India Seeks Localized Supply Chain for GE F404 Engines to Mitigate Delays and Boost Tejas Mk1A Deliveries

Following delays in the delivery of F404 engines from GE Aerospace, the Indian government is exploring strategies to localize the supply chain for this critical component of the Tejas Mk1A fighter jet program. With the Indian Air Force (IAF) set to induct nearly 180 Tejas Mk1A aircraft, ensuring a reliable and timely supply of engines is paramount.

The IAF's ambitious plan to bolster its fleet with the indigenously developed Tejas Mk1A has hit a snag due to recent delays in F404 engine deliveries. This has raised concerns about the long-term viability of relying solely on GE's existing global supply chain, especially given the IAF's projected need for these engines over the next four decades.

In line with India's push for self-reliance in defence production under the 'Aatmanirbhar Bharat' initiative, the government is looking to establish a localized supply chain for the F404 engines. This move aims to minimize the impact of global disruptions and ensure a steady flow of engines to support the expanding Tejas fleet.

The Ministry of Defence (MoD) is expected to propose that GE Aerospace transfer a portion of its F404 component manufacturing to Indian defence companies. This would involve creating a local ecosystem for the production of high-precision parts and assemblies, potentially leading to reduced lead times, lower costs, and a boost to India's aerospace manufacturing capabilities.

Key elements of this proposed initiative include:

• Workforce Training: Providing Indian engineers and technicians with the specialized training necessary to manufacture and assemble F404 engine components.
• Localized Component Production: Forging partnerships with Indian defence companies to manufacture critical F404 components within India.
• Technology Transfer: Facilitating the transfer of technology and knowledge to Indian companies to ensure adherence to stringent aerospace manufacturing standards.

In addition to bolstering local manufacturing, the IAF is also planning to establish a private sector-led Maintenance, Repair, and Overhaul (MRO) ecosystem for the F404 engines in India. This would ensure long-term support for the Tejas Mk1A fleet, reducing dependence on overseas facilities and minimizing aircraft downtime.

This potential collaboration with GE Aerospace could serve as a model for future partnerships in India's defence sector. A successful localized supply chain and MRO setup for the F404 engine could pave the way for similar initiatives for advanced engine programs, such as the F-414 engine intended for the Tejas MkII and Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

 

[Anuj]

Go for complete license manufacturing or Tot since we are industing tejas in big numbers.

 

[Dredd]

And they are realising this 4 years after signing the contract for 99 engines and 20 years after finalising F404 as a sole engine platform for Tejas Mk1.

 

[NSR]

Not good enough move as India intend to make at least 200+ Tejas IAs for IAF and some for exports.
So it needs at least 400 to 600 F-404s over these fighters life times.

India must go for complete manufacture of GE F-404IN20 under license similar to that of 80% TOT deal India got for the more powerful F-414INS6 engine.

Doing so India gets technology and know-how for manufacturing a reliable fighter engine and gets it closer to make a successful Kaveri derivative engine with good performance for its Tejas IAs and possibly F-414 for Tejas Mk IIs and other fighters too.
India can order same machinery, tools, and test equipment to produce quality and reliable Kaveri derivative engines.

Status quo is not acceptable at all.

 

[Anant]

Go for complete license manufacturing or Tot since we are industing tejas in big numbers.

Inducting large numbers of the Tejas isn't an automatic pass to get ToT or local manufacturing of the engine. A lot of nations have truly massive numbers of US fighters, and they haven't got any of those things.

 

[Chinese eater]

If India is the largest buyer of GE 404 then India must demand local assembly and supply chain in India.

 

[M S Chatterji]

Unlikely to happen. Private sector will need a huge upgrade to buy new machine tools, license, metallurgy and training. GE is unlikely to oblige.

 

[Mridul baruah]

Another example of poor planning. These should have been done the moment project was initiated with the GE404 engine. Some blame goes to IAF also for not committing a certain number....but they had to be cautous considering the precious track records of the PSUs involved.

 

[PARASHURAM]

It depends on What GE can offer. America always protect critical technology. It is interesting see response. Still i personally believe we should review kaveri engine program.

 

[Andy]

It depends on What GE can offer. America always protect critical technology. It is interesting see response. Still i personally believe we should review kaveri engine program.

404 is not critical tech anymore. If they can agree for 414, they can easily agree on 404 as well.

 

[Muthukumar Ponnambalam]

YEAH RIGHT. AS IF GE IS GOING TO INSTANTLY AGREE TO THAT AND BEGIN ITS INDIAN SUPPLY CHAIN NETWORK TOMORROW ITSELF.

 

[Akshat]

Another example of poor planning. These should have been done the moment project was initiated with the GE404 engine. Some blame goes to IAF also for not committing a certain number....but they had to be cautous considering the precious track records of the PSUs involved.

It’s not poor planning but poor delivery from ADA and HAL. IAF wanted LCA in the 90s, and that was with Kaveri. They had said they want only 40 LCA mk1 and 200 mk2 in 2005. But then more delays happened and mk1a was just a stop gap. So the need for F404 was never there and IAF didn’t commit to bigger numbers. But this move by the IITian RM doomed IAF as they neither got Mk1a, not mk2. hAL and ADA got an excuse to delay mk2 and start from scratch even after spending thousands of crores. The newer orders are again coming after it has become clear that we won’t be getting mk 2 in this decade or next.

 

[BCharlie]

And they are realising this 4 years after signing the contract for 99 engines and 20 years after finalising F404 as a sole engine platform for Tejas Mk1.

Now after & if we get license to do so in next 3-5 yrs and then it will take another 10 years to line up localized supply chain..

 

[BCharlie]

YEAH RIGHT. AS IF GE IS GOING TO INSTANTLY AGREE TO THAT AND BEGIN ITS INDIAN SUPPLY CHAIN NETWORK TOMORROW ITSELF.

Actually we are talking 12-15 years project to develop local supply chain meeting GE standards & quality control.

 

[Rinku Pandey]

Inducting large numbers of the Tejas isn't an automatic pass to get ToT or local manufacturing of the engine. A lot of nations have truly massive numbers of US fighters, and they haven't got any of those things.

But now that Donaldji is Potus and his close friendship with Modiji, anything is possible. 100% of ToT for F414 also.

 

[beencensured]

And they are realising this 4 years after signing the contract for 99 engines and 20 years after finalising F404 as a sole engine platform for Tejas Mk1.

Test the kaveri on Tejas lsp without delay. Why put trojans like in gef404 engine that recently went off so America could swing the Argentina deal for f16 and deny Tejas perfect record.

 

[Aravind Raveendran]

Now this is a genuine demand which we should have made earlier. We must use whatever influence we have over POTUS and get things done our way. How can we know unless we try.
meanwhile we must use whatever knowledge we gain from these efforts into making our own kaveri 2.0

 

[RG]

GE can produce both F404 and F414 with increasing local content to benefit from this opportunity. Local Manufacturing and availability can spurr additional products who knows.

 

[PKPRS]

But now that Donaldji is Potus and his close friendship with Modiji, anything is possible. 100% of ToT for F414 also.

Absolutely not, US is not run 100% by President, it is run like a corporate, President has very less power, though they veto they only use it in extreme scenario, it is mostly Pentagon and senate that decides, It is not like GOI and M0di, UK is the only Country in the World they give access to classified tech.

 

[Anant]

Test the kaveri on Tejas lsp without delay. Why put trojans like in gef404 engine that recently went off so America could swing the Argentina deal for f16 and deny Tejas perfect record.

The Kaveri cannot be directly tested on a Tejas LSP until it is certified for single-engine operations. It'll first be tested on a twin-engined fighter, and will then be integrated with the Tejas.

 

[Anant]

But now that Donaldji is Potus and his close friendship with Modiji, anything is possible. 100% of ToT for F414 also.

Consider that the US didn't offer that the first time he was around. If anything, our relations are more strained now (thanks to the CIA and Canadistan), so I don't see any changes on that front now.

 

[Anant]

If India is the largest buyer of GE 404 then India must demand local assembly and supply chain in India.

India won't be the largest F404 buyer. Look up the Boeing-Saab T-7.

 

[bonito]

Great at last some sense prevail. Upgrading education is priority. Creating environment to get exposed to niche technology is govt duty. If not for 404 the strategy will help in long runs.

Preparedness is fine, but the inference is frightening. Does that mean f404 supply is a pertinent issue forever? Did GE agree to local manufacturing?

 

[bonito]

404 is not critical tech anymore. If they can agree for 414, they can easily agree on 404 as well.

They still didn't agree on 414

 

[Sandeep]

It would be ideal if we make another deal with GE to manufacture the F404 under licence in India by transferring the highest amount of technology to us and manufacture as much as possible in India. This will reduce the supply chain issues faced by GE, reduces the costs and help setup an ecosystem and grow our businesses in India.

 

[AK S]

It’s not poor planning but poor delivery from ADA and HAL. IAF wanted LCA in the 90s, and that was with Kaveri. They had said they want only 40 LCA mk1 and 200 mk2 in 2005. But then more delays happened and mk1a was just a stop gap. So the need for F404 was never there and IAF didn’t commit to bigger numbers. But this move by the IITian RM doomed IAF as they neither got Mk1a, not mk2. hAL and ADA got an excuse to delay mk2 and start from scratch even after spending thousands of crores. The newer orders are again coming after it has become clear that we won’t be getting mk 2 in this decade or next.

In his world, HAL is responsible for engine and not IAF or MoD. Same thing goes for squadron strength. The fact remains, engine and squadron strength are the prime responsibility of the air defence planners and needs investment - can’t happen just like that. We have money for wasteful and inefficient activities but not for long tail. We put in $1.5b and gave 5 years to Dassault on India specific enhancements on 36 Rafale. Mirage upgrade is altogether on a different plane - $2.5B about 15 years back and counting - no BVR and AESA radar. Not even Astra. IAF wrote off $300m on FGFA. How much did we invest in Tejas Mk1A development or their assembly line or Kaveri. We reap what we sow.

Not that HAL shines out, it’s a DPSU delivering decent RoI.

 

[Kumar Krishnan]

Instead of the F414 ToT it is the F404 IN engine ToT that shud have been got done. A case of misplaced priorities.

 

[beencensured]

The Kaveri cannot be directly tested on a Tejas LSP until it is certified for single-engine operations. It'll first be tested on a twin-engined fighter, and will then be integrated with the Tejas.

New theory? But then f135 was used when throwing blades in f35.

 

[Anant]

New theory? But then f135 was used when throwing blades in f35.

Engines are first tested on multi-engine aircraft before being certified for testing in single-engine configuration. The idea is that if your engine fails in the early stages of testing, you have a backup engine to get back to base.

The Kaveri is not yet cleared for single engine operations. Even when the F135 was being tested initially, this was done on a commercial aircraft converted to a flying testbed and on a converted F-15 before being tested on a F-35.

 

[beencensured]

Engines are first tested on multi-engine aircraft before being certified for testing in single-engine configuration. The idea is that if your engine fails in the early stages of testing, you have a backup engine to get back to base.

Kaveri has been tested on Russian test bed, making more hurdles should not be an objective.