India Eyes Advanced German Submarines: Focus on Stealth and Air-Independent Propulsion

An Indian Navy delegation is embarking on a visit to ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS) facilities in Germany.

Their mission? A close inspection of the advanced U-212/214 submarines offered as part of India's ambitious Project-75I, a tender designed to significantly modernize the nation's underwater combat capabilities.

Project 75I: A Critical Investment​

Project-75I is a cornerstone of India's naval modernization plans. It aims to acquire six next-generation, conventionally powered submarines equipped with cutting-edge technologies.

These submarines are crucial for safeguarding India's vast maritime interests and maintaining strategic leverage in the Indian Ocean region.

The U-212/214 Advantage​

The German-designed U-212/214 class submarines stand out due to their unique design. Their 'one-and-a-half' hull configuration and non-magnetic steel pressure hull grant them exceptional stealth capabilities, making them challenging to detect.

However, the key advantage lies in their Air-Independent Propulsion (AIP) system. AIP technology allows submarines to operate submerged for extended periods without surfacing to recharge batteries. This significantly reduces vulnerability and dramatically expands the submarines' operational reach.

Partnership and Technology Transfer​

TKMS's bid for Project-75I includes a collaboration with India's Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Limited (MDL). This aligns with India's ambition to develop a robust indigenous shipbuilding industry through technology transfers.

If successful, this partnership could give India the knowledge and capabilities for future submarine construction and maintenance.

A Strategic Assessment​

The Indian Navy's inspection signifies a vital step in Project-75I. If the U-212/214 submarines impress, further negotiations could commence, potentially culminating in their acquisition.

The addition of these stealthy, long-endurance submarines would represent a major leap forward for India's maritime defense posture.

The Future of India's Underwater Strength​

The outcome of Project-75I will have far-reaching implications for the balance of power in the Indian Ocean.

The Indian Navy's expanding capabilities are essential to maintaining regional stability and protecting India's economic and strategic interests at sea.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

So, basically all knowledge gained from assembling Scorpene submarines will go down the drain. Our desi shipyards can not improvise to produce a platform they have been assembling for 20 years.

At this stage, I believe bidding should remove any ToT clause and instead focus on getting the cheapest deal.

Either way, our DPSUs don't benefit from ToT. Its like teaching intricacies of Artificial intelligence to Rahul Baba.

Dude, navy already had planned out the procurement many years before hand. It was already agreed that Project 75 will be followed by project 75I. Our desi shipyards will build in S5 and 75 alpha projects.

75I always involved foreign subs. Also, 75I subs are much larger and much more advanced than 75 subs. These german subs are the best diesel electric subs right now. Cant expect MDL to go straight to designing and buildimg cutting edge subs after assembling 6 small subs with older tech.

Submarines require immense amount of R&D.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

The german Subs are more capable than spanish subs. But spanish seem more forthcoming and enthusiastic.

Navy will make good choice. I trust them with procurement matters. Unlike the army.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

Well, money was paid to DCNS in the name of ToT to MDL.
If not much learning happened the fault lay with MDL.

The Koreans learned from whatever technology was transferred to them as part of KSS-II submarine project and let the technology evolve into an improved KSS-III submarine which they have been pitching in the international market.

MDL could have built an improved Kalvari class by substituting parts for which technoloy was not transferred with local alternatives. But they decided not to pursue the long-term game.

It would have taken a lot of R&D, subsystems would have to be designed, local vendores would have to be developed. This is somethimg that requires long time planning. Decade long.

Submarines are extremely tech heavy like fighter jets. They need a very large amount of R&D. And performance is paramount same as faighter jets. This is different to an AC. for AC you just need quantity. Need to build a huge flat deck which can float.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

Will Germany share the magnetic hull tech of U212 submarine..?
U214 is export version will lesser capability than U212.

I think so. Indian navy will insist. And India is willing to pay for it.

 

[raju]

The german Subs are more capable than spanish subs. But spanish seem more forthcoming and enthusiastic.

Navy will make good choice. I trust them with procurement matters. Unlike the army.

This same Indian Navy Choose TYPE 209 instead of Kokums (SWEDEN)Sub! In 1980s the Kokums Submarine is the best in the world.

 

[Rajesh]

Either one of the Spanish or German will be selected and God knows what is all this 💯 tech transfer. The main point of this deal is l&t and mdl. If Germany wins and mdl makes their boat then after 75(I) we will again repeat the cycle of new sub with tech transfer same like 75 ,but if sapin wins and l&t makes their boat then there is a chance we might not need to repeat the begging cycle. Even if l& t is not successful one thing is sure that we will get the boats before the timeline.HOPE 75(I) offer with maximum tech( which we r yet to develop) wins the contract.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

This same Indian Navy Choose TYPE 209 instead of Kokums (SWEDEN)Sub! In 1980s the Kokums Submarine is the best in the world.

Dude, indian navy has different requirements than sweden. Also, we didnt have much money in those days. Also, there was also the question of who would sell to us. Whether that country was willimg to give away its most advanced tech to a 3rd world country.

We were friends with soviet union, and sweden was under threat of soviets.

There are a lot more factors than just capability and performance

 

[raju]

I think the Korean KSS-III is the best Choice, because there is VLS system, Lithium Iron Batteries. And Koreans building ships much faster then other nations. Mind you Germany not reliable as France.

 

[Sandeep]

It seems like the navy has finalised and picked the submarine of its choice right from the start. The long delay has mostly been Germany's fault because of its severe restrictions and long negotiations with the amount and type of technology transfer, amount and type of local production and price. These negotiations have been taking place for around 10 years but the previous German governments and party were very unwilling to offer India any cutting edge technology or military products due to the alleged problems in Kashmir, human rights issues, media freedom issues, minority issues etc which was deliberately amplified to their media done by Pakistan, Muslim countries and large Muslim population that have taken asylum there with their protests.

Hopefully we can now sign a deal and start construction as soon as possible but to build all 6 submarines it will take at least 10-15 years to finish all 6 because of the complex technology and equipment involved along with having to teach our engineers how to build it but also having to manufacture any parts and equipment they allow us to make. The only weakness is that neither the Type 212 or 214 have a vertical launch system where we can launch larger and longer range missiles and instead we have to use the torpedo tubes which is a weakness. In this deal India has to include a provision where they allow us to install and use any indigenous torpedos or torpedo tube launched missiles whenever we develop them which is another critical necessity which should be done as soon as possible. They did develop and run a few tests which was successful but they will still need to make minor modifications, changes or fine tune it until they can be produced.

 

[Sandeep]

I think the Korean KSS-III is the best Choice, because there is VLS system, Lithium Iron Batteries. And Koreans building ships much faster then other nations. Mind you Germany not reliable as France.

South Korea withdrew their offer and is out of the competition

 

[Sandeep]

It's wastage of time & resources, Indian Navy should've considered to invest in:-

1. Additional 3 to 6 Kalvari-SSKs with DRDO's AIP system
2. At least 12 Super-Kalvari SSKs with DRDO's AIP system

This could've allowed Indian shipbuilding industry to have work for almost a decade & for Indian-Navy to get SSKs at a cheaper rate due to Economy of Scales.

Save money on SSKs & invest in SSNs.

France or India didn't offer to develop a super Kalvari submarine made longer and install a VLS. To develop that it would cost billions more because France would have to almost like build a new submarine, make major modifications to the technology, parts, components, equipment, install the indigenous AIP but then they would have to run a lot of tests just to certify it so installing a VLS would take a long time and cost billions. It would be much cheaper, quicker and easier to just buy more original Kalvari submarine as they are because they are still better than the Russian Kilo submarines we currently use. Another issue is that our SLCM wouldn't be compatible because of the size, dimensions, software that's used on our missiles and without that the VLS it would be pointless. Another issue is that the Kalvari submarines technology was around 20+ years old already and even if they modernised or installed more indigenous parts it was outdated and the navy needed a much more modern and lethal submarine but the Kalvari wouldn't be able to match the latest submarine technology.

 

[Benith Israel]

Free overseas tour to france, Germany and espsniola. For great deals contact Indian Navy

 

[The_rED_dEVIL]

The german Subs are more capable than spanish subs. But spanish seem more forthcoming and enthusiastic.

Navy will make good choice. I trust them with procurement matters. Unlike the army.

The problem is MDL. They say the follow up order for 3 Kalvari class submarine, if ordered in 2024 will take upto 2031 to complete... so when will they start 6 P75I and 12 P76?

What I think is, this order (P75I) should have gone to L&T irrespective of German or Spanish design, Kalvari follow on order to MDL and P76 should be a split order to MDL and L&T in 1:1 ratio.

 

[beencensured]

This same Indian Navy Choose TYPE 209 instead of Kokums (SWEDEN)Sub! In 1980s the Kokums Submarine is the best in the world.

Sterling AIP is not best for tropical waters with less temperature gradients as sterling aip work better in cold and temperate climates.

 

[Tls Mani]

Germany is unreliable partner. They have fake & funny rules & assumptions. They are the ones who have helped China to a position of bullying the world with no regard to transparency or civilian concerns etc while they talk of human rights abuse etc which is not dven skindeep

 

[Tls Mani]

1980 orders were scams due to the political set up at that time. CommissionMoney was the criteria & not equipment or country of origin

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

The problem is MDL. They say the follow up order for 3 Kalvari class submarine, if ordered in 2024 will take upto 2031 to complete... so when will they start 6 P75I and 12 P76?

What I think is, this order (P75I) should have gone to L&T irrespective of German or Spanish design, Kalvari follow on order to MDL and P76 should be a split order to MDL and L&T in 1:1 ratio.

I agree with you on kalvari follow on order and order split for P76, but for P75I, we cant have just 1 bidder on L&T. it would lead to single vendor situation which is very undesirable, as competition wont be there. I believe that MDL can work simultaneously, after all, the previous kalvari class subs also go for maintenance, and overhauls, and these shipbuilders have multiple docks. P75I will take few years to get going.

 

[Aayush Pratap]

Any business with Germany must be done with ironclad agreements. They're more flaky than my ex.

 

[Sudha]

I agree with you on kalvari follow on order and order split for P76, but for P75I, we cant have just 1 bidder on L&T. it would lead to single vendor situation which is very undesirable, as competition wont be there. I believe that MDL can work simultaneously, after all, the previous kalvari class subs also go for maintenance, and overhauls, and these shipbuilders have multiple docks. P75I will take few years to get going.

If it goes to MDL do not complain when there is increase in taxes since there will be 100% cost escalation due to very very late delivery by MDL.

 

[Sudha]

Sterling AIP is not best for tropical waters with less temperature gradients as sterling aip work better in cold and temperate climates.

Think you are having severe hallucinations. You aren't even an engineer, from where do you pick these fairy tales?