Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) News and Discussion

[Bhartiya Sainik]

It is very difficult to decipher some elements in the demo cockpit display. Those who play DCS, MSFS & other simulators might be able to guess better.

Top row:

> AP - Auto Pilot
> AHLD - Altitude Hold?
> ASEL - Altitude Select?
> FD - Flight Director?
> L | G ?
> AT - Auto Thrust?
-------------------------
> NAV - Navigation map/mode active?
> 0.35 206, 0.25 151 ?
> FUEL 2931, 2350 - remaining fuel.
> 027 degree ?
> 6090, 5080 - Altitude?
-------------------------
> SPOO1?
> RT1, RT2?
> VOR - VHF Omni-directional Range?
> TAC - Tactical air navigation?
> IFF M3 - Interogate Friend or Foe frequency select?
> M?
> DISP - Display options?
> 50X TR?
--------------------------
> 02 PKTS BULLS?
> 068 / 102 NM, 273 / X88 NM - may be navigation beacons bearing, distance.
> AMCA TAKE EASTERN PKT ??

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Multiple systems status

> 2 circles at top corners with 52, 17 - could be nozzle position open %.
> A/ICE - Engine Anti-ice heating OFF / AUTO.
> Vertical white scale & green bar, range 1-10, AB (After Burner), value 82%, 88% - Engine RPM %.
> Vertical yellow scale & greenbar, range 2-10, value 610, 671 - could be engine temperature.
> Small vertical white scale & green bar, range 0-200, FF value 31, 83 - could be Fuel Flow.
> REMN 2931 - Remaining Fuel?
> INT 2350 - Internal Fuel?
> BINGO 400 - Bingo Fuel mark.
But INT should be total & REMN should be less than that, right?
> HYD1, HYD2 280 BAR - Hydraulic pressure.
> DC 28.0 V, AC 114 V - Electricity.
> OIL 6.6, 6.9 BAR - Engine oil pressure.
> LPL, LPR ON - LP no idea, but on Left & right are ON.
> BPL, BPR - BP no idea, but on left & right.
May be LP, BP are pumps.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Navigation, Map display

> LOC - Localizer?
> DCN? - Display Contrast?
> DCL? - Display Color?
> SCL? - Symbols Color?
> DAN?
> FD?
> FPI?
> OVR? - Overlay?
> OBL?
> Lower left corner, blue color : ETA 11:30:55 - Estimated Time of Arrival at waypoint?
> Lower center, blue color : EF with some number - no idea
> Lower right corner, 096/3.42 NM, 058/2.4 NM - Waypoint bearing/distance?
> Top right corner, 6100, 4550 - Altitude?

 

[midnight]

Engine tech should've been done like China, un abashed copying which then took them to 5th gen quicker, where today they have squadrons of j-20s on the sikkim border and are saying they will get to 1000 aircraft very soon. Agreed their ws series isn't very advanced but they are getting there quickly. We should've followed them in copying everything.

 

[Radium]

AMCA Vs TFX Kaan Vs KF-21, top view, side view, front view, isometric/corner view, as per present state of designs.
Good AMCA diagrams are not yet available, even by CAD artists.
Turkey was given F110-GE-129 engine. India was offered F-16IN with F110-GE-132A engine. We can't go for older airframe designs but if the business was done for the engine then we could have designed a jet better than AMCA.

There is Chinese in the picture, you stole the picture of Chinese people, shameful!

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

There is Chinese in the picture, you stole the picture of Chinese people, shameful!

"Stole"?? ROFL! 😆That's a fan art, not some copyrighted thing with Patent.
This is a casual chat forum for discussion.
BTW, there is Indian AMCA in the picture. The creator stole AMCA depiction & didn't take permission.

@WebMaster , do we have a thread for comedy replies?😁

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Engine tech should've been done like China, un abashed copying which then took them to 5th gen quicker, where today they have squadrons of j-20s on the sikkim border and are saying they will get to 1000 aircraft very soon. Agreed their ws series isn't very advanced but they are getting there quickly. We should've followed them in copying everything.

Our people just assume that diplomatic talks will avoid war forever, but in this century there will be a big multi-front war & our people will learn lesson very bad way.

 

[manov7]

National importance? What is that? We are happy with upgrading Tejas to mk2. We will put huge fund in mk2 and enjoy by cheating government.

in order for the country to progress It's important to prioritize long-term goals over shortcuts. With real determination and appropriate funding, the development of Tejas Mk2 can greatly enhance national security and innovation. sso id

 

[midnight]

Our people just assume that diplomatic talks will avoid war forever, but in this century there will be a big multi-front war & our people will learn lesson very bad way.

Also why not use Russian engines? I doubt they will say no for the latest Saturn engines for our AMCA and Tejas mk-1 & 2. I know they arnt as reliable as western engines but their thrust is more than enough for our fighter requirements.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Also why not use Russian engines? I doubt they will say no for the latest Saturn engines for our AMCA and Tejas mk-1 & 2. I know they arnt as reliable as western engines but their thrust is more than enough for our fighter requirements.

If you are talking about Isdelye-30/AL-51 then Russia won't give their latest development obviously but a protoype can do with AL-41 or even AL-31 also. Something is better than nothing.
AMCA is small for 2 AL-31/41 engines.
Tejas MK1 LCA is even smaller for AL-31/41.
Tejas MK2 MWF could have been designed for AL-31/41.
The joint venture is aimed to make our future engines but our future jets are not really futuristic 😁 😆

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

There is an unofficial tweet that AMCA will have 6 AAMs in IWB

https://twitter.com/x/status/1835167622419431752

He mentioned IDAX24 & ex-tarangshakti-2024. Do we have any official link confirming 6 AAMs in IWB?

Some static models, CAD, infographic showcase Astr-Mk1 AAM with large fins. Clearly this version is not fit for IWB.

With a little tight fit, 2 SAAW bombs might fit in.
If Astr-1 are staggered then IWB needs to be elongated, but then also neither # of Astr-1 AAMs nor SAAW bombs increase.
Longer the fins of a weapon, longer is the IWB extension required.
If 2 Astr-1 AAMs are removed then total 8 SAAW bombs can be fitted.
W/o any AAMs, 12 SAAW bombs can be loaded.

Similar is the case with Astr-2 AAM with short fins.

There is another CAD online showing that only 4 Astr-2 AAMs or 8 SAAW bombs can fit in.
With little tight adjustment perhaps 2 folding-fin SAAW bombs can be pushed in with 4 Astr-2 AAMs, or 6 SAAW bombs with 2 Astr-2 AAMs.
Maximum 12 SAAW bombs might fit in. Staggering the AAMs would require lengthening the IWB little but that doesn't increase capacity.
If 4 AAMs & 4 SAAW bombs are arranged then it would require to lengthen the IWB more.
But 6 AAMs doesn't seem to fit in.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

There is an unofficial tweet that AMCA will have 6 AAMs in IWB

https://twitter.com/x/status/1835167622419431752

He mentioned IDAX24 & ex-tarangshakti-2024. Do we have any official link confirming 6 AAMs in IWB?

Some static models, CAD, infographic showcase Astr-Mk1 AAM with large fins. Clearly this version is not fit for IWB.




With a little tight fit, 2 SAAW bombs might fit in.
If Astr-1 are staggered then IWB needs to be elongated, but then also neither # of Astr-1 AAMs nor SAAW bombs increase.
Longer the fins of a weapon, longer is the IWB extension required.
If 2 Astr-1 AAMs are removed then total 8 SAAW bombs can be fitted.
W/o any AAMs, 12 SAAW bombs can be loaded.

Similar is the case with Astr-2 AAM with short fins.



There is another CAD online showing that only 4 Astr-2 AAMs or 8 SAAW bombs can fit in.
With little tight adjustment perhaps 2 folding-fin SAAW bombs can be pushed in with 4 Astr-2 AAMs, or 6 SAAW bombs with 2 Astr-2 AAMs.
Maximum 12 SAAW bombs might fit in. Staggering the AAMs would require lengthening the IWB little but that doesn't increase capacity.
If 4 AAMs & 4 SAAW bombs are arranged then it would require to lengthen the IWB more.
But 6 AAMs doesn't seem to fit in.

If AMCA's IWB can be widened & Astr-2 AAMs staggered then similar to F-22, 6 Astr-2 AAMs can fit.
In A-G only mode, it may allow total 16 SAAW bombs.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

There is a perpendicular bottom view CAD available for Astr-1 in IWB of AMCA

And there is one for Meteor or Astr-3 SFDR but angled, not clear.

If someone has a perpendicular bottom view for Astr-2 or Meteor/Astr-3 SFDR then kindly share, Thanks.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

If AMCA's IWB can be widened & Astr-2 AAMs staggered then similar to F-22, 6 Astr-2 AAMs can fit.
In A-G only mode, it may allow total 16 SAAW bombs.

In persuit of improvements, there might be some good news.
The unofficial tweet might be true. I lately got an infographic showing AMCA's IWB dimensions to be 4.2m long, 2.2m wide, 0.75m height. The dimension is not mentioned in many other posters.

The Astr-1,2,3 AAMs have same length 3.84m. But unfortunately due to big fins of Astr-1, even staggering doesn't help to fit 3 AAMs/bay, total of 6.
But the Astr-2 with shorter fins can easily fit with staggering.
Bcoz of limited info coming out gradually, the older CADs couldn't show the actual weapons capacity. If we superimpose the actual IWB dimensions to match with Astr-1,2 AAMs then we can see the difference.

In latest CAD by artist Kuntal Biswas, the IWB seems to have been widened, although a bottom view with exact dimensions & capacity is not available yet. The below pic is 2.5 months old now but nobody posted.

More good news will come gradually.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

In persuit of improvements, there might be some good news.
The unofficial tweet might be true. I lately got an infographic showing AMCA's IWB dimensions to be 4.2m long, 2.2m wide, 0.75m height. The dimension is not mentioned in many other posters.



The Astr-1,2,3 AAMs have same length 3.84m. But unfortunately due to big fins of Astr-1, even staggering doesn't help to fit 3 AAMs/bay, total of 6.
But the Astr-2 with shorter fins can easily fit with staggering.
Bcoz of limited info coming out gradually, the older CADs couldn't show the actual weapons capacity. If we superimpose the actual IWB dimensions to match with Astr-1,2 AAMs then we can see the difference.




In latest CAD by artist Kuntal Biswas, the IWB seems to have been widened, although a bottom view with exact dimensions & capacity is not available yet. The below pic is 2.5 months old now but nobody posted.



More good news will come gradually.

Fitting Ramjet missiles is a challenge bcoz of their long intakes, it becomes difficult to stagger them.
There is an early render by artist Kuntal Biswas of 2 Astr-3 SFDR /bay, total 4 AAMs, but pic is angled, the bay is short with big gap in between.

He has also made multiple CADs of Astr-3 SFDR BUT with different fin & ramjet intake dimensions.

The 3rd one is the only one with bottom view so if we resize it with IWB then still it will be a TIGHT UNSAFE fit of 3 staggered AAMs/bay.
And if we consider 3 staggered Meteors (AAM CAD by artist "AkelaFreedom") then although it is 6" shorter but its intakes & fins seem to be wider & overflows out of bay.

Editing in MS Paint, Photoshop, etc can produce inaccurate errors.
It is best accurate if the artists themselves produce this kind of images. But most of them don't.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

News channels & elsewhere people are talking abot MRFA & only 2 final candidates - Su-57 Vs F-35.
While F-35 would be the most tempting honey trap so far, the Su-57 is under fire too not seen as proper full 5gen stealth. There are many things which can be learnt from current 5gen jets. Some of us are also concerned that it may impact AMCA program. The following is a brief comparison. The "possible" features have to be TIMELY implemented expecially when global tech evolution is at 6gen R&D level.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Fitting Ramjet missiles is a challenge bcoz of their long intakes, it becomes difficult to stagger them.
There is an early render by artist Kuntal Biswas of 2 Astr-3 SFDR /bay, total 4 AAMs, but pic is angled, the bay is short with big gap in between.


He has also made multiple CADs of Astr-3 SFDR BUT with different fin & ramjet intake dimensions.

The 3rd one is the only one with bottom view so if we resize it with IWB then still it will be a TIGHT UNSAFE fit of 3 staggered AAMs/bay.
And if we consider 3 staggered Meteors (AAM CAD by artist "AkelaFreedom") then although it is 6" shorter but its intakes & fins seem to be wider & overflows out of bay.



Editing in MS Paint, Photoshop, etc can produce inaccurate errors.
It is best accurate if the artists themselves produce this kind of images. But most of them don't.

If the Ramjet intake is shortened then 6 Astr-3 SFDR AAMs might fit relatively better. But there could be military safety specs which may or may not allow this.

We see Akash-1 SAM also has Ramjets which don't extend all the way backwards.

The intake fairing in Meteor is long bcoz it houses some electronics, fin actuators. Same could be with Astr-3 SFDR. But if the AAM body can be adjusted then it can favor AMCA.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

If the Ramjet intake is shortened then 6 Astr-3 SFDR AAMs might fit relatively better. But there could be military safety specs which may or may not allow this.


We see Akash-1 SAM also has Ramjets which don't extend all the way backwards.


The intake fairing in Meteor is long bcoz it houses some electronics, fin actuators. Same could be with Astr-3 SFDR. But if the AAM body can be adjusted then it can favor AMCA.

Continuing on this agenda of internal load, 2 days back someone shared PL-15E AAM with folding fins from Zhuai airshow. AFAIK big/heavy missile do have folding fins but a medium missile is yet to be seen with AIM-120 AMRAAM, Meteor, etc. R-77 have folding grid fins.

Now there is no CAD of Meteor, Astr-3 SFDR with folding fins & i can't use PL-15E to depict in AMCA. So i'm just clipping the fins in SFDR pic. IDK the safety gap spec but this looks like a safe fit, that too w/o staggering.

And i had already shown that 6 staggered AAMs of short fin version of Astr-2 could easily fit. So if we use folding fin version of it now then total 8 staggered AAMs or 16 SAAW bombs could fit. The ejectors shoud be firm & free from vibrations.

If this config is considered unsafe then in worst case 6 AAMs or 12 SAAW bombs can fit easily.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

IWB versions of ARMs (Anti Radiation Missiles):
Kh-58UShKE, 650 Kg, 4.2-4.8m long, 380-400 mm diameter, 149 Kg warhead, 250 Km range, Mach 3.6
AGM-88G AARGM-ER, 467 Kg, 13'4/4.06m long, 292mm diameter, 68 Kg warhead, 300 Km range, Mach 2.9
But Rudram-1 cannot fit in AMCA'a IWB.
Rudram-1, 600 Kg, 18'/5.5m long, 340+/-mm diameter, 55 Kg warhead, 150-200 Km range, Mach 2
Rudram-2 & 3 are going to be even bigger.
If DoD makes IWB version of Rudram, it will make AMCA a dangerous SAM hunter.
There were Ramjet version missiles tested earlier but AARGM-ER uses modified solid fuel rocket motor.