MMRCA 2.0: India's Next Fighter Jet – News and Discussion

[Akshat]

They even didn't share MRO tech with anyone.

Did we include that in any of the contracts? Please show me when did we ask for it officially.

 

[Akshat]

They may consider previous trials in the interest of time.

I think it has been decided that they will test newer planes and new features of any previous planes which participated in MMRCA. I am not sure if this has been stated officially or not yet.

And if they do use older trials, then F18, F16, MiG 35 and Gripen will out right away. Only Su35, Rafale, EF and F15.

 

[Aayush Pratap]

This circus will go on forever and will ultimately hold the dubious distinction of being the longest open contract in the history of the world that ended up going nowhere. Jai Ho

 

[ABHIJIT APSINGIKAR]

Most delays are because west has infiltrated our procurement system with agents like yourself. They do not have same requirements of domestic. Foreign products though totally unsuitable like terrorist Canadian Stryker are not able to perform on high altitude s, but then they request them to modify engines as to suit, but better Mahindra and Tatas they cannot tell even short commings. Then you want to depend on trojan products. Americans are most untrustworthy.

OH Tell Mr one single project delivered on time. Do u chumps even realize that tge very core definition of a project is its a "Time Bound Endeavor to achive a specificgoal or objective". Emphasis on TIME BOUND. Even the DPSU know there is no way they are going to meet target deadline. Yet tine abd again they take every one on a ride. Promising moon yet not even delivering peanuts. People such as u expect that specifications shoukd be watered down just bcoz we are buying from domestic sector . We'll in weapon design there is no such thing as partial fulfillment of requirements. It's either it meets specifications or it does not . PERIOD.

 

[PKPRS]

i always said every Nut/bolt ready to manufacture company will win MRFA ,But after GE-404 Engine delay drama India should b careful & should not over depend on US.India think two front war if supply chain is not good how to fought war.Not only Fighter jet under MRFA should b manufacture in India But opportunity exist in Exporting this jets to Freindly nation too. India needs Complete Eco-system of Fighter jet & Engine used in that Jet to b manufactured in India.Even some weapons too should b manufactured under License.

In Article F-15Ex & Su-35 is missing whether or not win is next Thing But they 2 are also contenders of MRFA .

So it will be MIG-35, this is how it should have been from the beginning(I am talking about 100%TOT), $10Bln wasted unnecessarily for only 36 Rafale, I don’t think any one will accept 100% TOT, too unrealistic goal, even Russia will only offer 100% TOT only on MIG-35 may be, which is the only jet no Country has bought so far, Russia will be more than willing to transfer 100%Tech, instead of buying MIG-35, we can fit two RD-33MK engines and make ORCA and TEDBF in parallel also.

 

[PKPRS]

I am still wondering what technology would be gained by MRFA which all planes seem outdated.

If we are able to make a 100% 4th gen jet entirely from parts sourced within India, that would be the gain.

 

[kumar]

Excellent move by gov. These western arm suppliers were busy arm twisting us. Now the companies who want to make money, let them come here and setup production line here. Complete manufacturing here, so that US deep state doesn't try to f@ck with us. This will apply to the deep state controlles slaves also.

 

[PKPRS]

Only LM F-21 and Boeing F/A-18 and F-15EX was willing to manufacture all of their fighters in India with an Indian partner.
Rostec and HAL tie-up was a disaster for India.

Do not hold your breath about MRFA at all.

Go full steam ahead with Tejas IA productions and Tejas Mk2 developments.
Bring in private players to put competition on HAL or else it will keep going with its lackadaisical attitudes.

No vision or planning and execution on parts of IAF, MoD, GoI, and above all HAL.

100% include engine also, so I don’t think any US jets have a chance and neither Gripen as it needs GE F414, engine is the main problem and this the reason there is rumor of fitting RD-33 engine in Tejas, this means there is a underlying problem between India and the US.

 

[PKPRS]

Um, the Gripen is powered by a F404 derivative.

Nope, F414 derivative that output 118Kn more than the output of one European twin engine jet SAB can switch the engines also for us may be EJ200 also.

 

[Anant]

So it will be MIG-35, this is how it should have been from the beginning(I am talking about 100%TOT), $10Bln wasted unnecessarily for only 36 Rafale, I don’t think any one will accept 100% TOT, too unrealistic goal, even Russia will only offer 100% TOT only on MIG-35 may be, which is the only jet no Country has bought so far, Russia will be more than willing to transfer 100%Tech, instead of buying MIG-35, we can fit two RD-33MK engines and make ORCA and TEDBF in parallel also.

Why on Earth would you want an ancient MiG-29 with the serial numbers filed off? The MiG-35 is essentially a repackaged MiG-29 that Russia itself isn't buying, not to mention the fact that a number of MiG-29 operators have started retiring the aircraft, or have dates in place to do so.

 

[pallab hazarika]

Just buy 6 squadrons of rafale and put more money into R&D for Tejas and AMCA, end this tender which is going on for decades with no progress, it's just a ticket for higher ups to visit foreign countries in the name of evaluation

 

[Anant]

This approach is long overdue. Lame excuses like squadron depletion should not be linked to this approach.

Lame excuses? We'll just tell the Chinese and Bhikaristanis not to pull any nonsense for the next 30 years since we are re-arming, right?

 

[wallisk]

So it will be MIG-35, this is how it should have been from the beginning(I am talking about 100%TOT), $10Bln wasted unnecessarily for only 36 Rafale, I don’t think any one will accept 100% TOT, too unrealistic goal, even Russia will only offer 100% TOT only on MIG-35 may be, which is the only jet no Country has bought so far, Russia will be more than willing to transfer 100%Tech, instead of buying MIG-35, we can fit two RD-33MK engines and make ORCA and TEDBF in parallel also.

Might be Pappu Soga Gov in 2030 year, will come in and order 72 Rafale F5 version jets for IAF; when ACM starts crying for non-Russian jets perhaps so.....?? Until then ONLY MIG35's will save IAF and also India will be heavily sanctioned by west Japan SK and Singapore also!

 

[Anant]

So, they will not share their tech.....well and good. Now, they will not be able to have us in limbo and we will save a huge amount, about 23 billion. Simply.

That doesn't solve our problem of depleting fighter numbers, does it?

 

[Anant]

Nope, F414 derivative that output 118Kn more than the output of one European twin engine jet SAB can switch the engines also for us may be EJ200 also.

F414 derivative, yes. 118 kN, nope. The F414 derivative on the Gripen E/F seems to be capable of generating 98 kN wet thrust.

 

[PKPRS]

Why on Earth would you want an ancient MiG-29 with the serial numbers filed off? The MiG-35 is essentially a repackaged MiG-29 that Russia itself isn't buying, not to mention the fact that a number of MiG-29 operators have started retiring the aircraft, or have dates in place to do so.

Because your Favorite Company/Country doesn’t want to make in India or work with any Indian entity or ready to transfer even 1% Tech.

 

[Anant]

Just buy 6 squadrons of rafale and put more money into R&D for Tejas and AMCA, end this tender which is going on for decades with no progress, it's just a ticket for higher ups to visit foreign countries in the name of evaluation

6 squadrons is the strength under MRFA. What you are suggesting, therefore, is MEFA, potentially without local manufacturing.

 

[PKPRS]

Might be Pappu Soga Gov in 2030 year, will come in and order 72 Rafale F5 version jets for IAF; when ACM starts crying for non-Russian jets perhaps so.....?? Until then ONLY MIG35's will save IAF and also India will be heavily sanctioned by west Japan SK and Singapore also!

India is already virtually sanctioned which is quiet apparent with the engine denial and dragging, what I think would have happened is, we might have been forced to consider F21 inorder to get GE engine that we didn’t accept, to show defiance M0di went and met Putin which made things even worse, Europeans including France will follow the suit soon, Even Russia won’t offer 100%TOT on SU-35 which is their current famous and hottest jet that has a huge export potential once the war ends, realistically they won’t offer much TOT on SU-75 also, so the only jet left is MIG-35, which they will be more than willing to offer 100% TOT, I am realistic here considering every single factor, unlike some people who dream, we are going to make RD-33MK engine soon for MI-29 UPG upgrade, I truely believe this is our only option or fit two RD-3Mk and make both ORCA and TEDBF, unless Russia offers excessive TOT on SU-75 which I am highly doubtful.

 

[Anant]

Because your Favorite Company/Country doesn’t want to make in India or work with any Indian entity or ready to transfer even 1% Tech.

Again with that silly accusation from you or beencensured about me being in favour of one particular jet in MRFA.

I have said it time and again that I am not in favour of any particular jet. All I say is that the Rafale has a starting advantage since it is already in use. If you cannot comprehend the difference between those two statements, then I don't have anything else to say to you.

However, I will say this: If you really want the Su-35, just go for more Su-30MKIs in the Super Sukhoi configuration with the AL-41 engine.

As for the MiG-35, it is a big failure of a project that essentially looked to re-brand the MiG-29K and sell it. When we have a date set for the retirement of the MiG-29 and MiG-29K, plus the fact that operators around the world are looking to retire the MiG-29 gradually, plus the fact that even Russia has not purchased the MiG-35 besides a small token number, why would you reasonably want that? Even the Su-57 has atleast been bought by Russia. The MiG-35 is just a gone case, if you ask me.

That said, if the IAF decides the MiG-35 is the best for their needs, then so be it. They know better than you or I.

Maybe, just maybe, next time before you start levelling accusations, think things through once.

 

[PKPRS]

Again with that silly accusation from you or beencensured about me being in favour of one particular jet in MRFA.

I have said it time and again that I am not in favour of any particular jet. All I say is that the Rafale has a starting advantage since it is already in use. If you cannot comprehend the difference between those two statements, then I don't have anything else to say to you.

However, I will say this: If you really want the Su-35, just go for more Su-30MKIs in the Super Sukhoi configuration with the AL-41 engine.

As for the MiG-35, it is a big failure of a project that essentially looked to re-brand the MiG-29K and sell it. When we have a date set for the retirement of the MiG-29 and MiG-29K, plus the fact that operators around the world are looking to retire the MiG-29 gradually, plus the fact that even Russia has not purchased the MiG-35 besides a small token number, why would you reasonably want that? Even the Su-57 has atleast been bought by Russia. The MiG-35 is just a gone case, if you ask me.

That said, if the IAF decides the MiG-35 is the best for their needs, then so be it. They know better than you or I.

Maybe, just maybe, next time before you start levelling accusations, think things through once.

But your postings are quiet obvious otherwise, even after your denial many times.

 

[PKPRS]

F414 derivative, yes. 118 kN, nope. The F414 derivative on the Gripen E/F seems to be capable of generating 98 kN wet thrust.

Right currently, SAAB GE414 variant makes 98Kn Thrust, but is different variant than one that was proposed to India, it’s dry thrust is more, that allows Gripen E to super cruise at 1.1 mach without using After Burners, but SAAB has a plan to use EPE derivative of this engine during next upgrade.

 

[Dredd]

Why on Earth would you want an ancient MiG-29 with the serial numbers filed off? The MiG-35 is essentially a repackaged MiG-29 that Russia itself isn't buying, not to mention the fact that a number of MiG-29 operators have started retiring the aircraft, or have dates in place to do so.

Anything is better than Mig35 even our tejas Mk1A.

 

[beencensured]

OH Tell Mr one single project delivered on time. Do u chumps even realize that tge very core definition of a project is its a "Time Bound Endeavor to achive a specificgoal or objective". Emphasis on TIME BOUND. Even the DPSU know there is no way they are going to meet target deadline. Yet tine abd again they take every one on a ride. Promising moon yet not even delivering peanuts. People such as u expect that specifications shoukd be watered down just bcoz we are buying from domestic sector . We'll in weapon design there is no such thing as partial fulfillment of requirements. It's either it meets specifications or it does not . PERIOD.

Who make specifications, and why they are different than foreign which has exceptions. If lopsided thinking are used then you can justify nonsense, but Indian is always been better than foreign.

 

[PKPRS]

Why on Earth would you want an ancient MiG-29 with the serial numbers filed off? The MiG-35 is essentially a repackaged MiG-29 that Russia itself isn't buying, not to mention the fact that a number of MiG-29 operators have started retiring the aircraft, or have dates in place to do so.

Something is better than anything at all, SU-35 is not needed when we are doing Super upgrade, also they only want MWF not heavy fighter jet, Russia won’t offer TOT on SU-75 or SU-57, so if we buy any jet from them it will be either MIG-35 or make SU-75 in india with reasonable amount of TOT or go back to FGFA, other Countries wont’t offer even 1% TOT realistically.

 

[PKPRS]

Anything is better than Mig35 even our tejas Mk1A.

We have to deal with the devil HAL, this is why they wanted a different entity to work on this project.

 

[PKPRS]

Seriously? When US is blackmailing Bharat on F404, how can you trust US on F414 for which only 80% TOT is promised. It seems France has now become the only nation which is reliable even when their products are very costly.

We have to forget about GE engine.

 

[PKPRS]

Gripen failed the trials. As for cost, Rafale has been chosen as L1 every single time by India so they are the cheapest. No dirty gaming by them.

Yes Gripen C and D prototypes, and even Rafale F3, that’s why we bought only 36.

 

[Akshat]

Yes Gripen C and D prototypes, and even Rafale F3, that’s why we bought only 36.

That’s still 36 more than EF or F18 or F16 or Gripen or Mig 35. Imagine how much IAF must have hated their performance. Kicked them right out (except EF of course, which was way too expensive).

 

[PKPRS]

That’s still 36 more than EF or F18 or F16 or Gripen or Mig 35. Imagine how much IAF must have hated their performance. Kicked them right out (except EF of course, which was way too expensive).

Gripen E, F/A-18 Block 3, SU-35, F15EX F16 Block 72/F21 and EF-Typhoon Tranche 5 are not kicked out.

 

[Akshat]

Gripen E, F/A-18 Block 3, SU-35, F15EX F16 Block 72/F21 and EF-Typhoon Tranche 5 are not kicked out.

Of F18 block 3 was just kicked out by the navy. And Gripen E was kicked out by the IAF in MMRCA as that was the version offered.