France Offers Advanced Materials and Metallurgy Collaboration for AMCA Jet's 110kN Engine Development with India

In a significant boost to India's indigenous defence manufacturing ambitions, France has pledged its support for the development of a powerful 110kN engine destined for the nation's Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) program.

This collaborative effort will see France provide crucial technical expertise and support in the complex process of designing and building the advanced engine, which is expected to significantly enhance the AMCA's long-range strike capabilities.

The partnership extends beyond engine development, encompassing cooperation in advanced materials and metallurgy. These fields are fundamental to the production of critical components in both military and civilian engines.

This collaboration presents a valuable opportunity for Indian industries to gain expertise in advanced metallurgy, specifically in the intricate processes of forging and casting components vital for aircraft engines.

Mastering these technologies is essential for India to fully absorb and utilize the high-end technology involved in such joint ventures.

While France has committed to supporting the 110kN engine program, the final decision on which company will lead the engine's development for the AMCA 5th generation fighter remains pending.

India's Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) is currently evaluating proposals from industry giants GE Aerospace and Rolls-Royce, while also exploring the possibility of an entirely in-house development program.

The ultimate choice of engine developer carries significant implications for India's defence industry and its long-term strategic objectives. A successful outcome to this program would not only strengthen India's military might but also position the country as a key player in the global aerospace arena.

This development aligns with a broader trend of increasing defence cooperation between India and France. Recent reports indicate that France has also offered to collaborate on other critical defence technologies, including nuclear submarines and underwater drones, further solidifying the strategic partnership between the two nations.

 

[PKPRS]

Last year they build far less than that.

10

 

[Philippe Picard]

Just the the typical French propaganda to kill anything indigenous

And the American are surely better...They will kill your entire industry....and your Tejas will never compete and win some things against their F-16, their are the worst and the F-35 is the final nail to kill everything, only imbecile like PKPRS cannot comprehend that fact. In Europe, 2 countries resists, the Swedish and the French. Your pseudo AK S is to denigrate AKSHAT, like the idiotic clown Sick Sichard, or AKSHIT. You are an arrogant idiot who constantly lie with no moderation, why?

 

[Akshat]

you want better proof than our Indian Naval Cheif, he said Rafale-M F3 base costs $253Mln before any India specific MODS.

Nope. He never did. He in fact said we are getting them only for 123 million USD with everything, which is cheaper than even the Tejas made by HAL.

 

[Akshat]

we do, virupaksha radar is a GaN radar, Indians made it first before you french.

And Virupaksha is being used on which plane? Btw, our dear French friends already have a full GaN suite that will be used on production model Rafales from next year itself. But what do you Russians have?

 

[PKPRS]

And Virupaksha is being used on which plane? Btw, our dear French friends already have a full GaN suite that will be used on production model Rafales from next year itself. But what do you Russians have?

How can a Indian become Russian, I never went to Russia, even as mercenary, may be you Frenchies went to Ukraine, now I understand your hatred towards Indians like me, All SU-30 ‘s very soon have Virupaksha.

 

[Philippe Picard]

France don’t need their own 5th gen. NATO has F35 and they are covered.

No need of that Trojan Horse. SCAF is coming and the Rafale F5 standard. clown. The French can developp their own stuff.

 

[NSR]

This time, I waited to read all of your comments before I can write my comments.

The making of an altogether new engine takes anywhere from 5 to 10 years and in France trying to build without a core engine will surely take 10 years.
And there are many failures indeed by many countries during many decades of developments.

The Rolls Royce and General Electric has core engines technologies that can easily support a very quick fighter engine India wishes to have.
Rolls Royce is promising all IP and TOTs for complete local manufacturing so India can easily use it as its own engines in export fighters.

Not sure about GE offer completely but it is based on F-414 designs with some new architecture so it may have potential for a quick success. But confidence in relationship is very lacking to trust the future actions by USA.

France/Safran always played games with India about Rafale and Kaveri engine and unfulfilled offsets.
Safran do not have any fighter engine in the class of F-414 so it will surely take 10 years to build one but we need AMCA engine faster.
France/Dassault/Safran/Thales always print sugary and exotic and mouth watering stories of helping India but what they did for Mirage-2000I and Scorpene, and Rafale offsets does not inspire much confidence in me at all.

So I think Rolls Royce may hold best option as it fulfills all of Indian government requirements for local productions, TOTs, and IPs.
But India must make sure that all the fine print reading is done by competent lawyers and patent interpreters, damages experts, etc to write an IRONCLAD CONTRACT.

 

[beencensured]

The best deal that we will get is with France. We get to develop a brand new engine from the start, receive 100% of the technology, manufacture 100% in India and with indigenous content. The USA are refusing to give or develop a brand new engine where we get 100% of it and so far RR haven’t been too forth coming about their engine development plan and the details.

So it seems that we are definitely going with France and in about 8 years time our AMCA MK2 can use the engine and replace all other foreign engines when it’s time to replace them on our other jets.

Does not make sense by the time we fix al31 engine putting fedac controls, improve efficiency and maintenance, but we cannot make and design on our own as no facilities to test? By the time al31 engine will be indigenous, we hold French very expensive hands while our Babus and netas will be French kissing like the over expensive cost of kaveri audit in France, this a no risk methods of people with no faith in nation.

 

[desigandu]

Last year they build far less than that.

According to Dassault Aviation's latest reports, in 2023, they delivered 13 Rafale jets and in the first half of 2024, they delivered 6 Rafale jets to the French Air Force.

Key points:

2023 deliveries: 13 Rafale jets

2024 deliveries (first half): 6 Rafale jets

So MRFA can’t be Rafales as it is impossible for them to be delivered before 2035 even we sign by late 2024…

 

[AK S]

No one will join unless there are tenders. There are companies for all the products for which GoI issues open tenders. But where are the tenders for the big products? Without tenders how would the best and the brightest of Indians join?

You need tender to join a DRDO? No you don’t. They can hire consultants laterally. No need to appear in the qualification exams too.

 

[Cookie monster]

Ok so i don't have engineering background but can someone tell me that why can't we develop an engine whereas we have achieved so much in terms of space exploration, building long range missiles and also on nuclear front ?

 

[kurtwallis wallis]

Best and brightest are free to join. Even private sectors are free to invest in relevant R&D. But it’s been left to the mediocre.

French Nationals are welcome too. You can help.

As long as France can loot 100's Billions euros from India they will commit to anything even nuke subs also!!

 

[Bard of Anarchy]

Ok so i don't have engineering background but can someone tell me that why can't we develop an engine whereas we have achieved so much in terms of space exploration, building long range missiles and also on nuclear front ?

Building a jet engine is more complex than building a rocket. We have built Kaveri, but it's underpowered.

 

[Rajsn]

The best deal that we will get is with France. We get to develop a brand new engine from the start, receive 100% of the technology, manufacture 100% in India and with indigenous content. The USA are refusing to give or develop a brand new engine where we get 100% of it and so far RR haven’t been too forth coming about their engine development plan and the details.

So it seems that we are definitely going with France and in about 8 years time our AMCA MK2 can use the engine and replace all other foreign engines when it’s time to replace them on our other jets.

Engine will take 7 to 10 years to develop.
How will a new configuration Engine fit in Tejas . As I am sure AMCA and newer Fighters will have Different Configuration and design of Engine ....

 

[Sandeep]

Does not make sense by the time we fix al31 engine putting fedac controls, improve efficiency and maintenance, but we cannot make and design on our own as no facilities to test? By the time al31 engine will be indigenous, we hold French very expensive hands while our Babus and netas will be French kissing like the over expensive cost of kaveri audit in France, this a no risk methods of people with no faith in nation.

Of course we need to develop our own 100% indigenously developed and manufactured engines. The problem is that with the Kaveri engine it doesn’t produce enough thrust that’s required for a modern jet. We have made good progress so far with developing a dry thrust 50kn engine which will be used for the stealth UCAV Ghatak and they are developing the Kaveri Marine Engine which can be used on small to medium ships. If India wants to use the Kaveri engine for jets they still need to develop an afterburner to produce wet thrust and so far we are still developing it and it will take some time unless the USA will give that technology as they claimed they would as part of the offset from our F404 and F414 engine deal with GE. Also we need modern engines very urgently as we need to increase our squadron and air force strength and there’s no guarantee on WHEN and IF the engine will work, be reliable, efficient, have a long lifespan, is cost effective, if it can produce the required thrust level and it will be acceptable by the air force. That’s why we need to use foreign engines for now and in future when it’s ready we can use the Kaveri engine to replace those foreign engines. Our jets will be in service for at least 40 years and on average we will use about 4-5 engines throughout that period so there is a significant opportunity there to use the Kaveri engine when we need to replace the engines.

As for Russian engines we can’t install it on our Tejas MK1A and MK2 because it doesn’t fit and its technology, parts and components is not compatible with the jet. It’s possible to use it on the AMCA but the engine and its technology is about 30 years old which isn’t ideal for a 5.5th generation jet. Even if we use the most modern variant of that engine the problem still remains as it can’t meet the stealth requirements that we need on a stealth jet by hiding the heat that’s discharged from engine. This will be a massive target and bullseye for enemy jets and ideal to attract an infrared air to air missile.

As for developing a 5th generation stealth engine for a stealth jet they are the only country that gives us what we always want. We will develop a brand new engine together where we get 100% of the technology, manufacture 100% in India and using 100% of Indian raw material and content. Also we will get to receive the latest education, knowledge, experience and learn on how to design and develop an engine which nobody else will give. We need to understand and learn about the science, engineering, metallurgy, machinery, process etc that’s involved in developing an engine. So France is giving us the best deal which will help us in future on developing our own engine that’s more powerful and better etc.

 

[Sandeep]

Engine will take 7 to 10 years to develop.
How will a new configuration Engine fit in Tejas . As I am sure AMCA and newer Fighters will have Different Configuration and design of Engine ....

With France as a partner we wi be ready to manufacture the engines within 8-10 years time. Also to install our old F404 and F414 engines with this new one is possible. We might need to make internal changes and modifications along with the air frame and fuselage but it’s possible to do it.

 

[Inder]

If Safran and RR are offering the same level of technology transfer and IP rights, Rolls-Royce clearly has a superior track record when it comes to delivering high-thrust engines, specifically within the performance range required for the AMCA project. Their experience in stealth, supercruise, and participation in cutting-edge fighter jet programs (like the F-35 and Tempest) gives them a clear advantage over Safran, making them a lower-risk and more capable partner for this critical project.

Given the maturity of their technology and proven ability to deliver high-performance fighter jet engines, Rolls-Royce would be the preferred choice to ensure the success of the AMCA engine development.

Any American affiliation will come with strings attached so not an option.

 

[V K Singh]

It appears that every writer herein is an expert in foreign affairs and technically an master to understand the complexity of foreign policy and complicated and highly scientific aero engine manufacturing. So the comments come like a master of all trades.

 

[Inder]

It appears that every writer herein is an expert in foreign affairs and technically a master to understand the complexity of foreign policy and complicated and highly scientific aero engine manufacturing. So the comments come like a master of all trades.

It appears you have nothing of value to add 🙄