Su-35's High-Stakes Bid for India's Skies, Can It Outshine the Su-30MKI?

Russia's Su-35 fighter jet, a cutting-edge marvel of aviation technology, is making a bold bid to conquer Indian skies. This state-of-the-art aircraft, boasting a formidable arsenal and advanced avionics, is vying for a major contract with the Indian Air Force (IAF) under its multi-role fighter aircraft (MRFA) tender. But will it be enough to impress the IAF?

The Su-35, with its blistering speed of 2,500 km/h and an extensive range, is a technological powerhouse. Its diverse arsenal includes air-to-air and air-to-surface missiles, precision-guided weapons, and a 30mm cannon, making it a versatile asset in any combat scenario. The jet's phased array radar, capable of detecting targets from 100 km to 400 km, coupled with its advanced information and control system, ensures superior situational awareness for its pilots.

However, the Su-35 faces a formidable competitor—the IAF's existing fleet of Su-30MKI fighter jets, a customized variant of the Su-35 family designed specifically for India. Often referred to as the "Indian Super-30," these jets are already a force to be reckoned with. Upcoming upgrades could potentially elevate the Su-30MKI to one of the most advanced Flanker variants, raising questions about the necessity of acquiring the base model Su-35.

The Su-35's fate in India's skies ultimately hinges on a rigorous evaluation by the IAF. The decision will likely depend on a meticulous assessment of its capabilities, cost-effectiveness, and compatibility with the existing infrastructure and systems.

While the Su-35 boasts impressive specifications and capabilities, its success in securing the Indian contract is far from guaranteed. The IAF's final decision will be shaped by a complex interplay of technical, financial, and geopolitical considerations.

Will the Su-35's advanced features and versatility be enough to sway the IAF? Or will the existing Su-30MKI fleet and other competing options prove more appealing? Only time will tell.

 

[Akshat]

Uae buy 80 rafale at cost of 19 billion USD that was f4 without tot how much do you think 114 f5 rafale with tot will cost with our procurement budget for combine IAF + army and navy is 21 billion USD. In this budget spare parts + weapon system + support system is also included.

20k mahina kamane Wale iPhone ke sapne nahi dekhte. Budget is most important thing lene ko kuch bhi Lelo per paise bhi hone chahia.

Egypt bought their planes at 150 million usd for second tranche. Including weapons and stuff. We paid 120 million for just the plane for Su30 mki with Bars radar.

 

[Akshat]

Now, Rafale costs 300+ millions usd per jet for make in India by DRAL-Dassault! Just buy 114 nos. of F15EX jets now and add more later on; for a grand total of 226 nos. of F15EX jets- and PLAAF will be defeated easily; especially if Boeing-TASL can integrate Astra2-3 Meteor-NG and Rudraam-III AWACs killer missiles.

F15 costs well over 350 million without weapons off the shelf. 😂😂😂

 

[Akshat]

Russia is not China's vassal. They did authorize the sale of Brahmos to Ph to be used against China. Its a temporary marriage. They have the same BS with China that we are facing. China wants Vladivostok and created internal chaos there.

That’s why Russia officially said that India should have backed off from LAC and given its land to China? Directly from the government on record, not even some newspaper or think tank.

 

[SK]

Indian Govt should cancel the MRFA & opts to:-
(1) Buy additional 36 Rafale jets for IAF
(2) Encourage IAF & IN to form a JV to invest in : TEDBF (ORCA) & AMCA projects.

The more we invest in Indigenous systems the greater improvement will be seen in Indigenous technology, Scale of Economy & Export potential.

 

[Anant]

Su35 with old stocks of su30mki as super sukhois will be a good alternative than buying too much overprice 4gen if we are in budget crunch

And what makes you think the Su-35 will be cheap? The Su-35 is very different from the Su-30MKI in terms of subsystems and components. As it is, the baseline price is 83-ish million USD each (the price at which China bought them).

The Su-30MKI deal approved last year comes to some 110 million USD each. A new Su-35 deal would cost us significantly more very easily, not to mention would give us an older design style.

If you really wanted Su-35s, you may as well go for modernised Su-30MKIs instead.

 

[Sandeep]

Other than buying another 12 Sukhoi jets then India shouldn't buy anymore foreign jets at all. India needs to focus on its own indigenous jets with the Tejas MK1A and MK2 along with the AMCA jet. At the same time they need to upgrade our Sukhoi jets into the Super Sukhoi as quickly as possible as that will be using most of our indigenous equipment, parts, software and technology.

Also if the single engine stealth fighter Checkmate then we can also get 1-2 squadrons to boost our numbers and used for supporting our current number and type of jets if the technology and capabilities exist.

 

[Anant]

Geopolitical considerations will be important factor while selecting MRFA if ever it is materialised . Due to heavy Russian reliance on china ,any Russian aircraft will be excluded . Current hostile attitude of Five eyes (evils) alliance openly conspiring against our heroes like RAW chief ,NSA excludes all American origin fighters for foreseeable future. Bharat has only two options - one is French Rafales and another is cancellation of MRFA with all investment in indigenous jet engine and fighters.

Cancellation of MRFA isn't an option unless you want to significantly compromise squadron numbers.

 

[vikrant rao]

Su35 is history now…. It could be the better choice in 2010s…
Rafale is way ahead than Su35 technologically… additionally IAF can’t afford another heavy class fighter given limited budget…
I think Indian Air Force is waiting for F 35 to be offered in MRFA.

Who wants the F35 with all the baggage of terms and conditions that come along with any US deal? Look at Turkiye and Japan and South Korea. Being made to jump through hoops and bend over backwards and sign long term deals with parent Lockheed - these guys are crooks! The US will simply hold India to ransom when India will have no choice but to do what it says.

Also, can anyone say where the the Rafale, F-35, F16 etc have been tested? None of the Western aircraft have been tested in real world conditions or against peer adversaries getting shot down by S-300s in Syria but no media will talk about it and Israel recently junking Patriot in favour of their own Iron Dome- the US capabilities are exaggerated. Whereas India atleast has a reliable and trustworthy supplier in the Russians and understands the Su platforms to customise them quickly with more modern 'make in india' variants. The F-404 engine deal is a joke designed to restrict India the just the F404 and progress no further given the number of technical limitations set on the engine use and supply. US treats Indians like kings during negotiations but when it comes to finer details treats them like beggars. In the meantime the US is drawing India into its orbit of constant wars and conflicts while it sits comfortably far away protected by 10,000km of ocean on both sides! India must not become a Taiwan or Ukraine pawn bec the Americans dangle carrots. The long term costs far outweigh the consequences of war participation.

As Kissinger said, "to be an enemy of the US is dangerous but to be a friend is lethal".

 

[Anant]

Indian Govt should cancel the MRFA & opts to:-
(1) Buy additional 36 Rafale jets for IAF
(2) Encourage IAF & IN to form a JV to invest in : TEDBF (ORCA) & AMCA projects.

The more we invest in Indigenous systems the greater improvement will be seen in Indigenous technology, Scale of Economy & Export potential.

In order to maintain squadron numbers, MRFA is a necessity.

 

[Anant]

Other than buying another 12 Sukhoi jets then India shouldn't buy anymore foreign jets at all. India needs to focus on its own indigenous jets with the Tejas MK1A and MK2 along with the AMCA jet. At the same time they need to upgrade our Sukhoi jets into the Super Sukhoi as quickly as possible as that will be using most of our indigenous equipment, parts, software and technology.

Also if the single engine stealth fighter Checkmate then we can also get 1-2 squadrons to boost our numbers and used for supporting our current number and type of jets if the technology and capabilities exist.

Simply put, unless you want the IAF to face a massive crisis of the number of available squadrons, then MRFA is a necessity. Not necessarily qualitatively, but certainly so quantitatively.

Oh, and you are advocating buying a few squadrons of the Su-75 (a plane that doesn't exist and quite probably never will) right after you advocate no more foreign purchases? Make up your mind.

Also, why on Earth would you want to complicate maintenance again by bringing in yet another aircraft type?

 

[Anant]

We have run out combat squadrons. We desperately need combat aircraft. HAL aircraft will come late and are not tried and tested ones. How do we fill in the gap ? Intermediate purchase makes sense. But what need to keep in mind is tech availability and continuity in the type of aircraft. It makes logistical sense. Therefore its prudent to go in for SU 35. Its a good ac equipped with long range Air to Air weapons it can do wonders. The next bet is the Rafael ...we alread have 36 and to continue the line makes sense. We have to be vary of buying from the Yanks, they shift goal posts once they are finished with you.

The Su-35 is not a viable candidate for MRFA. It is very different than the Su-30MKI. The latter is already a bridge between the standard Symu-30 and the Su-35. Not to mention that it isn't particulate cheaper.

At this point, when it comes to MRFA, we should just write off the Su-35 and MiG-35.

 

[Anant]

India should fast track the su-30 upgrades and maybe procure used su-30 from the users like Malaysia etc to increase squadron strength rather than buy brand new su-30 which has little impact in the modern day(old design ,rcs ).against modern day fighter like rafale or typhoons if it wins mrfa competition. What india should consider is either design a more powerfull engine or go for a more modern engine(improved al41)for su-30 with Russia if possible.

Not happening. The Su-30MKI is very different than other Su-30 variants, and modifying those to the MKI standard would be fairly expensive. Moreover, no Su-30 operator is selling Su-30s yet, since the type isn't that old.

 

[shivkumar sinha]

Cancellation of MRFA isn't an option unless you want to significantly compromise squadron numbers.

The way American deep state is trying to discredit current Indian dispensation and going to the extent to undermine RAW chief and NSA, I think either state department will tone down after election or GoI will have to wait till US general election in November hoping some change of policies. If both doesn't happen , Bharat may have to rethink on current acquisitions plan that may result even in cancellation of MQ-9 and GE engine. In that situation MRFA for 114 Rafales will become urgent with possibly further orders until our Kaveri -2 becomes operational for Tejas mark-1A and SAFRAN -GTRE jet engine of 110-130 KN class is produced here in Bharat .

 

[Bhishma]

That’s why Russia officially said that India should have backed off from LAC and given its land to China? Directly from the government on record, not even some newspaper or think tank.

Do you have source for this ?

 

[Akshat]

Do you have source for this ?

It was broadcasted everywhere. You can google Lavrov’s comments. He openly said this.

 

[Bhishma]

It was broadcasted everywhere. You can google Lavrov’s comments. He openly said this.

its not there, nothing. do you have any link ?

 

[Akshat]

its not there, nothing. do you have any link ?

Tell me, did you even look? Did you find any comments at all? Let’s see how much how much effort you put in before coming back here.

 

[Agent Provocateur1]

If Su-35 is selected the only benefits will be time and costs. I am not advocating for it but thinking hypothetically. The Su-35 will be cheaper than the alternatives and we can easily use the Sukhoi factory in India. Our vast experience in Sukhoi production will allow us to simply start with a 50% indigenously content and rapidly expand it. Not only that but we can also include many of the same hardware from the Super Sukhoi upgrade. For Al-41 we can also get a deal possibly better than the F414 as instead of 400 units, taking into account all the Su-30s and a single lifetime engine change for all Su-35s we will need 800 engines so a massive ToT would make sense. But Ukraine war, Swift lockout makes it impossible.

The CAG report clearly exposed this lie about SU 30 assembled in India. It costs us Rupees 100 Crore more per unit to assemble in India. On top of it. What about sanctions, have you thought about it? Our trade with USA alone is $100 Billion. This is the money we use to buy Military hardware. Buying energy is one thing, but Military Hardware will attract sanctions.

SU 35 is out of the race already.

 

[Pink Panther]

Super sukhoi programme already going ,it less chance of Su-35 to win IAF can go for Higher Thrust Engine AL-41 for Super Sukhoi upgrade . Ithink if Russia offers Su-57 instead of Su-35 will make IAF think . AMCA even if inducted in 2035 will not b mature platform . Su-57 has Good chance to win if offered in MRFA . Under make in India. with Heavy weapon package.with Air Launch UAV(S-70 okhotnik ) will enhance its capabilities .

Even SU-75 made in India to India and the World like Brahmos would be much better, can call it VOLGAN 57,
Volga-Ganges,

we should rather replace AL-31F1’s with izdeliye 30 stealth engines, can use the same engine 108 KN dry thrust and 166Kn wet thrust for Tejas MK2.

 

[Pink Panther]

If Su-35 is selected the only benefits will be time and costs. I am not advocating for it but thinking hypothetically. The Su-35 will be cheaper than the alternatives and we can easily use the Sukhoi factory in India. Our vast experience in Sukhoi production will allow us to simply start with a 50% indigenously content and rapidly expand it. Not only that but we can also include many of the same hardware from the Super Sukhoi upgrade. For Al-41 we can also get a deal possibly better than the F414 as instead of 400 units, taking into account all the Su-30s and a single lifetime engine change for all Su-35s we will need 800 engines so a massive ToT would make sense. But Ukraine war, Swift lockout makes it impossible.

time and cost are the essence, but we will have too many 4.5 gen heavy aircrafts.

 

[Mike]

This issue has been improved a bit in the Su-35 although nowhere nearly as the Western aircraft.

True it's avionics cannot track or target the F-35 or the F-22 . The F-18 can jam the Su-35 , so can the F-15ex

 

[Vijesh]

Even SU-75 made in India to India and the World like Brahmos would be much better, can call it VOLGAN 57,
Volga-Ganges,

we should rather replace AL-31F1’s with izdeliye 30 stealth engines, can use the same engine 108 KN dry thrust and 166Kn wet thrust for Tejas MK2.

I think that is the best option, it won’t impact Super SU-30 or Tejas-MK2 or AMCA with especially AL-51F1 stealth engine.

 

[Sandeep]

Simply put, unless you want the IAF to face a massive crisis of the number of available squadrons, then MRFA is a necessity. Not necessarily qualitatively, but certainly so quantitatively.

Oh, and you are advocating buying a few squadrons of the Su-75 (a plane that doesn't exist and quite probably never will) right after you advocate no more foreign purchases? Make up your mind.

Also, why on Earth would you want to complicate maintenance again by bringing in yet another aircraft type?

The number of squadrons we should have is old and outdated and was made decades ago. That figure came about because each jet only had one specific role and it was either a bomber or air superiority fighter but now we have multi role fighters. We have retired a number of old jets and more will be retired.

So if we only want our air force to just defend indian skies then we have fighter jets and we have a lot of SAM. To defend our skies it can be done by SAM which are always armed and ready 24/7 and fighter jets to support it as well. So our air force isn’t entirely useless and it can defend our skies.

What we lack are the requisite number of jets that we need if we wanted to launch a full attack in a war. So for defence we are good but to attack we are bad against China. Against Pakistan we can rip them apart.

So we do need more fighter jets but MRFA isn’t the answer. Most likely we would want Rafale as a winner which will cost over $25 billion which we do not have even if it’s made in India. We also won’t get any significant or critical technology from it which is what we want like radar, engine, EW, IRST/EOIR, key sensors, jets computer etc. Instead it will even be more expensive to make the jets here than just importing it directly. This will be the same problem with any country or jet we want to buy.

India won’t buy any foreign jet anymore as once the Tejas 2 starts flying then the MRFA competition is gone. We did the same with the single engine fighter competition as we scrapped it the moment Tejas started flying. Also the MRFA requirement hasn’t even been published and it’s been dragging on despite having the ability to quickly conclude what technology we want the jet to have and it wouldn’t take years.

India needs more Tejas MK1A and MK2 along with the AMCA. Tejas 2 will fly next year so that will add to our fire power. We also will be receiving some Tejas MK1A orders by then which will help although we need more. Also we are upgrading our Sukhoi jets into Super Sukhoi which will add to our fire power and that’s not cheap either. So if you look at the large number of orders we want from trainer, intermediate trainer, HLFT42, Tejas 1, Tejas 2, AMCA, Prachand, Dhruv, LUH, MR-SAM, Akash etc the order is very big and very expensive which is why we can’t afford a foreign fighter.

 

[मित्र]

SU-35s, SU-57s, and any further S-400s armaments are considered to be new acquisition and falls under the stringent CAATSA law rules.
It is very difficult to acquire and pay for those systems as the dollar is the king of trading currency..
India is already having terrible difficulty paying for oil too.

India can buy 12 SU-30MKIs and 21 Mig-29s without incurring any sanctions.

Furthermore, President Putin is visiting crimnal china this month and Russia practically turned over to china as a vassal state.
It is best to build out own fighters at a faster clip.

Some things surely going to happen soon.

Thats an absurd argument that due to western sanctions we cant buy Russian item. Fcuk american sanctions.
If we need something we should buy it and do not think of sanctions.

 

[मित्र]

Uae buy 80 rafale at cost of 19 billion USD that was f4 without tot how much do you think 114 f5 rafale with tot will cost with our procurement budget for combine IAF + army and navy is 21 billion USD. In this budget spare parts + weapon system + support system is also included.

20k mahina kamane Wale iPhone ke sapne nahi dekhte. Budget is most important thing lene ko kuch bhi Lelo per paise bhi hone chahia.

Correct, also time is important here, even made in india rafale will take time to start produce.
Importing is impossible.

 

[Bhishma]

Tell me, did you even look? Did you find any comments at all? Let’s see how much how much effort you put in before coming back here.

i've looked enough. cant find $hit. perhaps you are spreading misinformation and backing off when confronted ? if what you say existed, i should have been able to find in 2 min. i spent about 15min.

 

[Anant]

The number of squadrons we should have is old and outdated and was made decades ago. That figure came about because each jet only had one specific role and it was either a bomber or air superiority fighter but now we have multi role fighters. We have retired a number of old jets and more will be retired.

So if we only want our air force to just defend indian skies then we have fighter jets and we have a lot of SAM. To defend our skies it can be done by SAM which are always armed and ready 24/7 and fighter jets to support it as well. So our air force isn’t entirely useless and it can defend our skies.

What we lack are the requisite number of jets that we need if we wanted to launch a full attack in a war. So for defence we are good but to attack we are bad against China. Against Pakistan we can rip them apart.

So we do need more fighter jets but MRFA isn’t the answer. Most likely we would want Rafale as a winner which will cost over $25 billion which we do not have even if it’s made in India. We also won’t get any significant or critical technology from it which is what we want like radar, engine, EW, IRST/EOIR, key sensors, jets computer etc. Instead it will even be more expensive to make the jets here than just importing it directly. This will be the same problem with any country or jet we want to buy.

India won’t buy any foreign jet anymore as once the Tejas 2 starts flying then the MRFA competition is gone. We did the same with the single engine fighter competition as we scrapped it the moment Tejas started flying. Also the MRFA requirement hasn’t even been published and it’s been dragging on despite having the ability to quickly conclude what technology we want the jet to have and it wouldn’t take years.

India needs more Tejas MK1A and MK2 along with the AMCA. Tejas 2 will fly next year so that will add to our fire power. We also will be receiving some Tejas MK1A orders by then which will help although we need more. Also we are upgrading our Sukhoi jets into Super Sukhoi which will add to our fire power and that’s not cheap either. So if you look at the large number of orders we want from trainer, intermediate trainer, HLFT42, Tejas 1, Tejas 2, AMCA, Prachand, Dhruv, LUH, MR-SAM, Akash etc the order is very big and very expensive which is why we can’t afford a foreign fighter.

Just because you get the Tejas Mk was flying doesn't mean MRFA isn't a necessity. Need I remind you that the Tejas Mk 1 took almost 14 years between its first flight and induction? Also, there is a difference between the initial induction of an aircraft and the point where you have it in large numbers.

MRFA certainly won't be cheap, not by a country mile. However, it has become a necessity, and is something we will have to grit our teeth and move ahead with.

 

[Pink Panther]

1. Russia has not offered the Su-57 under MRFA. In any case, we really do not want an aircraft that is difficult to produce (just look at Russia's production of the same). If you are going to go through so much trouble, you could just as well try to get an aircraft that atleast doesn't pretend to be a 5th generation fighter.

2. The AL-41 has already been put aside for the Super Sukhoi upgrade program, primarily due to costs.

3. Do you really want to do a bunch of high-profile arms deals with Russia? They are increasingly going into China's camp, not to mention the bootload of sanctions on them and the problems it has already caused us with processing payments to them.

Russians will never go to China’s camp, they are business partners, when needed, that’s all, this is how they work from Soviet days, no friend or enemy relationship.

 

[Pink Panther]

And what makes you think the Su-35 will be cheap? The Su-35 is very different from the Su-30MKI in terms of subsystems and components. As it is, the baseline price is 83-ish million USD each (the price at which China bought them).

The Su-30MKI deal approved last year comes to some 110 million USD each. A new Su-35 deal would cost us significantly more very easily, not to mention would give us an older design style.

If you really wanted Su-35s, you may as well go for modernised Su-30MKIs instead.

it is still 1/3rd the price of another 4th gen aircraft Rafale, hence 1/3rd total acquisition cost, but it will be redundant after SU-30 upgrade, better to go with 5th gen aircraft instead of wasting money on obsolete 4th gen tech.

 

[Anant]

Russians will never go to China’s camp, they are business partners, when needed, that’s all, this is how they work from Soviet days, no friend or enemy relationship.

I am not saying they will become subservient to China. However, their dependence on China is increasing quite rapidly. Simply put, we have to take a much more neutral approach towards Russia moving forwards.