MMRCA 2.0: India's Next Fighter Jet – News and Discussion

[Sudha]

I don't understand why Indian-Govt & Military thinks that any sensible Nation will share their Strategic Military technology with another Non-allied Nation?

A bad weakness since independence continues.

 

[Sudha]

Bringing 36 Rafales at such huge price will go for waste if they don't produce Engines and parts in India. This MRFA coupled with Marine jets should be made in India. India should plan to hold atleast 100 fighter jets of same type. India GOVT should put pressure on Rafale to manfacture and assemble in India. I think Eurofighter typhoon, Boeing F15EX and Rafale can only face Chinese stealth jets.

Pressure doesn't work, only carrots work.

 

[Sudha]

First it was one lost soul IAF ACM that demanded 5th gen. tech's and that MRFA jets must be upgradeable to full 5th gen., and that all DRDO developed 5th gen. tech's must be compatible to MRFA jets [utter nonsensical imbecile requests]. Now, GoI wanting 100% ToT's and 100% manufacturing in India! IAF will be very FUCQKED in a few years when fleet strength falls to below 30 squadrons. And PAF is the 4th technically strongest and largest AF in the whole world; will be at 38 squadrons with majority 4.5 gen. fighter jets...

What is the name of the fiction? 4th gen to be upgraded to 5th? WOW!! Even a layman knows it is not possible. I will purchase it first when you release your book. 🤣😂

 

[Ajath Shri]

Good move. Not only the jets will be manufactured in India , also India will get a great opportunity for developing a strong eco system for aircraft and spare parts manufacturing.

 

[ABHIJIT APSINGIKAR]

Everyone is not slave to Western junk.

Big words when our own project languishes in eternal delays. I have previously mentioned, I have no issues if the domestic DPSU can deliver the project as per specifications within time frame. Unfortunately, they have proven that they cant. Over and over they continue to miss deadlines with projects languishing in perpetual delays. In such a scenario they leave us with no choice but to rely on imported defense equipment.

Unfortunately when DPSU are incapable of meeting requirements on time, they dont really have right to complain if services scout for alternatives to fill capability void as they simply cant wait for decades to see the requested platform enter prototype testing and then subsequent production. Moreover till the time they enter service, the core avionics architecture around which its designed would have become obsolete.

 

[Sanjiv Mathur]

I am still wondering what technology would be gained by MRFA which all planes seem outdated.

Outdated? They are not 5th generation but the tender is for 4.5 gen planes. In that category these are the best available options. Besides, F15Ex is spanking new. Only the airframe is the same as b4. And same with the F21. The European fighters are also contemporary, as are the Sukhoi and MiG options.

 

[beencensured]

Big words when our own project languishes in eternal delays. I have previously mentioned, I have no issues if the domestic DPSU can deliver the project as per specifications within time frame. Unfortunately, they have proven that they cant. Over and over they continue to miss deadlines with projects languishing in perpetual delays. In such a scenario they leave us with no choice but to rely on imported defense equipment.

Unfortunately when DPSU are incapable of meeting requirements on time, they dont really have right to complain if services scout for alternatives to fill capability void as they simply cant wait for decades to see the requested platform enter prototype testing and then subsequent production. Moreover till the time they enter service, the core avionics architecture around which its designed would have become obsolete.

Most delays are because west has infiltrated our procurement system with agents like yourself. They do not have same requirements of domestic. Foreign products though totally unsuitable like terrorist Canadian Stryker are not able to perform on high altitude s, but then they request them to modify engines as to suit, but better Mahindra and Tatas they cannot tell even short commings. Then you want to depend on trojan products. Americans are most untrustworthy.

 

[beencensured]

If it is so, why can't you manufacture a hitech plane & sell it to Indian military? 🤔

Okay, I propose a twin engine Tejas. It would be better the MRFA.

 

[Pad UwU]

Hmmm 🤔🧐
Would the foreign company like Boeing, Dassault, Eurofighter Consortium(BAE systems, Airbus, RR's, Leonardo, MBDA, and many more), LM, Saab, and Rostec(Sukhoi/Mig) be allowed to own it 100% or need local partnership???...

in my opinion the foreign company who will be winning in MRFA procurement should be allow owning it 100% of the production/manufacturing division to hasten up the process but they need to put Indian executives in it with a 80% Indian work force working in the Indian division.... It is better that going local partnership that might hinder the process of establishing the production/manufacturing company... because of our bureaucracy 😹😹😹 look for example our famous HAL always delayed or scrap it's project LMAO 😹😹😹

 

[War is good for business]

Seriously? When US is blackmailing Bharat on F404, how can you trust US on F414 for which only 80% TOT is promised. It seems France has now become the only nation which is reliable even when their products are very costly.

Has anyone ever given 80% or more ToT on jet engines?

 

[Anant]

Okay, I propose a twin engine Tejas. It would be better the MRFA.

I propose a seventh generation jet that can manage hypersonic speeds. Just saying something doesn't make it real.

 

[wallisk]

Hmmm 🤔🧐
Would the foreign company like Boeing, Dassault, Eurofighter Consortium(BAE systems, Airbus, RR's, Leonardo, MBDA, and many more), LM, Saab, and Rostec(Sukhoi/Mig) be allowed to own it 100% or need local partnership???...

in my opinion the foreign company who will be winning in MRFA procurement should be allow owning it 100% of the production/manufacturing division to hasten up the process but they need to put Indian executives in it with a 80% Indian work force working in the Indian division.... It is better that going local partnership that might hinder the process of establishing the production/manufacturing company... because of our bureaucracy 😹😹😹 look for example our famous HAL always delayed or scrap it's project LMAO 😹😹😹

GoI says manufacture every single nut bolt and screw in India, a simply IMPOSSIBLE task! UK MB will NEVER give away it's tech's as they are the de facto number one standard ejection seats in the world compared only next to Zvezda of Russia....

 

[wallisk]

What is the name of the fiction? 4th gen to be upgraded to 5th? WOW!! Even a layman knows it is not possible. I will purchase it first when you release your book. 🤣😂

IAF ACM asked for that at the 1st launch of MMRCA2.0 - an article appeared here itself..

 

[Pad UwU]

GoI says manufacture every single nut bolt and screw in India, a simply IMPOSSIBLE task! UK MB will NEVER give away it's tech's as they are the de facto number one standard ejection seats in the world compared only next to Zvezda of Russia....

Nah, why would they answer that they are willing to build plants here or doing JV partnership 🤔🧐.... ie,. Dassault France doing a takeover or might not possible just continue the partnership with our local company.... Give some more credible source instead 😹

 

[abhinav srivastava]

France is the only one who can clear the trials and do this.

They wont give full tech. Either Russia or older US jets like renamed F16 will provide full tech.

 

[abhinav srivastava]

I am still wondering what technology would be gained by MRFA which all planes seem outdated.

You'll get full tech only for outdated jets. No one will give you bleeding edge tech for 100-150 jets. Wait for back door entry of 1970's jets of US. May be they want India to use 1970's jets till 2070's.

 

[wallisk]

Nah, why would they answer that they are willing to build plants here or doing JV partnership 🤔🧐.... ie,. Dassault France doing a takeover or might not possible just continue the partnership with our local company.... Give some more credible source instead 😹

MRO plant DOES NOT mean 100% ToT my dear fella - GoI wants BOTH 100% ToT's AND a 100% manufacturing plant in India...

 

[abhinav srivastava]

Has anyone ever given 80% or more ToT on jet engines?

People use small fish as bait to lay trap for bigger fish.

 

[wallisk]

Pressure doesn't work, only carrots work.

And, Carrot = $50 to $60 BILLIONs of usd deal for just 114 fighter jets.....

 

[Anant]

When did IAF shortlist which plane they want in MRFA to blame MOD?

The RfP can be issued only after the AoN is given. As such, the ball has been in the MoD's court for a very long time.

 

[Anant]

First they need AoN from DAC to issue the RFP.

Isn't it the DPB that issues the AoN rather than the DAC?

 

[Anant]

Brother, abhi tender hi release nehi hua.. MOD ko knock baad main karna

Tender / RfP is issued after the AoN is given by the MoD.

Remember the flow: EoI -> AoN -> RfP -> Bid submission -> Bid evaluation -> DAC final clearance -> Final negotiations -> CCS clearance -> Contract signing.

 

[Anant]

So MRFA is not happening any sooner as nobody will give away 100% rights on a platter for only 126 planes.... with Tejas prodn. struck, going down to 29/30 squardens after retirement of MIGs, we r not able to cross the tendering phase yet.. wow.. this project will find its place in Guinness world records

28 squadrons at most once the MiG-21 bows out, and possibly dropping even further with the impending retirement of DARIN II Jaguars.

 

[Anant]

Better we make F-35 or F-16 block 70/72 aka F-21 or Rafale F-5 under make in India !

For the latter two of those to have any chance of winning MRFA, the MoD needs to issue the AoN.

 

[Anant]

Most delays are because west has infiltrated our procurement system with agents like yourself. They do not have same requirements of domestic. Foreign products though totally unsuitable like terrorist Canadian Stryker are not able to perform on high altitude s, but then they request them to modify engines as to suit, but better Mahindra and Tatas they cannot tell even short commings. Then you want to depend on trojan products. Americans are most untrustworthy.

You do realise that 95% of the delays in Tejas are attributable to domestic reasons, right? The US is not a trustworthy friend beyond a point, sure, but we have far larger problems domestically.

 

[Anant]

De facto shortlisting the 3: F-21/ Rafale/Russian

Boeing wont get any approvals to shift entire F-15EX or even F-18. Americans will hand over F-21 production lines that IAF will junk. Grippen is no go due to Mk2
Leaves Su-57 and Rafale to be realistic...wait and watch...this basically is India, for the first time, arm twisting the vendors instead of getting arm twisted by them. I also think this is India telling France...enough of BS..handover produciton or we are byung Su-57

Boeing might actually agree to shift the F-18 line to India, considering it is at an end. Regardless, I am of the opinion that we should not necessarily go for the F-18.

 

[Akshat]

Isn't it the DPB that issues the AoN rather than the DAC?

There are different segments, based on the budget required. For some DOB can issue AoN. But above a threshold, they pass it on to DAC. And it’s rare that DAC doesn’t approve what DOB sends. This is because there is already an agreement among the officers and only proposals which have been unofficially approved are sent to DAC.

For example, AoN was given by DAC for refuelers and for Prachand.

 

[Akshat]

They wont give full tech. Either Russia or older US jets like renamed F16 will provide full tech.

Before getting the tech, the first requirement is clearing the trials.

 

[abhinav srivastava]

Before getting the tech, the first requirement is clearing the trials.

They may consider previous trials in the interest of time.

 

[abhinav srivastava]

France is the only one who can clear the trials and do this.

They even didn't share MRO tech with anyone.