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AMCA has been tabled for approval long back, yet no action taken place.
Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) News and Discussion
- Thread starter Manav Rastogi
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Ok I will come later to explain fund mismgt.
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Yes, in fact when you read history, almost every major change in India came from a shock. The war techniques changed when turkish and mughals defeated us, society got modern when Europeans came with guns and slaved us for 100 years.
We first lost to China then thought about not making pressure cooker in ordnance factories. After Kargil war we woke up to demand of jets and helicopters which can operate in Himalayas.
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It's not just HAL union, all unions have the support of opposition parties which they use as leverage and disbanding them is near to impossible within a democracy.
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HAL also filled with Dmb reservation ppl
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one more idea split the function of the R&D & production of HAL..So they need accoutable..
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One thing no one should forget that Turkey get knowledge from F-35 program and consultancy from BAE .. KFX get help from Lockheed... India is doing alone... GOI must stop this SPV model... No one will come.. sanction the fund let DRDO and hal do the job
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Funny thing is India has been stumbling since like 60s and still stumbling. While India's small peer countries were stumbling before but not anymore and have moved with better things now. That's the difference brought by work culture, realistic view of current world view, not glorifying and dwelling on some misguided past avchievements, babus incompetetnce, etc.
I think mk2 is important but useless distractions like the TEDBF are pointless. AMCA, mk2 and upgraded su30s should be the backbone of our fleet.
You surely doesn't belong to any technical institute otherwise you wouldn't be doing absurd talks.Do you think while world enginnering students or top experts were fool who took decades in development and here IIT is giving them brain tonic for accelerated outcomes. And undermining others is characteristics of inferiority driven mindset. Many are suffering from superiority syndrome, who find faults in others but someone ask abt their achievements, nada. who is stopping from top rankers to work for India, money urge or necessity overpowering other patriotic senses. Moreover for bike engine , car engine we rely on foreign firms, whole private sector is free since decades in these area, whole breeds of top ranker could join them, what is the outcome at present? Science ask for its own time to get mature, either provide funding or parallel manforce to shorten time, and both requires certain minimum funding.
IAF is betting on Rafale and Rafale M. If IAF purchase this in high number then there won't remains enough fund to drive AMCA and ORCA-TEDBF program. These program will be delay then IAF will again look for new foreign Jet.. Cycle continues.
Main issue is decision making from bureaucrats and allocation of fund on time. First time Jet development is always takes time. But we have to promote it. With Imported Jet India won't get technical expertise, forget ToT.
Turkey has zero experience with the F35, not sure where you are getting the idea.
One doesnt need to have 5th gen experience, China developed the J20 based on a single copy of a crashed F117 in Serbia.
The problem is that here in India, we have no concept of iterative development. The armed forces and the MoD all want the baby to start sprinting within a few days of birth.
For AMCA specifically, the PMO is to blame as the file for funding approval has been gathering dust for 2 years now.
NAH... TOP 300 RANKERS OF JEE ADVANCED are super high IQ
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Just because someone made 5th generation doesn't mean we also need it. We should look for operational efficiency. The cost of operating and maintaining a 5th generation aircraft is much higher, almost double than Rafales. We must push HAL to increase the production of MK1A and parallely develop MK2. Also the government should show political will to cancel MRFA and make atleast 136 Rafales here. France is ready to assemble here with TOT. We should not repeat the mistakes of Mirage 2000. The funds for AMCA should be released only after MK2 reaches production stage
their fees are paid by tax payers
The problem is not the SPV model as the private sector can always just supply the parts and components like they have with Tejas jet. Also the AMCA program hasn't even reached the prototype stage yet but when its time to enter production then there will be more participation from them. What do you expect the private sector to make when the blueprints aren't even ready?
We don't lack the technical know how as designing a jet on paper is easier than making it. The government has always been clear which is that the AMCA can only progress when they conclude the F414 engine negotiations. Also the program hasn't reached the prototype stage yet which should be in a few years.
NOBODY IS OFFERING AND NOBODY IS BUYING IT SO COME BACK TO REALITY AND AWAY FROM YOUR DELUSIONS!
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Sleep well IAF... Sleep well netas...
You can't build a prototype if they haven't concluded negotiations for the F414 engines. Also if DRDO haven't developed the technology and equipment yet then how is the PMO to blame?
They haven't concluded the F414 engine negotiations with the USA so how can they build a jet with no engines?
How is the government cheating? Developing Tejas MK1A and MK2 was necessary because thanks to your corrupt jihadi government we hardly had any jets to fly at all and wasted 10 years and still did nothing. Do you call that national importance?
This article is complete rubbish. The AMCA program can only proceed when they have finished negotiations with the USA for the F414 engine which the first 2 squadrons will use. After that we have signed a deal with Safran to design and develop a brand new engine which gives India 100% of the technology, local production and IPR to sell to whoever we want to.
The only way that turkey or South Korea managed to develop a stealth jet so quickly is because most of the technology, parts and equipment have been imported from the USA and Europe which has also been helping them as project consultants. So in reality their jets isn't a exclusive indigenous jet but it's a primarily imported jet. As turkey is a member of NATO it has a lot of access to advanced technology from the USA and Europe. South Korea is another close ally which also gets a lot of support.
India is developing everything by itself with no help or aid so other than the engine the jet is indigenously developed in India which is better as it grows our military industry as well. The AMCA will produce a 5.5th generation jet when it enters production and not a 5th generation jet like they have copied.
Also how is it the government fault? The government aren't scientists and if DRDO aren't ready with the technology and equipment then how do you expect the government to magically make a stealth jet?
The only way that turkey or South Korea managed to develop a stealth jet so quickly is because most of the technology, parts and equipment have been imported from the USA and Europe which has also been helping them as project consultants. So in reality their jets isn't a exclusive indigenous jet but it's a primarily imported jet. As turkey is a member of NATO it has a lot of access to advanced technology from the USA and Europe. South Korea is another close ally which also gets a lot of support.
India is developing everything by itself with no help or aid so other than the engine the jet is indigenously developed in India which is better as it grows our military industry as well. The AMCA will produce a 5.5th generation jet when it enters production and not a 5th generation jet like they have copied.
Also how is it the government fault? The government aren't scientists and if DRDO aren't ready with the technology and equipment then how do you expect the government to magically make a stealth jet?
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Do remember that we cannot just sit around and wait for indigenous fighters indefinitely.
Like it or not, we are at a point where a major modernisation is needed, and the Tejas Mk 1A / Mk 2 are not a one size fits all solution.
Indigenous development is important, but we are lagging behind badly. We really are not in a position where we can switch from a place where we operate foreign aircraft almost exclusively to a place where we have only indigenous aircraft. That journey takes two or three generations, not one.
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AMCA doesn't look like it's going to reach a 5th generation status completely, unless they can almost completely eliminate external weapon pylons. External weapon pylons, even when empty, are a wonderful way to increase RCS. For instance, the KF-21 and F-35 have detachable pylons, and when detached, there is very little on the underside of the wings sticking out to reflect RCS. Are we even planning on doing that?
No, AMCA will be, at best, a 5th generation fighter with some elements of networked combat. It is not going to be a 5.5th generation fighter in its present form.
We need a authoritative B J P government if we are serious about developing a country for Hindus and the religion.
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I was alarmed when Gen. naravane started thinking about supply chains, chin-pak collusion etc when there is a standoff and he had to take decision. Isn't this what career military professionals are supposed to do in peace time. Shouldn't they alter the procurement and safe guard supply chains. The enemy knows your weakness and will strike when you are least prepared.
I pity this people. Neither the military nor the civilian government knows what to do. Sometimes I think our greatest weakness is democracy.
India have already given permission for Tejas MK2 jets ages ago.
The AMCA program can only proceed when they have finished negotiations with the USA for the F414 engine which the first 2 squadrons will use. After that we have signed a deal with Safran to design and develop a brand new engine which gives India 100% of the technology, local production and IPR to sell to whoever we want to. So your information is wrong when you say the F414 engine deal was made a decade ago because they haven't finished the price negotiations at all.
The only way that turkey or South Korea managed to develop a stealth jet so quickly is because most of the technology, parts and equipment have been imported from the USA and Europe which has also been helping them as project consultants. So in reality their jets isn't a exclusive indigenous jet but it's a primarily imported jet. As turkey is a member of NATO it has a lot of access to advanced technology from the USA and Europe. South Korea is another close ally which also gets a lot of support.
India is developing everything by itself with no help or aid so other than the engine the jet is indigenously developed in India which is better as it grows our military industry as well. The AMCA will produce a 5.5th generation jet when it enters production and not a 5th generation jet like they have copied.
The Chinese jets are not actual stealth jet fighters as we can still pick up on their radar and IR signatures on our Sukhoi and Rafale jets. We also have our own SAM defence network like Akash, MR-SAM and the S400 systems deployed so with a combination of all of these systems we have a good defence cover.
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No, that's the Chinese deception. It's deliberately kept radar signature during peace time. In combat, expect surprises. Chinese are not fools either. Whoever underestimated our enemies ended up like our forefathers who charged straight to cannon fire.
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