Su-35's High-Stakes Bid for India's Skies, Can It Outshine the Su-30MKI?

[Rajesh]

India should fast track the su-30 upgrades and maybe procure used su-30 from the users like Malaysia etc to increase squadron strength rather than buy brand new su-30 which has little impact in the modern day(old design ,rcs ).against modern day fighter like rafale or typhoons if it wins mrfa competition. What india should consider is either design a more powerfull engine or go for a more modern engine(improved al41)for su-30 with Russia if possible.

 

[NSR]

SU-35s, SU-57s, and any further S-400s armaments are considered to be new acquisition and falls under the stringent CAATSA law rules.
It is very difficult to acquire and pay for those systems as the dollar is the king of trading currency..
India is already having terrible difficulty paying for oil too.

India can buy 12 SU-30MKIs and 21 Mig-29s without incurring any sanctions.

Furthermore, President Putin is visiting crimnal china this month and Russia practically turned over to china as a vassal state.
It is best to build out own fighters at a faster clip.

Some things surely going to happen soon.

 

[JP Singh]

We have run out combat squadrons. We desperately need combat aircraft. HAL aircraft will come late and are not tried and tested ones. How do we fill in the gap ? Intermediate purchase makes sense. But what need to keep in mind is tech availability and continuity in the type of aircraft. It makes logistical sense. Therefore its prudent to go in for SU 35. Its a good ac equipped with long range Air to Air weapons it can do wonders. The next bet is the Rafael ...we alread have 36 and to continue the line makes sense. We have to be vary of buying from the Yanks, they shift goal posts once they are finished with you.

 

[Pad UwU]

1. Russia has not offered the Su-57 under MRFA. In any case, we really do not want an aircraft that is difficult to produce (just look at Russia's production of the same). If you are going to go through so much trouble, you could just as well try to get an aircraft that atleast doesn't pretend to be a 5th generation fighter.

2. The AL-41 has already been put aside for the Super Sukhoi upgrade program, primarily due to costs.

3. Do you really want to do a bunch of high-profile arms deals with Russia? They are increasingly going into China's camp, not to mention the bootload of sanctions on them and the problems it has already caused us with processing payments to them.

Su35 with old stocks of su30mki as super sukhois will be a good alternative than buying too much overprice 4gen if we are in budget crunch

 

[Pad UwU]

Su35 is history now…. It could be the better choice in 2010s…
Rafale is way ahead than Su35 technologically… additionally IAF can’t afford another heavy class fighter given limited budget…
I think Indian Air Force is waiting for F 35 to be offered in MRFA.

Keep dreaming 😹😹😹
If India want a f35 offering we will be force to give up our s400 for Ukraine and a massive funding needed to invest a f35 5gen facility plus dismantling the works of AMCA papers😹😹😹🙃

 

[Pad UwU]

India shall buy Al-41 engine from Russia to make super sukhois
India shall instead go for Semi stealth Su-57 as it will be cheaper during Russia-Ukraine war

We are being ask if India wanted it.but the government and air force are wasting time dilly dallying 😹😹😹
And waiting miracle to happen with HAL

 

[Pad UwU]

SU-35s, SU-57s, and any further S-400s armaments are considered to be new acquisition and falls under the stringent CAATSA law rules.
It is very difficult to acquire and pay for those systems as the dollar is the king of trading currency..
India is already having terrible difficulty paying for oil too.

India can buy 12 SU-30MKIs and 21 Mig-29s without incurring any sanctions.

Furthermore, President Putin is visiting crimnal china this month and Russia practically turned over to china as a vassal state.
It is best to build out own fighters at a faster clip.

Some things surely going to happen soon.

Kakakakak US and other western countries are also criminal in the eyes of some Slavs and Russian... It's normal to Russian and China doing business like we are doing business with Russian and American too... There's nothing wrong init

 

[Bhishma]

SU-35s, SU-57s, and any further S-400s armaments are considered to be new acquisition and falls under the stringent CAATSA law rules.
It is very difficult to acquire and pay for those systems as the dollar is the king of trading currency..
India is already having terrible difficulty paying for oil too.

India can buy 12 SU-30MKIs and 21 Mig-29s without incurring any sanctions.

Furthermore, President Putin is visiting crimnal china this month and Russia practically turned over to china as a vassal state.
It is best to build out own fighters at a faster clip.

Some things surely going to happen soon.

Russia is not China's vassal. They did authorize the sale of Brahmos to Ph to be used against China. Its a temporary marriage. They have the same BS with China that we are facing. China wants Vladivostok and created internal chaos there.

 

[Akshat]

India shall buy Al-41 engine from Russia to make super sukhois
India shall instead go for Semi stealth Su-57 as it will be cheaper during Russia-Ukraine war

Cheaper??? We were asked to pay 250 million dollars, plus 6 billion dollars in development costs, over 10 years ago. And that didn’t include any missiles or stuff. Imagine the costs now.

 

[Akshat]

Su35 makes much better sense due to cost to benefit ratio being rafale cost 250 million USD 100 million su35 surely give almost same capabilities + IAF use to of Sukhoi jets from past 24 years as well as years of experience of indigenous weapon integration on Russian plateform is added benefit + getting al 41 engine tech will help in super Sukhoi program which in turn helps in better maintenance of the jets.

100 million usd vs 250 million usd??? Kuch bhi?

Firstly, the deal for 12 Su30 mki in 2019 was pegged at 120 million per plane. That had no weapons, no additional ToT, no infrastructure, no training, nothing. Just the planes. Not even things like AESA radars and stuff.

On the other hand, Egypt paid 150 million ISD for Rafale’s second tranche. They had the infra, offsets, some weapons etc. Not to mention that Rafale kicked Su35’s rear. So a better plane for a lower cost…sounds like a deal.

 

[Akshat]

Uae buy 80 rafale at cost of 19 billion USD that was f4 without tot how much do you think 114 f5 rafale with tot will cost with our procurement budget for combine IAF + army and navy is 21 billion USD. In this budget spare parts + weapon system + support system is also included.

20k mahina kamane Wale iPhone ke sapne nahi dekhte. Budget is most important thing lene ko kuch bhi Lelo per paise bhi hone chahia.

Egypt bought their planes at 150 million usd for second tranche. Including weapons and stuff. We paid 120 million for just the plane for Su30 mki with Bars radar.

 

[Akshat]

Now, Rafale costs 300+ millions usd per jet for make in India by DRAL-Dassault! Just buy 114 nos. of F15EX jets now and add more later on; for a grand total of 226 nos. of F15EX jets- and PLAAF will be defeated easily; especially if Boeing-TASL can integrate Astra2-3 Meteor-NG and Rudraam-III AWACs killer missiles.

F15 costs well over 350 million without weapons off the shelf. 😂😂😂

 

[Akshat]

Russia is not China's vassal. They did authorize the sale of Brahmos to Ph to be used against China. Its a temporary marriage. They have the same BS with China that we are facing. China wants Vladivostok and created internal chaos there.

That’s why Russia officially said that India should have backed off from LAC and given its land to China? Directly from the government on record, not even some newspaper or think tank.

 

[SK]

Indian Govt should cancel the MRFA & opts to:-
(1) Buy additional 36 Rafale jets for IAF
(2) Encourage IAF & IN to form a JV to invest in : TEDBF (ORCA) & AMCA projects.

The more we invest in Indigenous systems the greater improvement will be seen in Indigenous technology, Scale of Economy & Export potential.

 

[Anant]

Su35 with old stocks of su30mki as super sukhois will be a good alternative than buying too much overprice 4gen if we are in budget crunch

And what makes you think the Su-35 will be cheap? The Su-35 is very different from the Su-30MKI in terms of subsystems and components. As it is, the baseline price is 83-ish million USD each (the price at which China bought them).

The Su-30MKI deal approved last year comes to some 110 million USD each. A new Su-35 deal would cost us significantly more very easily, not to mention would give us an older design style.

If you really wanted Su-35s, you may as well go for modernised Su-30MKIs instead.

 

[Sandeep]

Other than buying another 12 Sukhoi jets then India shouldn't buy anymore foreign jets at all. India needs to focus on its own indigenous jets with the Tejas MK1A and MK2 along with the AMCA jet. At the same time they need to upgrade our Sukhoi jets into the Super Sukhoi as quickly as possible as that will be using most of our indigenous equipment, parts, software and technology.

Also if the single engine stealth fighter Checkmate then we can also get 1-2 squadrons to boost our numbers and used for supporting our current number and type of jets if the technology and capabilities exist.

 

[Anant]

Geopolitical considerations will be important factor while selecting MRFA if ever it is materialised . Due to heavy Russian reliance on china ,any Russian aircraft will be excluded . Current hostile attitude of Five eyes (evils) alliance openly conspiring against our heroes like RAW chief ,NSA excludes all American origin fighters for foreseeable future. Bharat has only two options - one is French Rafales and another is cancellation of MRFA with all investment in indigenous jet engine and fighters.

Cancellation of MRFA isn't an option unless you want to significantly compromise squadron numbers.

 

[vikrant rao]

Su35 is history now…. It could be the better choice in 2010s…
Rafale is way ahead than Su35 technologically… additionally IAF can’t afford another heavy class fighter given limited budget…
I think Indian Air Force is waiting for F 35 to be offered in MRFA.

Who wants the F35 with all the baggage of terms and conditions that come along with any US deal? Look at Turkiye and Japan and South Korea. Being made to jump through hoops and bend over backwards and sign long term deals with parent Lockheed - these guys are crooks! The US will simply hold India to ransom when India will have no choice but to do what it says.

Also, can anyone say where the the Rafale, F-35, F16 etc have been tested? None of the Western aircraft have been tested in real world conditions or against peer adversaries getting shot down by S-300s in Syria but no media will talk about it and Israel recently junking Patriot in favour of their own Iron Dome- the US capabilities are exaggerated. Whereas India atleast has a reliable and trustworthy supplier in the Russians and understands the Su platforms to customise them quickly with more modern 'make in india' variants. The F-404 engine deal is a joke designed to restrict India the just the F404 and progress no further given the number of technical limitations set on the engine use and supply. US treats Indians like kings during negotiations but when it comes to finer details treats them like beggars. In the meantime the US is drawing India into its orbit of constant wars and conflicts while it sits comfortably far away protected by 10,000km of ocean on both sides! India must not become a Taiwan or Ukraine pawn bec the Americans dangle carrots. The long term costs far outweigh the consequences of war participation.

As Kissinger said, "to be an enemy of the US is dangerous but to be a friend is lethal".

 

[Anant]

Indian Govt should cancel the MRFA & opts to:-
(1) Buy additional 36 Rafale jets for IAF
(2) Encourage IAF & IN to form a JV to invest in : TEDBF (ORCA) & AMCA projects.

The more we invest in Indigenous systems the greater improvement will be seen in Indigenous technology, Scale of Economy & Export potential.

In order to maintain squadron numbers, MRFA is a necessity.

 

[Anant]

Other than buying another 12 Sukhoi jets then India shouldn't buy anymore foreign jets at all. India needs to focus on its own indigenous jets with the Tejas MK1A and MK2 along with the AMCA jet. At the same time they need to upgrade our Sukhoi jets into the Super Sukhoi as quickly as possible as that will be using most of our indigenous equipment, parts, software and technology.

Also if the single engine stealth fighter Checkmate then we can also get 1-2 squadrons to boost our numbers and used for supporting our current number and type of jets if the technology and capabilities exist.

Simply put, unless you want the IAF to face a massive crisis of the number of available squadrons, then MRFA is a necessity. Not necessarily qualitatively, but certainly so quantitatively.

Oh, and you are advocating buying a few squadrons of the Su-75 (a plane that doesn't exist and quite probably never will) right after you advocate no more foreign purchases? Make up your mind.

Also, why on Earth would you want to complicate maintenance again by bringing in yet another aircraft type?