Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) News and Discussion

[yogesh]

Reference the article, a steady progress means that we are learning and applying ourselves.

The countries mentioned herein have created the necessary infrastructure for defense production which we are doing now on scale.

It isn't fair to compare with others because there may be different reasons for enhanced performance.

One of the important aspects to consider in any kind of product development is that of research work that goes into it.

Some people think that Indians don't have the ability to develop cutting edge technologies which is factually incorrect.

It is more about the enabling environment that facilitates design and development of platforms or products.

In all developed countries research work is accomplished in universities and usually defense forces also provide liberal grants for research in specific areas.

Unless our university campuses evolve into truly multi disciplinary, interdisciplinary and transdisciplinary study we will be missing out on important aspects of "features " that are required for product development.

It is these features that makes products cutting edge because it is this aspect of research work that needs to be incorporated into projects/programs.

We are not stupid but instead lack the missing bits and pieces of knowledge which is always a university program.

Even developing an open source software with all the bells and whistles is about incorporating those research features into products or platforms.

No, we are not stupid but we need both time & money to research within an environment that pushes us to achieve big and create innovative solutions/features which then can be part of development activities.

Let's not compare but instead chart a course for excellence in each district of the country

 

[VKP]

If you are learning curve , it will take time. Instead of making noise

 

[sri hari Kumar]

THE DRDO IS NOT THE PROBLEM...THE LOW IQ ENGINEERS FROM 3RD TIER ENGINEERING C0LLEGES WORKING IN DRDO GTRE ADE HAL ARE THE PROBLEM...

you must be day dreaming. as high IQ students they are not hanging out they all fly away and do mundane thiings in lala land

 

[beencensured]

Until one realizes that it is the same for every single organization that ever existed.

In private, they get fired if that is all they do. HAL union is strong as GOI cannot even say anything to the employees.

 

[MANIVANNAN N]

Current situation is both DRDO and private companies hire only engineer from 3rd tier engineering colleges, hence no results

Oh super. Mylsamy annadurai, veeramuthuvel, tessythomas, Vanitha, all coming from iit? They doing extraordinary. Just with normal colleges. Change yr mindset bro.

 

[beencensured]

HAL has no experience with managing and producing a complex stealth jet given that it even struggles to put together a simple light 4th gen jet like Tejas.

AMCA has been tabled for approval long back, yet no action taken place.

 

[MANIVANNAN N]

Really., did u know what amount spend on J-20 or KA-50... Or in su-57.. first get the knowledge

Ok I will come later to explain fund mismgt.

 

[Vijigishu ( विजिग्शु )]

Indians are foolish people who cannot startegise, plan or manage. No wonder we were under foreign occupation for close to 1000 years. Most of the masses are corrupt and brainwashed. The system needs a drastic shock therapy. Either a disastrous defeat in a war, or an authoritative takeover forcing change and stopping of chaotic democracy would help.

Yes, in fact when you read history, almost every major change in India came from a shock. The war techniques changed when turkish and mughals defeated us, society got modern when Europeans came with guns and slaved us for 100 years.

We first lost to China then thought about not making pressure cooker in ordnance factories. After Kargil war we woke up to demand of jets and helicopters which can operate in Himalayas.

 

[Aravind Raveendran]

In private, they get fired if that is all they do. HAL union is strong as GOI cannot even say anything to the employees.

It's not just HAL union, all unions have the support of opposition parties which they use as leverage and disbanding them is near to impossible within a democracy.

 

[Rational Guy]

In private, they get fired if that is all they do. HAL union is strong as GOI cannot even say anything to the employees.

HAL also filled with Dmb reservation ppl

 

[Sathish Kumaram]

one more idea split the function of the R&D & production of HAL..So they need accoutable..

 

[Superpower Bharat]

One thing no one should forget that Turkey get knowledge from F-35 program and consultancy from BAE .. KFX get help from Lockheed... India is doing alone... GOI must stop this SPV model... No one will come.. sanction the fund let DRDO and hal do the job

 

[CCPSmasher]

Funny thing is India has been stumbling since like 60s and still stumbling. While India's small peer countries were stumbling before but not anymore and have moved with better things now. That's the difference brought by work culture, realistic view of current world view, not glorifying and dwelling on some misguided past avchievements, babus incompetetnce, etc.

 

[Borodine]

The fund used on mk2 actually enough for amca development. The drdo expanded mk2 project and wasting money in single engine fighter. No stradegic importance in this fighter. Easy improvements and success rate high so aiming that. Ignoring amca and putting iaf in dangerous condition. Ignoring challenges also just happy with. 4th gen fighter. No goovt. Fault. All game by drdo and hal.

I think mk2 is important but useless distractions like the TEDBF are pointless. AMCA, mk2 and upgraded su30s should be the backbone of our fleet.

 

[Nitin R]

JUST HIRE HIGH IQ B TECH STUDENTS FROM IIT. NOT M TECH NOT PHD ONLY B TECH.

You surely doesn't belong to any technical institute otherwise you wouldn't be doing absurd talks.Do you think while world enginnering students or top experts were fool who took decades in development and here IIT is giving them brain tonic for accelerated outcomes. And undermining others is characteristics of inferiority driven mindset. Many are suffering from superiority syndrome, who find faults in others but someone ask abt their achievements, nada. who is stopping from top rankers to work for India, money urge or necessity overpowering other patriotic senses. Moreover for bike engine , car engine we rely on foreign firms, whole private sector is free since decades in these area, whole breeds of top ranker could join them, what is the outcome at present? Science ask for its own time to get mature, either provide funding or parallel manforce to shorten time, and both requires certain minimum funding.

 

[Swapy]

India should have given green light to Tejas Mk 2 and AMCA right after Tejas IA FOC because India signed contract for 99 GE F-414INS6 engines about a decade ago with about 50-60% TOT.

IAF is betting on Rafale and Rafale M. If IAF purchase this in high number then there won't remains enough fund to drive AMCA and ORCA-TEDBF program. These program will be delay then IAF will again look for new foreign Jet.. Cycle continues.
Main issue is decision making from bureaucrats and allocation of fund on time. First time Jet development is always takes time. But we have to promote it. With Imported Jet India won't get technical expertise, forget ToT.

 

[Borodine]

These two countries had actual experience with real 5th Gen fighter program like the F-35,as they were partner nations from early on,so had a pretty good idea what technologies were required and how to integrate and produce them.

Turkey has zero experience with the F35, not sure where you are getting the idea.
One doesnt need to have 5th gen experience, China developed the J20 based on a single copy of a crashed F117 in Serbia.

The problem is that here in India, we have no concept of iterative development. The armed forces and the MoD all want the baby to start sprinting within a few days of birth.

For AMCA specifically, the PMO is to blame as the file for funding approval has been gathering dust for 2 years now.

 

[Frank]

Oh super. Mylsamy annadurai, veeramuthuvel, tessythomas, Vanitha, all coming from iit? They doing extraordinary. Just with normal colleges. Change yr mindset bro.

NAH... TOP 300 RANKERS OF JEE ADVANCED are super high IQ

 

[Baiju Bhaskaran]

Just because someone made 5th generation doesn't mean we also need it. We should look for operational efficiency. The cost of operating and maintaining a 5th generation aircraft is much higher, almost double than Rafales. We must push HAL to increase the production of MK1A and parallely develop MK2. Also the government should show political will to cancel MRFA and make atleast 136 Rafales here. France is ready to assemble here with TOT. We should not repeat the mistakes of Mirage 2000. The funds for AMCA should be released only after MK2 reaches production stage

 

[Frank]

you must be day dreaming. as high IQ students they are not hanging out they all fly away and do mundane thiings in lala land

their fees are paid by tax payers

 

[Sandeep]

One thing no one should forget that Turkey get knowledge from F-35 program and consultancy from BAE .. KFX get help from Lockheed... India is doing alone... GOI must stop this SPV model... No one will come.. sanction the fund let DRDO and hal do the job

The problem is not the SPV model as the private sector can always just supply the parts and components like they have with Tejas jet. Also the AMCA program hasn't even reached the prototype stage yet but when its time to enter production then there will be more participation from them. What do you expect the private sector to make when the blueprints aren't even ready?

 

[Sandeep]

Though we probably lack the technical knowhow to develop fighter aircrafts on our own the main issue is indecision by the government no matter which party is in power. Without timely backing and will almost all our defense programs are delayed.

We don't lack the technical know how as designing a jet on paper is easier than making it. The government has always been clear which is that the AMCA can only progress when they conclude the F414 engine negotiations. Also the program hasn't reached the prototype stage yet which should be in a few years.

 

[Sandeep]

Better we ink deal to make India specific F-35s or Su-57 here in India under MRFA it will help ADA/HAL to reduce gestation period of AMCA !

NOBODY IS OFFERING AND NOBODY IS BUYING IT SO COME BACK TO REALITY AND AWAY FROM YOUR DELUSIONS!

 

[Sami Smith]

Sleep well IAF... Sleep well netas...

 

[Sandeep]

The problem is that here in India, we have no concept of iterative development. The armed forces and the MoD all want the baby to start sprinting within a few days of birth.

For AMCA specifically, the PMO is to blame as the file for funding approval has been gathering dust for 2 years now.

You can't build a prototype if they haven't concluded negotiations for the F414 engines. Also if DRDO haven't developed the technology and equipment yet then how is the PMO to blame?