India Eyes Advanced German Submarines: Focus on Stealth and Air-Independent Propulsion

An Indian Navy delegation is embarking on a visit to ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS) facilities in Germany.

Their mission? A close inspection of the advanced U-212/214 submarines offered as part of India's ambitious Project-75I, a tender designed to significantly modernize the nation's underwater combat capabilities.

Project 75I: A Critical Investment​

Project-75I is a cornerstone of India's naval modernization plans. It aims to acquire six next-generation, conventionally powered submarines equipped with cutting-edge technologies.

These submarines are crucial for safeguarding India's vast maritime interests and maintaining strategic leverage in the Indian Ocean region.

The U-212/214 Advantage​

The German-designed U-212/214 class submarines stand out due to their unique design. Their 'one-and-a-half' hull configuration and non-magnetic steel pressure hull grant them exceptional stealth capabilities, making them challenging to detect.

However, the key advantage lies in their Air-Independent Propulsion (AIP) system. AIP technology allows submarines to operate submerged for extended periods without surfacing to recharge batteries. This significantly reduces vulnerability and dramatically expands the submarines' operational reach.

Partnership and Technology Transfer​

TKMS's bid for Project-75I includes a collaboration with India's Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Limited (MDL). This aligns with India's ambition to develop a robust indigenous shipbuilding industry through technology transfers.

If successful, this partnership could give India the knowledge and capabilities for future submarine construction and maintenance.

A Strategic Assessment​

The Indian Navy's inspection signifies a vital step in Project-75I. If the U-212/214 submarines impress, further negotiations could commence, potentially culminating in their acquisition.

The addition of these stealthy, long-endurance submarines would represent a major leap forward for India's maritime defense posture.

The Future of India's Underwater Strength​

The outcome of Project-75I will have far-reaching implications for the balance of power in the Indian Ocean.

The Indian Navy's expanding capabilities are essential to maintaining regional stability and protecting India's economic and strategic interests at sea.

 

[Varaaah]

Only when the child kidnapping government of Germany returns the Indian child back. Else, germans can go to narak.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

You are wrong. Project P75I was supposed to be indigenously build & priority was supposed to be given to private sector. Since MDL failed to absorb the tech in scorpene project ultimately GOI had to go for foreign subs. The GOI is repeating the same mistakes as in scorpene by involving MDL in P75I. Another round of delay, cost escalation & MDL cannot even deliver these even after 2 decades.

go read about project 75I. Foreign OEM was always going to be involved, and nowhere it is written that the shipyard must be private. Most of India's naval ships are built at PSU shipyards. Dont compare PSU shipyards to OFB or HAL, they have very good record.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

If it goes to MDL do not complain when there is increase in taxes since there will be 100% cost escalation due to very very late delivery by MDL.

in modern times (after 2014) contracts are signed before hand, and timelines are fixed. If timelines are not followed, then additional costs are borne by manufacturer.

 

[Pink Panther]

Oh, and the INS Drakon is not a modified Type 212 submarine. It is a heavily enlarged and modified Type 209 submarine. The Batch 2 Dolphin-class do have some technologies from the Type 212, however.

Type-212 underlying design is based on Type-209, but Germans are already making even more enlarged Submarines for Submarines called Dakar Class for Israel that will eventually replace Dolphin Class Submarines, this is based on German Type-216 concept, we should probably get these if we select German Submarine.

 

[charminar_waale_ismail_bhai]

Foreign OEM was always going to be involved

If Foreign OEM were to be kept involved, what was the point of TOT? ToT doesn't come free. Vendors charge additional for ToT clause in a contract.

Dont compare PSU shipyards to OFB or HAL, they have very good record.

Sishumar Class Submarines cough!!! cough!!!
Mid life upgrade cough!!! cough!!!
INS Vikrant delay!!! cough!!! cough!!!

 

[charminar_waale_ismail_bhai]

The 1999 plan called for 18 SSKs and 6 SSNs. This would be made up by 6 Project 75 boats, 6 Project 75I boats, 6 Project 76 boats, and 6 Project 75A boats (the latter being SSNs).

The Navy today is targeting some 24-27 SSKs, which would be made of 9 Kalvaris, 6 Project 75Is, and 9-12 Project 76 boats. SSNs are planned as is.

Where is Project-76 now?
Bahot dinon sei koi eyeing, plans-to, hopes-to, looking-at wali news nahin aa rahi.

 

[Mithu Roy]

Why waste money on importing.start designing our own.slowly will do the catching up.take foreign help in consultation

 

[charminar_waale_ismail_bhai]

Whether that country was willimg to give away its most advanced tech to a 3rd world country.

And what great have we achieved with that advanced technology transferred to us?

Most technicians who were imparted the training for advanced hull welding techniques, ended up with jobs in the Gulf where this technique was in high demand for transport of gas and oil in tankers.

 

[Deepak Hegde]

It's wastage of time & resources, Indian Navy should've considered to invest in:-

1. Additional 3 to 6 Kalvari-SSKs with DRDO's AIP system
2. At least 12 Super-Kalvari SSKs with DRDO's AIP system

This could've allowed Indian shipbuilding industry to have work for almost a decade & for Indian-Navy to get SSKs at a cheaper rate due to Economy of Scales.

Save money on SSKs & invest in SSNs.

If they had this much brains, what else was needed ??

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

And what great have we achieved with that advanced technology transferred to us?

Most technicians who were imparted the training for advanced hull welding techniques, ended up with jobs in the Gulf where this technique was in high demand for transport of gas and oil in tankers.

Who cares if they went away. Great rhing about techniqes is that it is very easy to spread them. We have the technique, we just train new guys. Need just 1 trained guy to demonstrate, videos etc can do the rest

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

If Foreign OEM were to be kept involved, what was the point of TOT? ToT doesn't come free. Vendors charge additional for ToT clause in a contract.

First time is a pain for everyone. Private public both. There are well documented reason for all that you mentioned.

 

[charminar_waale_ismail_bhai]

Need just 1 trained guy to demonstrate, videos etc can do the rest

The government took so much time to make up its mind, there were none left when it was time to add two more sishumar class sub in late 1980s. The project was then nicley brushed away as closed due to financial woes.

PSU employees dont have the same incentive to LEARN or TRAIN as those in the Capitalist world have. So principles of spreading the knowledge doesn't often work the way it should.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

The government took so much time to make up its mind, there were none left when it was time to add two more sishumar class sub in late 1980s. The project was then nicley brushed away as closed due to financial woes.

PSU employees dont have the same incentive to LEARN or TRAIN as those in the Capitalist world have. So principles of spreading the knowledge doesn't often work the way it should.

things have changed a lot since them. Today HAL or other DPSU factories and assembly lines are state of the art. They are paid pretty well as well.

 

[Gobbra]

Can India really trust the Germans? They are whimsical and unreliable when it comes to military and defense tech.

 

[RG]

While Germany may be best in Subs tech, there are few issues, currently holding on Diesel shows lack of political will, lack of production capacity, incapability to meet timely demands. Also there partnership with MDL is not good for India in the long run, the capability acquired by MDL goes waste time and again due to Public sector nature. India needs to handover 75i to private sector, they can keep and use the tech to advance and develop future domestic capability. MDL can improve on the scorpene class and develop better version. For this same reason I would lean towards S-80 plus. Further, S-80 is a larger design already built and launced , not sure HDW has a working enlarged U-212/U-214, Indian version may just be a concept for now.

 

[charminar_waale_ismail_bhai]

things have changed a lot since them. Today HAL or other DPSU factories and assembly lines are state of the art. They are paid pretty well as well.

It was never about salary. It was always about commitment and responsibility.

How many PSU employees do you know in the recent past who have had to lose their work on account of project failure or mismanagement?

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

It was never about salary. It was always about commitment and responsibility.

How many PSU employees do you know in the recent past who have had to lose their work on account of project failure or mismanagement?

what you are saying is true for private sector as well. Look in america, they have project failures all the time, yet it is the govt that loses money, they private companies just go on, I have never heard of layoffs, in american shipyards when the littoral combat ship project failed, or the zumwalt class destroyer contract got slashed.

 

[NSR]

Make up your mind: Germany and the Type 212/214 boats built at MDL or Spain and the S80 Plus boats built at L&T? Both TKMS and Navantia have already put contracts in place with the respective shipyards, and switches would be exceptionally difficult and time-consuming to bring about.

It is a no brainer at all.

MDL executed Scorpene contract atrociously poor way.
MDL has not learnt anything to localize by 6th Scorpene.
Now MDL are going to work on 3 more new Scopenes with Indian AIP.
MDL also remanufacture all 6 Scorpenes during mid life refit to install AIP.
So it already has too much work and too little to show up.

On the other hand, L&T helped India build 2 SSBNs Arihant and Arghat, and third one is on way soon and is named Arighamman.
During this time L&T built up mostly indigenous technologies or Russian technology to test and integrate to make them work.
So with 3 SSBNs under its belt, I think L&T will do good job with S-80 or HDW-212/214 submarines and sub assembly localizations.

But submarine tender processes are extremely complicated and anyone can drop out and make it a single vendor and mess up the whole process.

 

[Sunnyj]

Get more of these instead of carriers.