Tejas Trainer Program Gains Momentum: Sixth Aircraft Nears Delivery

The Indian Air Force's (IAF) commitment to bolstering its training capabilities with the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas continues to materialize, with the recent sighting of the sixth Tejas trainer at Hindustan Aeronautics Limited's (HAL) production facility.

Images of the Tejas trainer, designated LT 5206, indicate the aircraft is in the final stages of assembly. This marks a significant milestone following the delivery of the first twin-seater trainer (LT 5201) to the IAF in October 2023.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1770772352013369461

These specialized trainers are designed to facilitate smoother pilot transition within IAF squadrons, prior to their assignment to the advanced single-seater Tejas Mk1A fighter.

Notably, an additional trainer, LT 5205, appears ready for delivery and is likely undergoing pre-flight taxi trials. These developments suggest a steady ramp-up of the Tejas trainer program.

The IAF has committed to acquiring 18 LCA Tejas twin-seater trainers. This strategic investment ensures that pilots converting from legacy aircraft will have access to a training platform tailored to the complexities of the Tejas Mk1A.

The growth of the IAF's Tejas trainer fleet underscores India's dedication to achieving self-reliance in pilot training, using its own domestically developed fighter aircraft.

By providing a seamless conversion path, the Tejas trainer will play a pivotal role in preparing a new generation of pilots for the IAF's future fleet of single-seater Tejas Mk1A fighters.

 

[Ashutosh]

Financial year will close within 8 days & you expect they will deliver that quantity? 🤣

Are yaar canteen ke samose ki bhi value hai, u want them to leave canteen and go to work and make a samosa design ( offend mat hojana, I ♥️Tejas, just talking about its design)

 

[Anurag]

It’s a direct on win one comparison between 2 significantly modified planes with no aerodynamic changes.

The PIB release itself says 3 planes in 36 months. No need of going anywhere else if you have read that.

As I agree with you on certain points like punishment should be their & that to without tax payers money!!

But here what I want to say is that-
An order worth Rs 36,468 Crore for delivery of 83 LCA Mk 1A aircraft has been placed with HAL and delivery is scheduled to begin by February 2024.
Delivery is to begin by Feb so I thought hal needs to deliver total 11(8+3) plane this year(if they deliver 10(8+2) then also it's ok as I don't expect this much from hal)!!

And the comparison between both the aircraft is useless because of few points that are my personal opinion - Dassault already have production line and aircraft is already in production.
While they delivered aircraft early but ISE was later added to the aircraft!!

And what I know about delay caused to the Tejas Mk1a was due to fly by wire software issue(Is it truth or not I am not sure about it as I don't have any concrete proof about it!!

 

[Akshat]

As I agree with you on certain points like punishment should be their & that to without tax payers money!!

But here what I want to say is that-
An order worth Rs 36,468 Crore for delivery of 83 LCA Mk 1A aircraft has been placed with HAL and delivery is scheduled to begin by February 2024.
Delivery is to begin by Feb so I thought hal needs to deliver total 11(8+3) plane this year(if they deliver 10(8+2) then also it's ok as I don't expect this much from hal)!!

And the comparison between both the aircraft is useless because of few points that are my personal opinion - Dassault already have production line and aircraft is already in production.
While they delivered aircraft early but ISE was later added to the aircraft!!

And what I know about delay caused to the Tejas Mk1a was due to fly by wire software issue(Is it truth or not I am not sure about it as I don't have any concrete proof about it!!

Wrong. Delivery was not to begin by Feb 2024. They had to deliver the 3 mk1a within first 36 months. That is, 3 mk1a by 03 Feb 2024. Then 16 planes in the next 12 months.

HAL also has a working production line. Of 16 planes. How ISE are added is their headache. Point remains that a contract was signed and a contract was violated.

 

[Anurag]

Have they yet delivered the original 40 tejas contracted for? There is no news after 32 & one trainer was delivered. So how it is an improvement? Moreover tejasmk1a is HAL's baby & it will be delivered prompltly.

Of the actual contract of 40 Tejas later 8 were demanded in the form of trainer varient. That's why 18 trainer varient 10 from the 83 Tejas deal!!
32 were delivered already and last year 2 trainer varient delivered around oct!!
Remaining will be delivered this year as 3 are already in advance stage of completion of all the flight test and 1 is also almost ready to be tested!!

 

[Anurag]

Bro u shall tell him that ADA has done more than enough individual discussions and even held one large discussion still Pvt. Sector couldn't gather the guts to invest

The thing is private sector Don't want to invest a hefty amount of money based on assumptions without any guarantee!!
As I have a good example of l&t they invested in k9 vajra & they delivered on time and still they are waiting for the additional orders(100) k9 vajra!! That's totally waste of money as mod can't take decisions quickly idling of the k9 vajra line is still for me is just a poor decision making strategy!!

 

[Anurag]

Wrong. Delivery was not to begin by Feb 2024. They had to deliver the 3 mk1a within first 36 months. That is, 3 mk1a by 03 Feb 2024. Then 16 planes in the next 12 months.

HAL also has a working production line. Of 16 planes. How ISE are added is their headache. Point remains that a contract was signed and a contract was violated.

Please provide me the link because I think I have read it from different PIB(as I copy-pasted the words from PIB)!! This may clear the confusion between us!!

 

[Akshat]

the deal was singed in Jan 2021, covid was still causing disruptions that time. And Covid would have caused disruptions and backlogs in past 1 year. So that must have needed clearing up. Maybe behind the scenes some compromise was reached, IDK.

Dassault delivered their jets on time during peak covid.

L&T delivered Vajra before time during peak covid.

L$T developed Zorawar during covid.

Turkey developed and flew their planes on time during covid.

Even in civilian sector, a car company fought a case in court in 2021 and the court said that Covid is not an issue anymore.

So no one else has any issues with Covid but our DPSUs?

 

[Akshat]

what were his exact words? Did he say, HAL and ADA are responsible for delay, or HAL and ADA are making it difficult for Private players to get in, or did he say that HAL and ADA are deliberately making it difficult for SPV model to succeed. He just said that HAL and ADA need to have more meetings. This is not "blame". From what I have heard that private players are not worried about HAL, they have different wories related to cost and expertise.

He expressly said that more such meetings are needed. He said that it is ADA and HAL’s job to do those. And they should hold more such sessions.

So if something is needed, it is their job and it is not happening, then that is a blame, not a statement.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

Dassault delivered their jets on time during peak covid.

L&T delivered Vajra before time during peak covid.

L$T developed Zorawar during covid.

Turkey developed and flew their planes on time during covid.

Even in civilian sector, a car company fought a case in court in 2021 and the court said that Covid is not an issue anymore.

So no one else has any issues with Covid but our DPSUs?

Look I cant convince you, you dont like DPSU's, I dont blame you. I like them, I believe that things have changed in last 5 years. I have hope. Maybe you will change your mind when deliveries start happening.

 

[Akshat]

Oh so you mean to say that all HAL and ADA need to do is hold regular meetings with private players to make SPV model feasible? If this were true then DoD would have already made them do it. You cant be serious when you say that just because HAL and ADA are not having meetings, the entire AMCA program is in limbo. You think negotiations and talks are not going on to find solution for such an important project?

Of course just one step is not the solution. A lot of things have to happen before and after it. And you assume that the step will be taken with an intention of success.

But not doing what is needed clearly shows that ADA and HAL had the express intention of keeping the private players out and not letting SPV succeed.

 

[Akshat]

Please provide me the link because I think I have read it from different PIB(as I copy-pasted the words from PIB)!! This may clear the confusion between us!!

Exact words from the PIB release. Now please send me the link you copied from.

“The deliveries of all 83 aircraft shall be completed in 8 years from now. HAL will be delivering the first 3 aircraft in the 3rd year and 16 aircrafts per year for subsequent 5 years.”

 

[Akshat]

Look I cant convince you, you dont like DPSU's, I dont blame you. I like them, I believe that things have changed in last 5 years. I have hope. Maybe you will change your mind when deliveries start happening.

Doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results is the very definition of being crazy. Even in the past 5 years nothing has changed. Numbers don’t lie. I don’t need convincing. Only hard numbers. And data backs me.

 

[Akhil]

Doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results is the very definition of being crazy. Even in the past 5 years nothing has changed. Numbers don’t lie. I don’t need convincing. Only hard numbers. And data backs me.

Brother you are like tail of an old dog which won't get straight. HAL is building our whole damn defense ecosystem.There are secondary vendors involved which never had the expertise to build defense equipment right from smallest nut. When India came out with their block list banning bolt import and other items it was more pitiable than laughable. Our prior governments had given such low priority to defense manufacturing that we were importing these stuff.

Now when government through HAL is handholding such secondary vendors you really are deluded to think delays are not expected. Or do you really think there are no medium scale private enterprises involved in secondary/tertiary supply chain ecosystem?
Do you really think a private enterprise like Tata/reliance, etc is capable enough right now to build our defense ecosystem from ground up? What would have been the cost then? Because HaL is not only building a plane. Enough value addition is required in secondary, tertiary supply chain to make it lucrative for them to build assembly lines.
Do you really think private enterprises would have shared enough profit to help cultivate one/two competitor for each subsystem. Why would they? They will sell to lowest bidder or monopolise.

Anyways, if in the contract it was ever mentioned that there will be fines, buyer is free to pursue them unless they know more than you and me.

 

[Akshat]

Brother you are like tail of an old dog which won't get straight. HAL is building our whole damn defense ecosystem.There are secondary vendors involved which never had the expertise to build defense equipment right from smallest nut. When India came out with their block list banning bolt import and other items it was more pitiable than laughable. Our prior governments had given such low priority to defense manufacturing that we were importing these stuff.

You are the old dog’s tail which won’t straighten.

HAL is charging exorbitant profits. No one had to spare any profits. They would have received windfall gains. Anyone, literally anyone in the world, can do a better job than HAL. HAL is the only one destroying our entire MIC. They are the curse on our armed forces. That’s what they are. Just wasting thousands of crores and not letting others grow either. They have had decades to grow but they simply refuse to work.

 

[Anurag]

Exact words from the PIB release. Now please send me the link you copied from.

“The deliveries of all 83 aircraft shall be completed in 8 years from now. HAL will be delivering the first 3 aircraft in the 3rd year and 16 aircrafts per year for subsequent 5 years.”

Actually I am not able to send you the link here... But you may search it on PIB dates back to 25 nov 2023 about Tejas Mk1a 83 aircraft deal!
About the confusion that created is because of two different article of PIB as you send the words of old one & I have read it that of later date!!

 

[NSR]

Dassault is not owned by the French government in any way, shape or form.

It is a long story.
It used to own and it transferred its shares to Aerospatiale (EADS) and then to Airbus.

"Between 1977 and 1981 the French government accumulated a 45.76 percent interest in Dassault, which it transferred to the French aerospace firm Aerospatiale (a forerunner of EADS) in 1998.Mar 8, 2024"

 

[Saptarshi Ray]

I say it is right time to bring in a Private Company to establish another manufacturing plant to produce Tejas IA at maximum possible rate and give some competition to HAL.
HAL surely needs to adapt itself to work like Dassault which is also owned by French government and private equity.

India will not be able to meet the milestones of so many fighter development and manufacturing without changing the public companies practices.

Why do you write nonsense, French govt owning Dassault!!?

 

[NSR]

Why do you write nonsense, French govt owning Dassault!!?

Read on ...

It is a long story.
It used to own and it transferred its shares to Aerospatiale (EADS) and then to Airbus.

"Between 1977 and 1981 the French government accumulated a 45.76 percent interest in Dassault, which it transferred to the French aerospace firm Aerospatiale (a forerunner of EADS) in 1998.Mar 8, 2024"

 

[Saptarshi Ray]

Read on ...

It is a long story.
It used to own and it transferred its shares to Aerospatiale (EADS) and then to Airbus.

"Between 1977 and 1981 the French government accumulated a 45.76 percent interest in Dassault, which it transferred to the French aerospace firm Aerospatiale (a forerunner of EADS) in 1998.Mar 8, 2024"

It's an old story of 1979 when they acquired 20% share, and in that case every defense industry was nationalised by the French after the second World War. Doesn't matter now.

 

[Saptarshi Ray]

He specifically said that more sessions are needed and they are ADA and HAL’s job and they have not been held. So that’s a direct indictment of those 2. He specifically said that those sessions are needed.

You are totally wrong, whatever said and done it's the job of the govt to egg on private players in defense industries. HAL can only hand hold them on the instructions of govt.

 

[Saptarshi Ray]

Of course just one step is not the solution. A lot of things have to happen before and after it. And you assume that the step will be taken with an intention of success.

But not doing what is needed clearly shows that ADA and HAL had the express intention of keeping the private players out and not letting SPV succeed.

HAL and ADA are not autonomous organizations, they work under the govt, they don't have the power to keep anybody out.

 

[BCharlie]

PIB release, the official source for all government information, mentioned 3 mk1a by 3 Feb 2024.

Sirji, even One is a big ask; If it finally is done in 2024 instead of 2034.. its OK;

 

[Saptarshi Ray]

Let’s forget the speicifica for a bit. Isn’t it undeniable that HAL has missed the deadline and must be severely punished for it? Heads should roll for this u acceptable delay?

Why do you people argue so much, it becomes boring. Give us some new information, so we all get wiser.

 

[Saptarshi Ray]

Because MK1a is the first jet of its class and it has many new components, most of which are indigenous. Cannot compare to rafale, which dassault has been building for years.

Regarding that reliance shipyard, reliance (anil ambani) had boight that shipyard after it had received the orders. But then reliance itself sank and shipyard also sank. The delay was very heavy and not even 1 ship out of 5 was delivered, and 2 more years later when deliverieas still not done, the contract was cancelled.

You cant compare a bankrupt company incapable of making delivery to HAL.

Absolutely right, there were many problems because of the policy of indigenous components and upgrades and covid

 

[Akhil]

You are the old dog’s tail which won’t straighten.

HAL is charging exorbitant profits. No one had to spare any profits. They would have received windfall gains. Anyone, literally anyone in the world, can do a better job than HAL. HAL is the only one destroying our entire MIC. They are the curse on our armed forces. That’s what they are. Just wasting thousands of crores and not letting others grow either. They have had decades to grow but they simply refuse to work.

If that is so, then where is private alternative to HAL's project?

Where is private alternative to Tejas, Kaveri engine, private HALE, MALE, Tank?
Adani Drishti? K9 Vajra? Mahindra WhaP? Tata WhaP? L&T WhaP? Are these your indigenous private alternatives? Name me one project which showcases world class R&D by Indian private sector. Better thank the universe we have DRDO which you curse for most of them. Or half of them are literal foreign tech being manufactured here.

Tata, Mahindra have been heavy vehicle manufacturing engine for decades. Where is their R&D on drone engine, forget about jet engine. You are completely deluded mate. Our research labs & HAL are handholding them like little kids. And you think they can replace HAL and DRDO now. Wow!

 

[NSR]

It's an old story of 1979 when they acquired 20% share, and in that case every defense industry was nationalised by the French after the second World War. Doesn't matter now.

Don't argue and research and learn.
French government is tightly involved in Airbus, Dassault, Safran, etc all of its defense businesses in one way or other.
They keep them floated all the times.