MMRCA 2.0: India's Next Fighter Jet – News and Discussion

[Akshat]

IAF wanted US Engine,Second it was cheaper than other Engines.One thing India is Experincing is Whether it is Offset clause or Defence/Weapon supply deal Foreign companies Just want to win the contract and do Dily-dally Once they win they make Dance us on there Finger Atmanirbhar is the only way

That’s wrong. IAF and MoD wanted Kaveri to go on LCA. It was ADA which chose F404 when they were making prototypes. And when Kaveri tanked, they decided to keep it.

 

[Akshat]

Dassault and French are playing dirty games.
Btw cost of Rafale is more , should go with Gripen or HAL should offload production of Tejas to some private players.

Gripen failed the trials. As for cost, Rafale has been chosen as L1 every single time by India so they are the cheapest. No dirty gaming by them.

 

[Akshat]

One thing is for sure, MRFA deal is not going to happen in the near future.

Don’t be so sure. The is a lot of activity in recent weeks in this front. You may see some movement this year

 

[Akshat]

When did IAF shortlist which plane they want in MRFA to blame MOD?

First they need AoN from DAC to issue the RFP.

 

[Akshat]

Many few can remember what has happen to tender , After 2016 36 Rafale deal , IAF pushed for single Engine Fighter jet Tender Then after waster valueable time they started MRFA Process with inclusion of Twin Engine Figter jet & allowing Su-35 to take part in the MRFA.IAF itself not knowing what is there Requirement is Only Two have shown interest in Single Engine tender Gripen & F-16,

Nopes. It was the genius Parrikar ji who floated this idea. It was a waste of time and wasted precious years for IAF.

 

[Akshat]

Brother, abhi tender hi release nehi hua.. MOD ko knock baad main karna

Tender will be released once DAC gives AoN.

 

[Akshat]

It seems to be a renewed tender, may require fresh bids.

Nopes. Thus is just a rehash of old news. This was always required. Remember Su30mki? Officially it is locally manufactured 100%. But we all know the truth. When they say locally made, it just means locally assembled from the sub assembly stage.

And anyways. No tender had anyways been issued. Mod is yet to grant AoN.

 

[Akshat]

Forget Rafales then you will only get old tech. Probably some American junk.

France is the only one who can clear the trials and do this.

 

[wallisk]

First it was one lost soul IAF ACM that demanded 5th gen. tech's and that MRFA jets must be upgradeable to full 5th gen., and that all DRDO developed 5th gen. tech's must be compatible to MRFA jets [utter nonsensical imbecile requests]. Now, GoI wanting 100% ToT's and 100% manufacturing in India! IAF will be very FUCQKED in a few years when fleet strength falls to below 30 squadrons. And PAF is the 4th technically strongest and largest AF in the whole world; will be at 38 squadrons with majority 4.5 gen. fighter jets...

 

[Akshat]

Oh dear! The MOD seems to be high on drugs, if they think they can enforce such ridiculous terms. No such thing as total tech transfer in the world of defense and unless u either buy out OEM, you are not going to have total control of designs.

No OEM will part with IP on critical components design and manufacturing, as doing so jeopardizes not just future business, but also integrity and confidentiality of classified data.

There are no such terms bro. Chillax. Even Su30 mki is 100% locally manufactured as per official statements but we all know the truth. They are not saying all the components have to be manufactured locally. These are just some random articles. Most likely someone gave a snippet to media and they came up with their own interpretation.

 

[Akshat]

1) No aircraft OEM makes the entire aircraft. For example, Boeing or Lockheed does not make engines, avionics, landing gear etc. If India is looking for a comprehensive aircraft manufacturing footprint with all systems, sub-systems included, it should ask for consortiums to bid.

India already does that. MBDA and Safran were tier 1 vendors during the Rafale deal (I think Thales too), apart from Dassault. They were individually responsible for their offset obligations and other penalties.

 

[Sandeep]

This deal makes sense. India needs the jets capability much more than owning any IPR. Nobody will give 100% of the technology and getting piecemeal technology of some minor parts that’s not critical is pointless.

It’s better that the entire jet is made 100% of it in India and with 100% of Indian raw materials and content. It’s best that the manufacturer that wins should open up several production lines here and use Indian workers and Indian content from the defence industry who can provide whatever parts are available or need to be made. This is the only way that India will receive some success in the MRFA.

However it’s highly doubtful that India will ever start the MRFA. The key is to focus on manufacturing more Tejas MK1A jets on time, quickly develop the Tejas MK 2 jet and get production started along with the AMCA jet which are the most important jets. At the same time they should upgrade the current jets that we have with the Super Sukhoi program, Mig 29 and Mirage 2000. At the same time we can either make more Mig 29 and Sukhoi jets along with buying more used Mirage jets which are still capable of flying and the technology is modern which have similar capabilities to our jets.

 

[Agnelo Dcosta]

This approach is long overdue. Lame excuses like squadron depletion should not be linked to this approach.

 

[RalphRearden]

De facto shortlisting the 3: F-21/ Rafale/Russian

Boeing wont get any approvals to shift entire F-15EX or even F-18. Americans will hand over F-21 production lines that IAF will junk. Grippen is no go due to Mk2
Leaves Su-57 and Rafale to be realistic...wait and watch...this basically is India, for the first time, arm twisting the vendors instead of getting arm twisted by them. I also think this is India telling France...enough of BS..handover produciton or we are byung Su-57

 

[crusoe rob]

This will prevent Western GOVTS from fooling India anymore, they are least interested in any tech transfer, only want to waste India's time leaving it defenseless. India should pursue its old partner Russia and dump the west.

India must not waste time getting into any engine tech manufacturing with any western power, it will not succeed. Spend money on indigenous development with private parties. Buy russian SU57 in the meantime. Please wake up? Don't get fooled, any engineer will tell you this. Politicians are novices when it doesn't come to making illegal money?

Dump the idea of fighters that cannot be seen by radar. It's a waste of time. All planes can be seen by modern radars. Even Indian ones.

 

[Pink Panther]

i always said every Nut/bolt ready to manufacture company will win MRFA ,But after GE-404 Engine delay drama India should b careful & should not over depend on US.India think two front war if supply chain is not good how to fought war.Not only Fighter jet under MRFA should b manufacture in India But opportunity exist in Exporting this jets to Freindly nation too. India needs Complete Eco-system of Fighter jet & Engine used in that Jet to b manufactured in India.Even some weapons too should b manufactured under License.

In Article F-15Ex & Su-35 is missing whether or not win is next Thing But they 2 are also contenders of MRFA .

Good lessons learned for taunting every MRFA related article with Rafale picture , so it is almost 100% certain that Rafale lost the Race and so as Gripen and any US jets, there is a slight chance for EF Typhoon along with EJ200 Deal, but will they do it against their big brothers ,so the only option is from a old friend, either SU-57 or SU-75 in the form of FGFA to mask the transaction.

 

[Intelliegent Indian]

Bringing 36 Rafales at such huge price will go for waste if they don't produce Engines and parts in India. This MRFA coupled with Marine jets should be made in India. India should plan to hold atleast 100 fighter jets of same type. India GOVT should put pressure on Rafale to manfacture and assemble in India. I think Eurofighter typhoon, Boeing F15EX and Rafale can only face Chinese stealth jets.

 

[Rokuth]

Um, the Gripen is powered by a F404 derivative.

If it is the Gripen E version, it is powered by a Swedish licensed built version of the F-414. The earlier, and smaller Gripen A, B, C, and D versions are powered by a Swedish licensed built version of the F-404. Plus Saab has experience with what the Indian Government wants. They have a similar contract with Brazil for the Gripen E, and Brazilian only 2 seater Gripen F.

 

[DNA57]

I don't understand why Indian-Govt & Military thinks that any sensible Nation will share their Strategic Military technology with another Non-allied Nation?

So, they will not share their tech.....well and good. Now, they will not be able to have us in limbo and we will save a huge amount, about 23 billion. Simply.

 

[Naveen Bijoy]

Gripen failed the trials. As for cost, Rafale has been chosen as L1 every single time by India so they are the cheapest. No dirty gaming by them.

They are not ready for technology transfer now. Btw their have more 200+ in order books. Monthly production rate is 3 per month.

 

[Akshat]

They are not ready for technology transfer now. Btw their have more 200+ in order books. Monthly production rate is 3 per month.

Monthly production rate is 2 per month for now. They plan to raise it to 3 by the end of this year.That means all of them can be delivered in about 7-8 years. And their CEO has said that if new orders come, they can raise it to even 4 per month. So there is enough room for new orders.

As for whether they are ready or not, I am sure you have an official source saying they refused, right? Please share it with us as well.

 

[desigandu]

Good thinking, but this does not solve our short term needs. Given the issues with GE F404 engines even Mk1As are delayed - big problem.

 

[beencensured]

Oh dear! The MOD seems to be high on drugs, if they think they can enforce such ridiculous terms. No such thing as total tech transfer in the world of defense and unless u either buy out OEM, you are not going to have total control of designs.

No OEM will part with IP on critical components design and manufacturing, as doing so jeopardizes not just future business, but also integrity and confidentiality of classified data.

Everyone is not slave to Western junk.

 

[wallisk]

De facto shortlisting the 3: F-21/ Rafale/Russian

Boeing wont get any approvals to shift entire F-15EX or even F-18. Americans will hand over F-21 production lines that IAF will junk. Grippen is no go due to Mk2
Leaves Su-57 and Rafale to be realistic...wait and watch...this basically is India, for the first time, arm twisting the vendors instead of getting arm twisted by them. I also think this is India telling France...enough of BS..handover produciton or we are byung Su-57

ONLY if IAF shortlists F21 and Gripen-E SEF jets into finalists list of- Rafale, Typhoon and F15EX, can IAF have a chance of getting lower priced jets than the Rafales of Dassault France! Also, MoD MUST allow SEF jets into MRFA tender contention.

 

[wallisk]

This approach is long overdue. Lame excuses like squadron depletion should not be linked to this approach.

35 years wasted in this issueless drama starting with IAF requests to make in India by HAL 126 nos. of Mirage2000's - wayyyy back in 1990 or 1995....

 

[beencensured]

Exactly. I am more concerned of what US high ranking official said last month. I remember, he said that there is no middle ground in this conflict. Ostensibly it refers to US-Russia cold war 2. US will use everything to end India's neutrality, even threat and blackmail by blocking spare parts supply. US is no stranger to it.

This was reason for Trump's assassination attempt . The Secret Service failed after having few minutes warning as the crowds in Trump rally were more alert. Even Government snippers with clear site of gunman failed. Looks like they purposely let Trump be attack, and even Biden said put a target on Trump.

 

[beencensured]

Good thinking, but this does not solve our short term needs. Given the issues with GE F404 engines even Mk1As are delayed - big problem.

Our Country never trust desi products. Put Kaveri with 73 kn afterburner, stop wasting time. The west is their to screw you only. Develop every type of engine class. Hand holding is for id10ts.

 

[beencensured]

i always said every Nut/bolt ready to manufacture company will win MRFA ,But after GE-404 Engine delay drama India should b careful & should not over depend on US.India think two front war if supply chain is not good how to fought war.Not only Fighter jet under MRFA should b manufacture in India But opportunity exist in Exporting this jets to Freindly nation too. India needs Complete Eco-system of Fighter jet & Engine used in that Jet to b manufactured in India.Even some weapons too should b manufactured under License.

In Article F-15Ex & Su-35 is missing whether or not win is next Thing But they 2 are also contenders of MRFA .

I am still wondering what technology would be gained by MRFA which all planes seem outdated.

 

[Rajesh]

1. The Indian company should be the one which comes forward to manufacture amca . simply giving it to an Indian screwdriver company will be similar to m777 project given to Mahendra (it should have been given to kalyani)
2. full tot and complete manufacturing in india .
3. indian upgrades and weapons integration through the life cycles of the jet to be done by india.
4. engine still will be a cause of concern so an amca engine type deal should be considered .( If rafale-m88-3 and typhoon-ej200 wins then those engine can also be used for mk1A)
5. 30-40 years this jet will be in our force and possibly even longer so we don't have to worry in the future esp if the OEM is from west ,hope no scope of back stabbing or political threats be given a space like the recent incidents with the f404 engines.

 

[Sudha]

I am still wondering what technology would be gained by MRFA which all planes seem outdated.

If it is so, why can't you manufacture a hitech plane & sell it to Indian military? 🤔