Kaveri Engine: Latest Developments & Discussion

[Blademaster]

What nonsense! The Kaan's engine is the F110, the same base model as that used in the F-16. From memory, the two engines on the Kaan have a combined wet thrust of over 250 kN. Even with the planned new engine we have, two engines would give some 230-ish kN.

but the thrust to weight ratio is less than the GE-414 or the proposed Kaveri engine.

 

[Jaydeep Gupta]

In a major boost for India's self-reliance in defence technology, the DRDO has achieved a substantial weight reduction in the Kaveri derivative jet engine.

The current combined weight of the engine and afterburner stands at approximately 1180 kg, down from 1235 kg and considerably less than the initial prototypes which weighed over 1400 kg. This remarkable reduction can be attributed to several key factors:

• New Fan Module: A newly developed, lighter, and more efficient fan module has significantly contributed to the overall weight savings.
• Core Changes: Extensive modifications and optimizations in the engine core have addressed previously over-engineered sections, resulting in further weight reduction and potential performance enhancements.
• Afterburner Module: The afterburner section has also undergone substantial weight reduction, shedding 70-90 kg while maintaining its functionality and efficiency.
• Material Validation: The use of newer, lighter materials, rigorously tested and validated, has been instrumental in achieving the desired weight reduction.

The DRDO aims to further reduce the weight of the Kaveri derivative engine, without the afterburner, to under 1 ton. Once all new components have been thoroughly tested and integrated, the final weight will be determined.

The next crucial step involves integrating the engine with the LCA Tejas fighter aircraft for comprehensive testing. This phase will validate the engine's performance, reliability, and suitability for real-world combat scenarios.

The successful development of a lightweight, high-performance indigenous jet engine is a significant step towards India's self-reliance in defense technology. The Kaveri engine's reduced weight will enhance the LCA Tejas's overall performance, maneuverability, and range, making it a more formidable combat aircraft.

 

[sanket]

Great News. weight reduction & Thrust enhancement will make Tejas MK1A poweing Indigenous Jet Engine

 

[shivkumar sinha]

Well done DRDO. Development of Kaveri engine in parallel with new AMCA engine with foreign collaboration is necessary .More funding and political push should be provided to kaveri project .

 

[Pramkumar]

From 1400 to 1180 is good development
IAF should work around kaveri engine other wise we will hear the stories of HF marut only

 

[Vineet Sharma]

Weight reduction.. This means everything with this engine is going fine and people involved in engine design are understanding the principles behind the machines.. Great work.. Hope to see a new engine soon with another thrust class.. May be of 110KN

 

[bonito]

Dissociate Ghatak from Kaveri engine. China is preparing for war. We cannot afford to lose focus on Ghatak for the sake of Kaveri engine.

 

[Ranjeet Singh]

Ink deal with Safran to make 90-95 KN Kaveri engines for Tejas-1A, and also make Tejas-1B powered by Kaveri (95KN ) engine and air frame like Mirage-2000-9 can attain Mac 2.25 speed !

 

[NSR]

"Next critical step will be the integration of the Kaveri Derivative Engine into LCA Tejas for testing purposes"

Holy dear God, no, next step will be using Russian or may be French high altitude test bed to test extensively for all performance parameters in at all elevations, etc
Only when it meets the vibration, performance, start on and turn off at all altitudes, quality of components, reliability of components, etc then GTRE can put it in a real LCA/Tejas fighter and test it with a real pilot.
Not even a second before those things are tested completely.

India must remember that a fighter test pilot life is not CHEAP one to put in HARMS WAY.

 

[Pad UwU]

This would be good for drones but not for jet fighter, because it's a new engine without enough extensive flight stress especially in training, dog fighting and war😺

 

[The Presence]

Weight reduction.. This means everything with this engine is going fine and people involved in engine design are understanding the principles behind the machines.. Great work.. Hope to see a new engine soon with another thrust class.. May be of 110KN

Sadly we suck at anything related to Silicon, and it's this very element which dominates the current engine manufacturing process.

As far as I know, the Kaveri's earlier iterations were using Nickel Superalloys. Maybe we are progressing towards Silicon Carbide now, but what we need to do with 110 kN, is to take the leap of faith and go for Carbon Fibre Composites.

 

[Akshat]

Well done DRDO. Development of Kaveri engine in parallel with new AMCA engine with foreign collaboration is necessary .More funding and political push should be provided to kaveri project .

What well done? It’s just another one of their plans. Nothing actually achieved on the ground. So well done just for the thought of doing it?

 

[shivkumar sinha]

What well done? It’s just another one of their plans. Nothing actually achieved on the ground. So well done just for the thought of doing it?

U have no other option than to make your own engine . Steal , borrow or do whatever but make it work. U can't trust on French , British or anyone for that matter .

 

[kumar]

Step in the right direction. Jet engine development is done iteratively. There are no shortcuts here.
But for God's sake plz establish engine test facilities in India. We cant keep going to Russia or any other country for that matter. It will only kill valuable time. Flying Test bed and high altitude test facilities are a must.

 

[Akshat]

U have no other option than to make your own engine . Steal , borrow or do whatever but make it work. U can't trust on French , British or anyone for that matter .

Agree with that. But it’s not gonna happen with GTRE in charge

 

[AK S]

Great News. weight reduction & Thrust enhancement will make Tejas MK1A poweing Indigenous Jet Engine

LCA super expensive! Boy you must be from other planet.

 

[AK S]

Agree with that. But it’s not gonna happen with GTRE in charge

We need to develop core tech on our own. When we get close, there will interesting offers from the established players.

Let’s see. So far it’s been only GTRE and to some extent HAL and MIDHANI. Private players won’t invest or even participate in JVs where development and engineering is concerned… this is pure R&D. I don’t see it happening in another decade. They will invest once tech is matured and orders are steady and margins are healthy.

Safran wanted close to billion dollar (offsets included) just to integrate M88 core - very bad deal for us in terms of expensive royalties continued French dependence. Ask patrons to be more accommodating.

 

[Sandeep]

The Kaveri engine prototype has been developed for the stealth UCAV Ghatak drone so progress is being made on that which won’t require any foreign help. That’s a significant progress and difference as we will be able to maintain, upkeep, service, repair or overhaul it using indigenously developed parts and components.

To develop a Kaveri engine for a fighter jet it would mean they will have to increase the thrust level by a lot more than it currently can. So we have to keep working, researching and engineer an indigenous engine as there’s no alternative if we want to become self reliant.

Another key progress is that we are developing the Kaveri marine engine which is showing significant progress and results. This will allow us to power our own indigenous small to medium weight ship engines so we don’t have to rely on foreign imports.

 

[SK]

This is a good news. Investment in Indigenous technologies is a must to achieve strategic Independence.

 

[Akshat]

LCA super expensive! Boy you must be from other planet.

It is indeed. It is comparable fighters of far heavier classes. The cost paid for Mk1a is 78 million usd. For the home country!!!

For comparison, Su30 mki (2019) being manufactured by HAL for 68 million USD. F18 costs about 65 million barebones. Even your favorite Rafale was reported to cost about 69 million USD to the French Senate (2014). And the prices since 2014 have decreased for Rafale packages, if anything. So yeah, LCA is one of the costliest planes around,

 

[Akshat]

Have you checked per hour flying cost of Tejas vs F-16 vs Gripen?
There is life cycle cost to air craft. Tejas are increasingly becoming easy to maintain. Mk1A is better maintainable compared to mk 1. And Mk-2 will improve upon from mk1A.

Also, USD spent are within and with India except engine. Which is being worked !! For which you are commenting.

Well if it’s a fact then it’s a fact. Tejas is about 55% indigenous. Rest is going out of the country. In MRFA we are asking for 50% local content. Even for Rafale we had 50% offsets. So the amount of money kept in India and sent outside will be comparable.

And as for cost, Tejas is indeed one of the costliest planes around. And I am comparing with planes of far superior quality and capabilities.

As for per hour costs, are there any reliable sources which confirm this?

Being a DRDO apologist doesn’t help anyone. We should call a spade a spade and blame them for holding back our progress.

 

[Kailash]

1180 kg has been the weight of Kaveri for god know how many years. What is new in this article is only the date. If Kaveri comes to around 1000, then it will mean serious business.

 

[Vinit Kothari]

LCA super expensive! Boy you must be from other planet.

Have you checked per hour flying cost of Tejas vs F-16 vs Gripen?
There is life cycle cost to air craft. Tejas are increasingly becoming easy to maintain. Mk1A is better maintainable compared to mk 1. And Mk-2 will improve upon from mk1A.

Also, USD spent are within and with India except engine. Which is being worked !! For which you are commenting.

 

[abhinav srivastava]

Good Work. Snechma M88 with ~50 KN of Dry thrust weighs around 900KG. Still some ground to cover. We have to intensify our R&D and create Jet engine ecosystem. It won't develope only becuase of JVs. Country like China are spending 3-5 billion a year for atmanirbharta in Jet Engine tech for civilian and military use. With a meagre investment we wont be Atmanirbhar.

 

[Pink Panther]

We need to develop core tech on our own. When we get close, there will interesting offers from the established players.

Let’s see. So far it’s been only GTRE and to some extent HAL and MIDHANI. Private players won’t invest or even participate in JVs where development and engineering is concerned… this is pure R&D. I don’t see it happening in another decade. They will invest once tech is matured and orders are steady and margins are healthy.

Safran wanted close to billion dollar (offsets included) just to integrate M88 core - very bad deal for us in terms of expensive royalties continued French dependence. Ask patrons to be more accommodating.

Not close to 1Bln, they wanted $1.5Bln for using their core and then royalties on top of that, making a robust indegenous core is the only solution.