Mahindra imports majority of engines and transmission.
Some they make locally...

You literally 30 IQ M0nkey.
Teaching you just a waste of time..

Don't reply to me from now on unless you have very valid point.

 

[Paul]

MRFA is partially stalled due to obduracy of IAF and partially due to the ineptitude and inherent inefficiency of bureaucracy. Between 2017-19, the government was prepared to order an additional tranche 36-50, Rafale by using the contract options. But, back then IAF, rejected the proposal and insisted upon acquiring bulk order of 114 Rafale. But as that would have cost the government upwards $20 billion, the Bureaucracy in Finance Ministry and the Finance department of MOD developed cold feet and since negotiations on pricing could not make significant headway it's more or less stalled.

That's a political decision, and I agree with it.
However, my point is that I'm not against private players or HAL. In my opinion, India should proceed with the MRFA to address the immediate aircraft shortfall. We have also gained expertise in the fighter aircraft domain and have developed our own ecosystem for producing aircraft such as the Mk1, Mk2, and AMCA.

Similarly, I advocate for applying the same approach in the transport aircraft domain. While we are building Dornier Aircraft and collaborating with private players on the C295 Aircraft, and have acquired several C17 aircraft, we haven't initiated any indigenous projects thus far. Therefore, if there is a shortfall that needs immediate attention, we should purchase a few directly from the OEM and invest the rest in our own product—a balanced approach. Does that make sense?

 

[Kira]

Please leave HAL aside for this crucial project given that they can't even manage or complete on whats on order today.

 

[beencensured]

Own endeavor makes sense when ultimately it leads to a successful product.

HAL hasn't covered itself up in glory yet on that front.

C-295 might be a screwdriving project, but expect that project to complete in due time and mostly within the contracted budget.

Again, a country that can design forth plus generational planes with a higher composite ratio then f-22 f-35 and many planes on the market, why not try to make a light weight medium transport plane and heavy lift plane, but some would rather lose trillions of dollars economy by losing important talent due to brain drain for some bstrads hatred for all things Indian keeping India a regressive colony and slave.

 

[ABHIJIT APSINGIKAR]

Assembly is more shameless as it does not require talents of the country to use their gifted brains for the development of country, and so causing trillions of dollars in brain drain. Besides procurement may take five to ten years, making on own may take 10-12 years, but there are more benefits for making on own as we develop a talent pool. I would say HAL should build a heavy lift too as that would be even better but make private a partner.

As I said previously, I have no issues with developing it indigenously. Develop platforms by all means, but it can't be linked to the IAF procurement schedule. Its like saying Hey I love my daughter so much that i would go out of my way to learn all trades including cooking, flower decoration, music, study rituals and pooja required in her marriage. What do u think will happen? the daughter will be left unmarried for her life as she would be well past the marriage age.

Its the same. Our enemies are not going to wait for HAL to develop the capability to build the aircraft indigenously. So if it so means that we may need to assemble aircraft in near term then so be it, do it and address IAF/IA/IN capacity gaps immediately. While continue developing the appropriate domestic technologies to substitute imports in long run. Just don't expect IAF and Government to sit down and wait till u finish developing the platform.

 

[beencensured]

That's the problem. I have absolutely no issues with HAL initiating the project. But what I have issue is HAL pushing that project for.IAF present and near future requirement as it is absolutely unlikely to enter service atleast for next 2 decades.

It shameless the country does not spend two billion dollars for this project.

 

[ABHIJIT APSINGIKAR]

Tata uses Italian engines... Wow totally not a problem at all..
Tata a major car company of 1.4 billion people still imports engine after 70 years in business.. I guess it's totally fine..

Mahindra imports majority of engines and transmission.
Some they make locally...

You literally 30 IQ M0nkey.
Teaching you just a waste of time..

Don't reply to me from now on unless you have very valid point.

Mahindra has its own engine line googke it its called M Hawk engines. They are good and infact so good that Ford wanted to use it within their cars.

 

[beencensured]

Why don't modi friend Adani Ambani... Take this as challenge???

They get all the sweet deals anyway

Adani never risk his money only on guaranteed schemes as not really a capitalist but crony capitalism, but adani name might make the project successful as any private company as he would generate marketing hype unlike HAL who generates backlash.

 

[Instant Karma]

Excellent development from the house of HAL.

 

[Sudha]

Well, they are within there rights to ask for this. After all every organistaion looks after its interests. I believe defence ministry will look at all proposals carefully and make decision together with IAF.

Excluding HAL, if Bharat's security should not be compromised.

 

[NSR]

Work share?.seriously, when we don't have the capability to independently built a transporter, we are worried about work share? We ought to have just taken what was avaliable and built capacity.

Anyway, if HAL was serious about offering a transporter to IAF, they should have initiated proposal to develop one immedeatly after they pulled out of the project. Then the timelines would have been in sync with this procurement. But pitching the proposal now and expect government to delay procurement just for sake of giving chance to locally developed alternative just does not make sense as it would jeopardize IAF capability.

You need to know the facts first before you write.
There was a disagreement over engine and who makes what in the MTA project, and like in Ka-226T or AK-203.
And then India bought 12 C-130Js and C-17s.
India also upgraded AN-32s and to some extent IL-76s avionics, and tried to install new avionics in Avros, etc
They were not sitting idly.
But they need a MTA with 30 MTon capacity to replace most of IL-76s.

Even with C295, Airbus and TATA do work share and TATA gets to do the aircraft shell only and all avionics and landing gear comes from Spain and Frace, etc

Get the facts right first. Do not be argumentative.

 

[Sudha]

If you're so concerned about the delays, why is the fighter squadron experiencing delays in the MRFA? Doesn't Bharat's security matter anymore? Regarding the Tejas Mk 1A, the indigenous content will be around 65-70%. My suggestion is to adopt a balanced approach to address the aircraft shortfall and develop our own products.

GOI is pressurising IAF to go indigenous, Tejas mk2, that is why the delay in MRFA. Let us see the outcome. Am not against indigenous products. You handover project to HAL they will take their own sweet time to deliver. Are you even aware of the tejasmk1 contract? In 9 years HAL has only delivered 33 planes an efficiency no other OEMs can beat, an average of 3.50 planes on an infra of 16 planes. If some private sector goes for the project, will definitely support it. HAL "no", till they deliver on time.

 

[Sudha]

HAL should be able to use its own funds to at least design aircrafts and present them for better understanding of Govt and IAF. Going indegenious route is a much better thing than to opt for foreign aircraft.

This transport aircraft will help us in developing long range bombers. Maybe stealth bombers too in the future. We have to go for it.

Project minus HAL in screw driving will be stupendous, till HAL delivers on time.

 

[Anil Sabaji]

Govt should allow private players to participate in MTA tender with minimum Indian material content of 50% going up to 80% over time,. This will help in building an ecosystem in the country and reduce delivery timeline.

 

[ABHIJIT APSINGIKAR]

Well, they are within there rights to ask for this. After all every organistaion looks after its interests. I believe defence ministry will look at all proposals carefully and make decision together with IAF.

Its one thing to pitch it, with a solid plan to realistically develop the platform on a very tight deadlines but its quite a different issue when even they know that they do not have any realistic chance of developing it on a timeline that is in sync with IAF transport fleet modernization plan.

 

[Ankit]

HAL should also include civilian aircraft variant in its plan

 

[ABHIJIT APSINGIKAR]

You need to know the facts first before you write.
There was a disagreement over engine and who makes what in the MTA project, and like in Ka-226T or AK-203.
And then India bought 12 C-130Js and C-17s.
India also upgraded AN-32s and to some extent IL-76s avionics, and tried to install new avionics in Avros, etc
They were not sitting idly.
But they need a MTA with 30 MTon capacity to replace most of IL-76s.

Even with C295, Airbus and TATA do work share and TATA gets to do the aircraft shell only and all avionics and landing gear comes from Spain and Frace, etc

Get the facts right first. Do not be argumentative.

Thats the thing isnt it, why was there a disagreement over engine and workshare? Did HAL realistically think that Russians would allow any other engine from foreign OEM to be fitted onto their platform or any foreign OEM would realistically allow their engines to be fitted onto the Russian transporter? HAl had a window of opportunity right after the deal fell through to do homework and come up with a solid plan to design and build one indigenously. Despite acquiring C-130 and C-17 there was still unmet requirement for additional transport aircraft. Had they come up with a realistic plan that was most importantly achievable within the IAF transport aircraft fleet modernization program timelines, it could have been possible. But now not so much. IAF needs iit within the next 5-10 years not 20--30 years. Hence continue developing the platform by all means, pitch it at later date, but just don't expect the IAF to sit and wait for next 20-30 years. IAF will induct them when they are ready and available but defense modernization will have to continue uninterrupted.

 

[ABHIJIT APSINGIKAR]

That's a political decision, and I agree with it.
However, my point is that I'm not against private players or HAL. In my opinion, India should proceed with the MRFA to address the immediate aircraft shortfall. We have also gained expertise in the fighter aircraft domain and have developed our own ecosystem for producing aircraft such as the Mk1, Mk2, and AMCA.

Similarly, I advocate for applying the same approach in the transport aircraft domain. While we are building Dornier Aircraft and collaborating with private players on the C295 Aircraft, and have acquired several C17 aircraft, we haven't initiated any indigenous projects thus far. Therefore, if there is a shortfall that needs immediate attention, we should purchase a few directly from the OEM and invest the rest in our own product—a balanced approach. Does that make sense?

That I agree with. But as it seems acquiring rights to license assemble within India also has its own perks. One of them would be relatively lower labor costs and capacity building for taking more complex projects at a later date.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

Its one thing to pitch it, with a solid plan to realistically develop the platform on a very tight deadlines but its quite a different issue when even they know that they do not have any realistic chance of developing it on a timeline that is in sync with IAF transport fleet modernization plan.

You may be right, but this type of behaviour is standard. More competition is a good thing. We should encourage it. If HAL wants to compete, let them present a detailed plan.

 

[NSR]

to do homework and come up with a solid plan to design and build one indigenously.

What country are you living man?

India failed to design even simple regional passenger plane so far to attempt to design a military transport.
Come to reality, keyboard warrior.

 

[ABHIJIT APSINGIKAR]

What country are you living man?

India failed to design even simple regional passenger plane so far to attempt to design a military transport.
Come to reality, keyboard warrior.

Well u seem to have answered ur own point. What has changed Now from Then? If they could not design and build it back then, what makes u think they can do it now?

So why bother wasting our effort on fools errand that in most probability would be delayed endlessly and would push back IAF transport fleet modernization.

 

[Paul]

That I agree with. But as it seems acquiring rights to license assemble within India also has its own perks. One of them would be relatively lower labor costs and capacity building for taking more complex projects at a later date.

We have to depend on the OEM for any modifications, etc. For example, HAL produced Su-30MKI at an estimated cost of around $62 million per aircraft, which is approximately $22 million higher than the Su-30 jets supplied by Russia. These are not my words, but rather taken from the news. The same applies to all projects despite lower labor costs.

 

[Deepak Hegde]

Screw driving is a metaphor, not meant literally

Problem is Indian private companies are dhandomaxxers.

Total shameless and only care for profit. Nation can go down..

Tata Mahindra.. Making cars for dacades still they import engines from Germany...

It's not a symptom it's the disease

The DPSU's are the disease. Totally shameless, only care for salary and chai samosa. Nation can go down ! DPSU's manufacturing same old obsolete things for decades, still cant do competently or on time. Worse still, now under the cover of atmanirbharta, they want a fast pass for incompetence and timeless delays. DPSU's are nothing but shameless black holes. Earlier they are shut, the better!

 

[Deepak Hegde]

That I agree with. But as it seems acquiring rights to license assemble within India also has its own perks. One of them would be relatively lower labor costs and capacity building for taking more complex projects at a later date.

Lower labor costs are not really true as Indian productivity is one of the lowest in the world !

 

[Arz786]

Again, a country that can design forth plus generational planes with a higher composite ratio then f-22 f-35 and many planes on the market, why not try to make a light weight medium transport plane and heavy lift plane, but some would rather lose trillions of dollars economy by losing important talent due to brain drain for some bstrads hatred for all things Indian keeping India a regressive colony and slave.

Yes, we have been developing SARAS ( 19 seater) since 1993. This was similar to Do-228. However, 30 years and many hundred crores of rupees, what do we have ? a generation of employees who joined, got promoted and retired on this program with no certified aircraft yet !

 

[Frank]

The DPSU's are the disease. Totally shameless, only care for salary and chai samosa. Nation can go down ! DPSU's manufacturing same old obsolete things for decades, still cant do competently or on time. Worse still, now under the cover of atmanirbharta, they want a fast pass for incompetence and timeless delays. DPSU's are nothing but shameless black holes. Earlier they are shut, the better!

agree.. but our private companies are no better.. only import screw driver and make profit...

only strong leader can change that..

alas..

 

[Arz786]

Remember that TATA only assembles the body C-295 and screw drives the sub-assemblies.
All of avionics and landing gear comes from Spain, France, etc
TATA does not manufacture them in India it only connects male connector to female connector, installs and screw drives.

I hope it will not be the same with MTA too.
Embraer has not sold many and India will buy many so Embraer must roll out a best offer.

Lockheed Martin is also offering a local production deal but its cargo capacity is at the lower end of requirements.
India needs a bigger aircraft.

Tata also makes the entire airframe of C-295 in Hyderabad, Then assemble of airframe with engine, avionics etc. takes place in Gujarat. i think around 20% will be indigenous therefore.

 

[ABHIJIT APSINGIKAR]

We have to depend on the OEM for any modifications, etc. For example, HAL produced Su-30MKI at an estimated cost of around $62 million per aircraft, which is approximately $22 million higher than the Su-30 jets supplied by Russia. These are not my words, but rather taken from the news. The same applies to all projects despite lower labor costs.

Thats true. Lower labor costs only go as far, and the cost of licensing fees more or less evens out any gains. The only benefit is capacity building and jon creation. Also, to a certain extent private sector can license assemble far more efficiently than PSU.