MMRCA 2.0: India's Next Fighter Jet – News and Discussion

[ABHIJIT APSINGIKAR]

Oh dear! The MOD seems to be high on drugs, if they think they can enforce such ridiculous terms. No such thing as total tech transfer in the world of defense and unless u either buy out OEM, you are not going to have total control of designs.

No OEM will part with IP on critical components design and manufacturing, as doing so jeopardizes not just future business, but also integrity and confidentiality of classified data.

 

[Naveen Bijoy]

Only LM F-21 and Boeing F/A-18 and F-15EX was willing to manufacture all of their fighters in India with an Indian partner.
Rostec and HAL tie-up was a disaster for India.

Do not hold your breath about MRFA at all.

Go full steam ahead with Tejas IA productions and Tejas Mk2 developments.
Bring in private players to put competition on HAL or else it will keep going with its lackadaisical attitudes.

No vision or planning and execution on parts of IAF, MoD, GoI, and above all HAL.

U must be joking , after seeing HAL production rate , Tejas MK 1 A is being delayed .
@16 flights production per year , when can u have the full squadron ready

 

[मित्र]

Damn! Russia should have fielded Su-57.

It seems to be a renewed tender, may require fresh bids.

 

[Naveen Bijoy]

September 2024 deadline will decide the Reliability of US ,dont trust US already 220 Tejas are dependent on US engine,another 108 Tejas MK2 Followed by TEDBF 100 Jets & 40 AMCA MK1 . All this plus add to that 114 from MRFA Almost 600 Fighter jet have to depend on US . its over dependency i again think India should go with European Fighter jet Either Rafale or Eurofighter But Rafale being Single Nation & already finding place in IN & Airforce it is ultimate choice question is will Dassault ready to manufacture in India & atleast 60 to 65% ToT.& Meteor system ToT under License production to India.

Dassault and French are playing dirty games.
Btw cost of Rafale is more , should go with Gripen or HAL should offload production of Tejas to some private players.

 

[Anurag]

Everyone knew that US was very unreliable. Why did HAL took a decision to use F404 engines even when they knew production of which was closing down? A pure failure on the part of HAL management. HAL's management is more responsible for this fiasco.

HAL is not responsible why always put the blame on them!! They are incompetent organization for sure and have poor work culture but still they didn't choose the Ge engines they won by L1 supplier and deal was signed through gov to gov HAL has no role in it!!

 

[Anurag]

Do not think so. It was HAL's product from day one. Why blame IAF?

I don't know why this all blame game put back between IAF and HAL??
Both serves to the MoD

 

[Anurag]

When did IAF shortlist which plane they want in MRFA to blame MOD?

When AoN is released then the process of tender will start and then the option to evaluate fighter jet by the IAF will be open how IAF can select any fighter when tender is not out their in the first place surely MoD is more responsible in jeopardize national security. Bureaucracy of these babus are just so poor!!

 

[SK]

I don't understand why Indian-Govt & Military thinks that any sensible Nation will share their Strategic Military technology with another Non-allied Nation?

 

[Rudra]

Good! Now we should have the planes by the year 2100.

 

[Arz786]

1) No aircraft OEM makes the entire aircraft. For example, Boeing or Lockheed does not make engines, avionics, landing gear etc. If India is looking for a comprehensive aircraft manufacturing footprint with all systems, sub-systems included, it should ask for consortiums to bid.
2) Since such consortium formation in private sector is difficult, it will be have to be implemented through a Govt to Govt deal. The foreign government should have enough influence over its industries to make them form consortiums to set up such manufacturing footprint in India. France can ask Dassault+ Thales+ MBDA to form such consortium (Rafale), USA can ask Boeing/ Lockheed+ GE/ Pratt & Whitney+ Northrop Grumman+ Raytheon/ Collins to form such consortium ( F-15) etc.
3) This will increase cost and price of the aircraft significantly ( read 2x) because manufacturing footprints will be set up without economy of scale.
4) Therefore, the GOI may ask for final assembly of the aircrafts in India with certain key technologies Indianized. That formulation ( list of technologies that it would ask for indigenization) is to be seen.

 

[Akshat]

IAF wanted US Engine,Second it was cheaper than other Engines.One thing India is Experincing is Whether it is Offset clause or Defence/Weapon supply deal Foreign companies Just want to win the contract and do Dily-dally Once they win they make Dance us on there Finger Atmanirbhar is the only way

That’s wrong. IAF and MoD wanted Kaveri to go on LCA. It was ADA which chose F404 when they were making prototypes. And when Kaveri tanked, they decided to keep it.

 

[Akshat]

Dassault and French are playing dirty games.
Btw cost of Rafale is more , should go with Gripen or HAL should offload production of Tejas to some private players.

Gripen failed the trials. As for cost, Rafale has been chosen as L1 every single time by India so they are the cheapest. No dirty gaming by them.

 

[Akshat]

One thing is for sure, MRFA deal is not going to happen in the near future.

Don’t be so sure. The is a lot of activity in recent weeks in this front. You may see some movement this year

 

[Akshat]

When did IAF shortlist which plane they want in MRFA to blame MOD?

First they need AoN from DAC to issue the RFP.

 

[Akshat]

Many few can remember what has happen to tender , After 2016 36 Rafale deal , IAF pushed for single Engine Fighter jet Tender Then after waster valueable time they started MRFA Process with inclusion of Twin Engine Figter jet & allowing Su-35 to take part in the MRFA.IAF itself not knowing what is there Requirement is Only Two have shown interest in Single Engine tender Gripen & F-16,

Nopes. It was the genius Parrikar ji who floated this idea. It was a waste of time and wasted precious years for IAF.

 

[Akshat]

Brother, abhi tender hi release nehi hua.. MOD ko knock baad main karna

Tender will be released once DAC gives AoN.

 

[Akshat]

It seems to be a renewed tender, may require fresh bids.

Nopes. Thus is just a rehash of old news. This was always required. Remember Su30mki? Officially it is locally manufactured 100%. But we all know the truth. When they say locally made, it just means locally assembled from the sub assembly stage.

And anyways. No tender had anyways been issued. Mod is yet to grant AoN.

 

[Akshat]

Forget Rafales then you will only get old tech. Probably some American junk.

France is the only one who can clear the trials and do this.

 

[wallisk]

First it was one lost soul IAF ACM that demanded 5th gen. tech's and that MRFA jets must be upgradeable to full 5th gen., and that all DRDO developed 5th gen. tech's must be compatible to MRFA jets [utter nonsensical imbecile requests]. Now, GoI wanting 100% ToT's and 100% manufacturing in India! IAF will be very FUCQKED in a few years when fleet strength falls to below 30 squadrons. And PAF is the 4th technically strongest and largest AF in the whole world; will be at 38 squadrons with majority 4.5 gen. fighter jets...

 

[Akshat]

Oh dear! The MOD seems to be high on drugs, if they think they can enforce such ridiculous terms. No such thing as total tech transfer in the world of defense and unless u either buy out OEM, you are not going to have total control of designs.

No OEM will part with IP on critical components design and manufacturing, as doing so jeopardizes not just future business, but also integrity and confidentiality of classified data.

There are no such terms bro. Chillax. Even Su30 mki is 100% locally manufactured as per official statements but we all know the truth. They are not saying all the components have to be manufactured locally. These are just some random articles. Most likely someone gave a snippet to media and they came up with their own interpretation.

 

[Akshat]

1) No aircraft OEM makes the entire aircraft. For example, Boeing or Lockheed does not make engines, avionics, landing gear etc. If India is looking for a comprehensive aircraft manufacturing footprint with all systems, sub-systems included, it should ask for consortiums to bid.

India already does that. MBDA and Safran were tier 1 vendors during the Rafale deal (I think Thales too), apart from Dassault. They were individually responsible for their offset obligations and other penalties.

 

[Sandeep]

This deal makes sense. India needs the jets capability much more than owning any IPR. Nobody will give 100% of the technology and getting piecemeal technology of some minor parts that’s not critical is pointless.

It’s better that the entire jet is made 100% of it in India and with 100% of Indian raw materials and content. It’s best that the manufacturer that wins should open up several production lines here and use Indian workers and Indian content from the defence industry who can provide whatever parts are available or need to be made. This is the only way that India will receive some success in the MRFA.

However it’s highly doubtful that India will ever start the MRFA. The key is to focus on manufacturing more Tejas MK1A jets on time, quickly develop the Tejas MK 2 jet and get production started along with the AMCA jet which are the most important jets. At the same time they should upgrade the current jets that we have with the Super Sukhoi program, Mig 29 and Mirage 2000. At the same time we can either make more Mig 29 and Sukhoi jets along with buying more used Mirage jets which are still capable of flying and the technology is modern which have similar capabilities to our jets.

 

[Agnelo Dcosta]

This approach is long overdue. Lame excuses like squadron depletion should not be linked to this approach.

 

[RalphRearden]

De facto shortlisting the 3: F-21/ Rafale/Russian

Boeing wont get any approvals to shift entire F-15EX or even F-18. Americans will hand over F-21 production lines that IAF will junk. Grippen is no go due to Mk2
Leaves Su-57 and Rafale to be realistic...wait and watch...this basically is India, for the first time, arm twisting the vendors instead of getting arm twisted by them. I also think this is India telling France...enough of BS..handover produciton or we are byung Su-57

 

[crusoe rob]

This will prevent Western GOVTS from fooling India anymore, they are least interested in any tech transfer, only want to waste India's time leaving it defenseless. India should pursue its old partner Russia and dump the west.

India must not waste time getting into any engine tech manufacturing with any western power, it will not succeed. Spend money on indigenous development with private parties. Buy russian SU57 in the meantime. Please wake up? Don't get fooled, any engineer will tell you this. Politicians are novices when it doesn't come to making illegal money?

Dump the idea of fighters that cannot be seen by radar. It's a waste of time. All planes can be seen by modern radars. Even Indian ones.