IAF Remains Committed to AMCA, Not Considering Su-57 Based FGFA Revival

Former Indian Air Force (IAF) Marshal Anil Chopra's recent suggestion to revisit the Sukhoi/HAL Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) program has ignited discussions within the defence community. However, credible sources within the industry have confirmed that there are no plans to reconsider the FGFA program for procurement.

Experts reiterate that India's decision to withdraw from the FGFA program, which was based on the Russian Su-57 platform, was justified due to significant technical shortcomings. The FGFA reportedly failed to meet several critical requirements, exhibiting deficiencies not expected in a fifth-generation fighter aircraft.

The program's escalating costs were another major deterrent. Developing a two-seater FGFA variant could have potentially doubled the per-unit cost compared to the Su-30MKI, which is estimated to be around $70 million.

Moreover, customizing the FGFA for India's specific needs was projected to require an investment of $5 billion, significantly exceeding the $2 billion allocated for the recently approved Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) program.

While India did incur sunk costs during the initial stages of the FGFA program, experts believe that these expenses are relatively minor compared to the potential financial burden of continuing a program that might not have met the IAF's operational requirements.

The Indian aerospace industry's focus is now firmly on the indigenous AMCA program. With a development budget of $2 billion, the AMCA represents a more cost-effective and strategically independent path for the IAF's future fighter fleet.

 

[Pink Panther]

AMCA 6gen would be impossible, just join a already group or develop a different AMCA that is not from 5gen project

Then we get 0 TOT or have to shed billions of dollars for not so great TOT, for an example on TEmpest program each partner brings something to the table and their share on the product depends on what tech they bring, in our case we are still only 60% on 4th gen tech, so they won’t consider us as equal partner and will only try to milk us as not offer any valuable TOT, this is why we should start from a barebone 5th gen and go from there, in this case FGFA seems like a good option.

 

[Pad UwU]

FGFA is larger than AMCA.

It can compliment su30mki.... My opinion in AMCA is very low because of many false promises and neverending specs revision

 

[Pink Panther]

My enthusiasm on AMCA neverending specs revision is now on very low state😹😹😹...
i would rather go on working aircraft than waiting decades of promises

Absolutely, even something is better than nothing, according to original FGFA plan, we were supposed to make 45 improvements, including Indian AESA radar and others to the Russian SU-57 variant to meet our needs and to make it even more stealthier, now the latest variant SU-57 M has AL-51F1 stealth engine which reduces infrared signature with glass-fibre plastic IGVs and a new nozzle with serrated flaps offers even more stealth, after seeing Russian’s recently inducting this variant and actually using them in Ukraine , IAF folks might want to revive this project, Never ending specs revision always happens in Tejas or any other products that ISPU’s make.

 

[Sandeep]

India has cancelled the project and decided that we can develop it indigenously. We have to develop the prototype for the AMCA stealth jets as we need to run a lot of tests and trials which will take a number of years as well before production starts.

 

[Pink Panther]

It can compliment su30mki.... My opinion in AMCA is very low because of many false promises and neverending specs revision

AMCA is far far away, considering the the 40% content that we still import on a 4 th gen platform, realistically it will take minimum 20 years, FGFA is the only hope for us to start from somewhere , it can complement super Sukhoi, by the time we complete FGFA project, we will have enough confidence to work on AMCA.

 

[Pink Panther]

I don't see that would be a replacement.... Look at f22 and f35

FGFA and AMCA can both coexist like F22 and F35, there is recent talk of cancelling US NGAD 6th gen program due to cost, so F22 will be relevant for some more years, SU-75 and AMCA would have been even better.

 

[Pramkumar]

India should stop all the foreign imports and must invest in only MK1A, MK2, AMCA, TEDBF and ORCA (as replacement for 5th gen Su-30MKI) and invest the money on developing the infrastructure, Avionics, Engine, and other Technologies instead of begging with some countries.

 

[Pad UwU]

Then we get 0 TOT or have to shed billions of dollars for not so great TOT, for an example on TEmpest program each partner brings something to the table and their share on the product depends on what tech they bring, in our case we are still only 60% on 4th gen tech, so they won’t consider us as equal partner and will only try to milk us as not offer any valuable TOT, this is why we should start from a barebone 5th gen and go from there, in this case FGFA seems like a good option.

We can bring our own expertise in encrypted software are you not aware that most of our software engineers in Microsoft, Apple, Google and other big tech companies are India folks... We are the ones contributing the Tempest aircraft flight software and simulator if that happens... Don't downturn our own kinds bruh😉

 

[kumar]

When India produces 5th gen jets USA/China will have 7th gen jets.

 

[desigandu]

AMCA is far far away, considering the the 40% content that we still import on a 4 th gen platform, realistically it will take minimum 20 years, FGFA is the only hope for us to start from somewhere , it can complement super Sukhoi, by the time we complete FGFA project, we will have enough confidence to work on AMCA.

No russian mal - it is junk as we see as compared to what the Americans have…we will eventually get F-35s by 2030:, despite the S-400s…

 

[Pink Panther]

We can bring our own expertise in encrypted software are you not aware that most of our software engineers in Microsoft, Apple, Google and other big tech companies are India folks... We are the ones contributing the Tempest aircraft flight software and simulator if that happens... Don't downturn our own kinds bruh😉

We already have a very good digital fly by wire software for Tejas, we can further develop that to suit AMCA, but 5 th ben jet is not only software, there are much more like sensor fusion, diffrent kind of radars, stealthy engine, we have none of them, GE F414 is not a stealthy engine, it will emit a huge infrared signature.

 

[Pink Panther]

You tube videos saying that Rafale F4.2 is having same stealth RCS as SU57....

Russians are incrementally reducing RCS, in every variant they are increasing the stealth, their goal is to bring down the RCS to 0.1, their new engine added 30% more stealth compared to previous variant.

 

[Pad UwU]

We already have a very good digital fly by wire software for Tejas, we can further develop that to suit AMCA, but 5 th ben jet is not only software, there are much more like sensor fusion, diffrent kind of radars, stealthy engine, we have none of them, GE F414 is not a stealthy engine, it will emit a huge infrared signature.

I would love to see a parallel development of AMCA if we also jump in with Tempest 6gen project so the things we can learn from it would be possible to apply for AMCA as 5gen with 6gen system in it.... But the sad truth is we always bragging that our country is getting richer but we are cheaping out our budget and always backpedaling if the foreign partner ask technology transfer fee in a hefty price to sure we are seriously interested and would continuesly cooperating and partnering until we learn fully of their technology.... Until thenwe develop our own version of it so if they need parts and supply their old aircraft are compatible and can use our own new design design parts that are base on their technology

 

[Utopian]

To me one thing is clear. It all boils down to unprofessional myopic approach of india, whether its R&D, or its IAF or Indian army or its MOD. Our approach is always flawed by delays in decision making. Delay in funding. Abrupt funding cuts. Such a system can never be productive
at the end we end up buying crappy stuff at inflated prices. Making us biggest defence buyer of outdated weapons.

We need to fix our working process and methods first.
Accountability and Efficiency, both are missing badly.

 

[Pad UwU]

AMCA is far far away, considering the the 40% content that we still import on a 4 th gen platform, realistically it will take minimum 20 years, FGFA is the only hope for us to start from somewhere , it can complement super Sukhoi, by the time we complete FGFA project, we will have enough confidence to work on AMCA.

Yeah if AMCA doesn't show us the hype FGFA is the real solutions we need if we want a real democractic decision

 

[Pad UwU]

No russian mal - it is junk as we see as compared to what the Americans have…we will eventually get F-35s by 2030:, despite the S-400s…

Your still believing that US will offer f35😹😹😹😹

 

[Pad UwU]

I think it was a very prophetic decision for the IAF and India to abandon the PAF-FA project back in 2018 as things have only gotten worse for that project and the Russians in general.One way or other,Russians lacked precise manufacturing and metallurgical sophistication required for very low stealth jet,sufficiently powerful yet efficient/low visibility engine and it's associated nozzels/inlets and of course the latest avionics and weaponry that needs to accompany a Sleath fighter.Not to mention,even if that design was matured enough and production went ahead,I doubt that the Russians would be able support their Felon fleet smoothly with appropriate spares and maintenance support let alone and Indian Su-57 fleet.
Besides it's complete absence from the war in Ukraine only points to its many shortcomings and lack of faith by the Russians in their own design.

How can you say they are lack of precision manufacturing of aircraft when we are the one's who's begging to get fully 100% of ToT's but cheaping out the fund.... If we got disagree with foreign countries company's offer we just disqualify them and make reasons 😹😹😹

 

[PKPRS]

I would love to see a parallel development of AMCA if we also jump in with Tempest 6gen project so the things we can learn from it would be possible to apply for AMCA as 5gen with 6gen system in it.... But the sad truth is we always bragging that our country is getting richer but we are cheaping out our budget and always backpedaling if the foreign partner ask technology transfer fee in a hefty price to sure we are seriously interested and would continuesly cooperating and partnering until we learn fully of their technology.... Until thenwe develop our own version of it so if they need parts and supply their old aircraft are compatible and can use our own new design design parts that are base on their technology

May be we can share some of the components between FGFA and AMCA, I don’t how it is going to be possible when our HAL is stuggling to deliver a 4th gen jet that has basic tech on tiime.

 

[PKPRS]

No russian mal - it is junk as we see as compared to what the Americans have…we will eventually get F-35s by 2030:, despite the S-400s…

With 5 S-400 next year, and even more that we are going to add by making locally, No way, it is impossible.

 

[PKPRS]

Indian-Govt & Military should consider to cancel MRFA & instead invest in:-
(1) Additional 18 Rafale jets for IAF
(2) At least 24 Rafale jets for IN

At the same time, encourage IAF & IN to form a JV to invest in:-
(1) TEDBF (ORCA)
(2) AMCA

That's the only logical option available as rest of the option are way too costly & won't be able to support long term logistical synergy & Economy of Scales.

Why waste more money on Rafale, instead we could invest that money on ORCA.