Greece, India Explore Joint Negotiation for Rafale Fighter Jet Procurement

[PKPRS]

Still lower than the f18.

You will soon know the price of F18 sold to India then compare that price with $300Mln ++.

 

[Akshat]

You will soon know the price of F18 sold to India then compare that price with $300Mln ++.

Nothing to see bro. Mod has declared that Rafale is cheaper than F18 by choosing it for IN. F15 is more expensive. Nothing to wait for.

 

[Akshat]

How will it come with TOT when Dassault buys DRAL 100% and make these Rafales themselves at their factory without collaborating with any Indian entity, so there will be absolute Zero TOT.

So you think GoI doesn’t want any ToT?

 

[charminar_waale_ismail_bhai]

And 0 (Zero) TOT.

Haan, woh sab TOT ka pitaara le kar toh DarDO and HAL are already challenging established players in the international arms market, right?

 

[Akshat]

Good, but despite Rafales being good the 2 big problems are capacity to deliver Rafale F4s the planes by 2030 and then price…For MRFA/120 odd jets if France can deliver in a G2G 36 planes in flyby condition by 2028, and the rest made in India 12-18 per year from 2030, at a combined prices of $150 million with ability to integrate Indian weapons, sensors, capability to upgrade to F5s, and 50-75% indigenisation over the contract period, then let us do it…but that is impossible given what we know currently…also there are no easy and fast options as our own Tejas Mk2 will only start limited delivery by 2030 and AMCA Mk1s by 2035 - I am being optimistic…Only the Americans have the industrial capacity besides our enemy China to deliver 100s of fighters per year…so what should India do - I suggest we spend a lot of money and split MRFA into 60 Rafales and 60 F-35As in flyby condition all delivered by 2030 at $150 million per jet, while we focus on Tejas and AMCA…Yes it will cost money but let us spend $5B per year for 8 years to buy this capability…make realistic suggestions with options instead of saying we must do more - how???

Actually most of what you mentioned has already been agreed to. 50% or more indigenization is a given. No issues. First Rafale will come within 3 years of signing the deal, and all the fly away Rafale’s will be delivered over the 2 years after the first one. First made in India will come in 5 years. So if signed right now, the plane would start coming in 2027 and India made planes in 2029. Indian weapons are already being integrated. Cost of the planes, without weapons, is going to be below 150 million usd. Cost of Rafale for France is said to be about 68 million USD and you can add 50% to it. And then another 50% for spares and all. So you can get it for that price.

So all the conditions can be met. And Rafale is the only player who can do it.

 

[Tanishq Bafila]

How will it come with TOT when Dassault buys DRAL 100% and make these Rafales themselves at their factory without collaborating with any Indian entity, so there will be absolute Zero TOT.

Hasn't given yet , it still owns only 49% stake in DRAL , if it happens then we will talk..

TOT is a myth in major weapons , you pay for the thing that you are going to get only a pinch of it. They give you codes for future replacement & integration of weapons etc & TOT to assemble common parts.

DRAL will get the TOT and not India as it is not a DPSU that GOI owns it. GOI can later buy the shares in DRAL or any other private entity.

 

[PKPRS]

So you think GoI doesn’t want any ToT?

GOI wants but Dassault, France and Macron doesn't want to offer any TOT, everytime when it comes to TOT talk they let us run around, they are extremely happy to pay the meager fine than meeting the obligations.

 

[Sandeep]

No rule says that the tech has to be inferior to NATO. In fact, Rafales of IAF are said to be better than even France itself. Our radars are same. Weapons are anyways add ons and any weapon once integrated is available for purchase. Engine is same. So most of the stuff is same.

It’s generally an understanding because selling critical and major NATO weapons to a non NATO member can put the alliance at risk if that country sold it to NATOs enemies.

As for Rafale they can use the jets computer and software to control the radar and any control of the range and clarity it can provide etc. With engines they do the same and control or restrict the amount of thrust etc.

 

[Akshat]

It’s generally an understanding because selling critical and major NATO weapons to a non NATO member can put the alliance at risk if that country sold it to NATOs enemies.

As for Rafale they can use the jets computer and software to control the radar and any control of the range and clarity it can provide etc. With engines they do the same and control or restrict the amount of thrust etc.

All lies. There are no restrictions whatsoever. Some countries are banned altogether or from some equipment. But wherever you are allowed to sell something, you can sell the top end stuff. I dare you to show me a single such agreement between NATO. In fact, many a times stuff sold outside NATO turns out to be better than NATO. Like the engines of F16 sold to UAE (or maybe it was Saudi) are the most powerful engines in F16 in the world. Rafale’s radar for India is better than even France.

Similarly, there is no such downgrade on engines. I dare you to show me a single source that says that engines are downgraded for Indian Rafales. They have in fact been upgraded for cold environments.

Lies lies all the way.

 

[Akshat]

GOI wants but Dassault, France and Macron doesn't want to offer any TOT, everytime when it comes to TOT talk they let us run around, they are extremely happy to pay the meager fine than meeting the obligations.

But 100% ownership can only be done with explicit permission of GoI. So are you saying that M0diji is cheating India? Of course, as a self confessed India hater you would say that.

 

[Sharan]

But the best possible price is given by Dassault only. L1 twice.

We don’t want 114 half Rafale’s for $17Bln, we want 114 Rafales fully locked and loaded with India specific enhancement, offset, 35-50%TOT, source code access to integrate Indian missiles, all for $17Bln.

 

[Sandeep]

All lies. There are no restrictions whatsoever. Some countries are banned altogether or from some equipment. But wherever you are allowed to sell something, you can sell the top end stuff. I dare you to show me a single such agreement between NATO. In fact, many a times stuff sold outside NATO turns out to be better than NATO. Like the engines of F16 sold to UAE (or maybe it was Saudi) are the most powerful engines in F16 in the world. Rafale’s radar for India is better than even France.

Similarly, there is no such downgrade on engines. I dare you to show me a single source that says that engines are downgraded for Indian Rafales. They have in fact been upgraded for cold environments.

Lies lies all the way.

You should read the EU export of military weapons and technology which is most of NATO which clearly mentions the rules.

NATO has their own common standards on weapons and technology to ensure commonality between members.

Also I said that it’s possible for nations from Europe to cap the quality of their exports. France did it with the Shakti engine for the Dhruv helicopters as they capped the power to a lower amount than what it’s actually capable of doing. Also I’m saying that it’s possible for France to control jet engine power with their software and I’m not saying that they have done this for the Rafale jets.