India Eyes Advanced German Submarines: Focus on Stealth and Air-Independent Propulsion

An Indian Navy delegation is embarking on a visit to ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS) facilities in Germany.

Their mission? A close inspection of the advanced U-212/214 submarines offered as part of India's ambitious Project-75I, a tender designed to significantly modernize the nation's underwater combat capabilities.

Project 75I: A Critical Investment​

Project-75I is a cornerstone of India's naval modernization plans. It aims to acquire six next-generation, conventionally powered submarines equipped with cutting-edge technologies.

These submarines are crucial for safeguarding India's vast maritime interests and maintaining strategic leverage in the Indian Ocean region.

The U-212/214 Advantage​

The German-designed U-212/214 class submarines stand out due to their unique design. Their 'one-and-a-half' hull configuration and non-magnetic steel pressure hull grant them exceptional stealth capabilities, making them challenging to detect.

However, the key advantage lies in their Air-Independent Propulsion (AIP) system. AIP technology allows submarines to operate submerged for extended periods without surfacing to recharge batteries. This significantly reduces vulnerability and dramatically expands the submarines' operational reach.

Partnership and Technology Transfer​

TKMS's bid for Project-75I includes a collaboration with India's Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Limited (MDL). This aligns with India's ambition to develop a robust indigenous shipbuilding industry through technology transfers.

If successful, this partnership could give India the knowledge and capabilities for future submarine construction and maintenance.

A Strategic Assessment​

The Indian Navy's inspection signifies a vital step in Project-75I. If the U-212/214 submarines impress, further negotiations could commence, potentially culminating in their acquisition.

The addition of these stealthy, long-endurance submarines would represent a major leap forward for India's maritime defense posture.

The Future of India's Underwater Strength​

The outcome of Project-75I will have far-reaching implications for the balance of power in the Indian Ocean.

The Indian Navy's expanding capabilities are essential to maintaining regional stability and protecting India's economic and strategic interests at sea.

 

[GMR]

Both subs on offer have VLS?

 

[Anant]

Both subs on offer have VLS?

Neither has VLS cells. The submarines can launch SLCMs from their torpedo tubes. A very major redesign would be required to include a VLS plug.

It is more likely Porject 76 may include VLS cells.

 

[INDIAN]

Will Germany share the magnetic hull tech of U212 submarine..?
U214 is export version will lesser capability than U212.

 

[charminar_waale_ismail_bhai]

So, basically all knowledge gained from assembling Scorpene submarines will go down the drain. Our desi shipyards can not improvise to produce a platform they have been assembling for 20 years.

At this stage, I believe bidding should remove any ToT clause and instead focus on getting the cheapest deal.

Either way, our DPSUs don't benefit from ToT. Its like teaching intricacies of Artificial intelligence to Rahul Baba.

 

[Sudha]

P75I was envisaged to be a project under the private sector. Still the "make in India" government is now giving it to the inefficient DPSU MDL which due to it's delay in completing the scropene subs led to a cost escalation of over $ 1 billion. GOI should stop promising the skies to the private sector in the defence contracts because it is hardly giving any major projects to the private sector.

 

[Pink Panther]

Neither has VLS cells. The submarines can launch SLCMs from their torpedo tubes. A very major redesign would be required to include a VLS plug.

It is more likely Porject 76 may include VLS cells.

Even Korean that is based on Type-212 didn’t have VLS initially, but Koreans added now that has 6 VLS cells, we need modified Type-212 class submarine that Germany made for Israel with VLS cells called INS Drakon that belongs to Dolphin class Israel.

 

[Sudha]

Will Germany share the magnetic hull tech of U212 submarine..?
U214 is export version will lesser capability than U212.

If you want to depend on DPSUs take what is given to you for you will always be tech beggars till DPSUs rule the roost.

 

[Sudha]

Even Korean that is based on Type-212 didn’t have VLS initially, but Koreans added now that has 6 VLS cells, we need modified Type-212 class submarine that Germany made for Israel with VLS cells called INS Drakon that belongs to Dolphin class Israel.

Hats off to Koreans who seem to be better than our MDL.

 

[Pink Panther]

Will Germany share the magnetic hull tech of U212 submarine..?
U214 is export version will lesser capability than U212.

I don’t think so.

 

[charminar_waale_ismail_bhai]

Hats off to Koreans who seem to be better than our MDL.

Better?
There is no comparison.

 

[Pink Panther]

So, basically all knowledge gained from assembling Scorpene submarines will go down the drain. Our desi shipyards can not improvise to produce a platform they have been assembling for 20 years.

At this stage, I believe bidding should remove any ToT clause and instead focus on getting the cheapest deal.

Either way, our DPSUs don't benefit from ToT. Its like teaching intricacies of Artificial intelligence to Rahul Baba.

There is not even much learning to go down the drain.

 

[charminar_waale_ismail_bhai]

P75I was envisaged to be a project under the private sector. Still the "make in India" government is now giving it to the inefficient DPSU MDL which due to it's delay in completing the scropene subs led to a cost escalation of over $ 1 billion. GOI should stop promising the skies to the private sector in the defence contracts because it is hardly giving any major projects to the private sector.

The private sector are also not putting their hats in the ring.
Thing is, while talks are cheap the government hasn't followed its action with its talks.
The the time DPSUs are a thing, private sector ain't going to burn fingers into defence projects with Indian Armed Forces.

To understand private sector's wariness, we have to understand the fact that unlike capital goods & services, in defence contracting, the GoI is the only customer. One customer is too high a risk for any private player to commit large sum of money to research & development.

You can notice this at play when you observe that most areas where Indian Private industry has forayed into, is also in the fields such as ordinance and artillery where they are able to cater to export markets.

 

[Pink Panther]

Hats off to Koreans who seem to be better than our MDL.

Koreans are good in manufacturing, Germany already modified Type-212 to include VLS for Israel, we can ask the Germans to provide us the same design as Israeli INS Drakon, this is enlarged variant of Type 212.

 

[Baiju Bhaskaran]

ATAGS for Army, MRFA for IAF and P75 for Navy are unending projects which has already completed more than fifteen years. Still neither the government has the political will or forces have the courage to scrap these projects. This shows the power of anti Bharath deep state.

 

[charminar_waale_ismail_bhai]

There is not even much learning to go down the drain.

Well, money was paid to DCNS in the name of ToT to MDL.
If not much learning happened the fault lay with MDL.

The Koreans learned from whatever technology was transferred to them as part of KSS-II submarine project and let the technology evolve into an improved KSS-III submarine which they have been pitching in the international market.

MDL could have built an improved Kalvari class by substituting parts for which technoloy was not transferred with local alternatives. But they decided not to pursue the long-term game.

 

[SK]

It's wastage of time & resources, Indian Navy should've considered to invest in:-

1. Additional 3 to 6 Kalvari-SSKs with DRDO's AIP system
2. At least 12 Super-Kalvari SSKs with DRDO's AIP system

This could've allowed Indian shipbuilding industry to have work for almost a decade & for Indian-Navy to get SSKs at a cheaper rate due to Economy of Scales.

Save money on SSKs & invest in SSNs.

 

[NSR]

Great news.
Glad to know that GoI is pushing hard to acquire P-75I submarines.

Germany is really trying very hard to get this contract with offers of Non-Magnet Hull for stealth and new generation of AIP, and also possibly Lion battery systems too.

Try to give this contract to L&T as it already has good experience building nuclear submarines.

MDL already has its hands full with completion of 6 Scorpenes and putting Indian AIPs during mid-life upgrades. Furthermore, India is considering adding 3 more improved Scorpenes with AIPs too.

Keep pushing it hard as India badly needs at least 24 modern SSKs to thwart the designs of two enemies.

 

[Aravind Raveendran]

We should have started working on 3 more scorpenes with AIP as soon as the earlier order ended and if we don't have the capability to imbibe anything from TOT then better make a cheaper deal for a customised sub .

 

[பாலா குப்புசாமி]

It's wastage of time & resources, Indian Navy should've considered to invest in:-

1. Additional 3 to 6 Kalvari-SSKs with DRDO's AIP system
2. At least 12 Super-Kalvari SSKs with DRDO's AIP system

This could've allowed Indian shipbuilding industry to have work for almost a decade & for Indian-Navy to get SSKs at a cheaper rate due to Economy of Scales.

Save money on SSKs & invest in SSNs.

We need 24 ssk. So 9 kalvari +9 super kalvari+ 6 212/214