Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) News and Discussion

[Pink Panther]

Can you make it 2050😹😹😹

The phase at which projects are moving, I wouldn’t be surprised if it takes till 2050 or even beyond, also there are a lot of contradictions and disagreements in policies between India and the US, so procurement of several products are even in jeopardy.

 

[Anil Sabaji]

Instead of differentiating fighter jets as 5th Gen or 6th Gen just keep improving the Technologies with every batch

 

[ABHIJIT APSINGIKAR]

amca mk1 prototype isn't coming before 2033

True, my guess is that it would be atleast 2038-40 before it even commences its a full scale fllight prototype commences flight testing trials seriously

 

[Joydeep Ghosh]

Dear lord! about time we stop this madness. We are struggling to produce LCA MK-2, a patently 4-4.5 generation fighter, and we are having wild fantasy for developing 6 generation fighter, when we cant even produce Tejas MK-2 on time. If we continue this way, we will become the laughingstock of the world and will be ridiculed for this madness.

true after tejas mk1, there is mk1a then mk2, then tedbf, only then amca mk1 will come thats easy 2033

 

[Pink Panther]

An unfortunate truth, but we do need to join one of these 6th generation programs. Otherwise, we'll be stuck playing catch-up for the next couple of decades.

It will be too expensive for India, the best option for India is something like FGFA, make a local product with foreign collabration.

 

[Avada kedavra]

Who are the private players?
If HAL is uncharge expect 2038.

 

[Pink Panther]

Make it after 2045, the MK2 itself is unlikely to enter production anytime before 2033, and you expect them to suddenly succeed in producing AMCA, which has drastically expanded technology scope?

That’s how it looks like, also all procurements from US like engines are doubtful due to many disagreements in policies, for an example CAA, if India buys anything major from Russia, then that’s the end of any cooperation.

 

[Amit Ray]

Unmanned Invisible Fighter Aircraft. 7th Generation.

 

[Puneet]

The time-line is good or ambitious I'd say. HAL needs massive restructuring. Maybe they should appoint a serving Air Marshall at the helm to steer HAL. Military discipline will help it to work in clockwork fashion.

 

[Baka007]

USA/ China/ Russia/ Turkey - we have 5th gen fighter and soon 6th
India - we have vision 👀 🙈

 

[Rahul Dev]

It is very crucial for India to have options but we have to do it. One thing is always is in mind that it is better to have talk with Russian Authorities for FGFA and technology transfer of 6 th Gen fighter Mig-41.

 

[DMS]

AMCA Mk 1 isn't 5.5th generation, my friend. There are reasons why it can be argued it won't even be a true 5th generation aircraft, and would be more of a "5-" generation aircraft similar to the KF-21. AMCA Mk 2 can be 5.5th generation, or 6th generation, or whatever, but unless we have a broad agreement on what exactly that entails and we have something tangible to show for it, that discussion is purely academic.

Non sense, It is a true 5th gen.

All those saying super cruise as criteria are lying, f35 doesn't have supercruise.
With fly by optics and GAN Avionics, it is bit more advance than F35 in some ways, not stealth though,

Radar absorbant materials of Yankies are better

 

[Tanishq Bafila]

Even AMCA will take 14-15 years to enter production, if there are no major tech challenges.

Only for AMCA Mk-2 14-15 years

 

[Pink Panther]

true after tejas mk1, there is mk1a then mk2, then tedbf, only then amca mk1 will come thats easy 2033

Really by 2033, I wish and pray for AMCA prototype be ready by that time, then testing and satisfying IAF’s demand and repeated changing of specs and requirements.

 

[Pink Panther]

Yea, indigenous product but main heart the engine being imported from other countries, we have become a laughing stock

Even that engine import is highly doubtful.

 

[Pink Panther]

AMCA MK1 is 5.5 Gen & AMCA MK2 may have some upgraded 6th Gen Tech .

Haha😇😂, it’s that easy, there are lot of lessons that could be learned from other 5th gen programs
Example : US, Russia, China, Japan, Tempest, FCAS, KAI KF-21 and KHAN.
And then mention the timelines.

 

[Pink Panther]

Amca should design with 6 th generation features. Our all problem lie with engine only. It is the most deplorable that india is not able to develop any engine. Due to lack of eco system.

Wish they design with 5th gen features.

 

[desigandu]

India should join/evaluate GCAP with UK+Japan+Italy as an equity partner with TOT and domestic production...Of course they need to agree and we also need to be clear of what we bring ro the table besides just money...Technology learnings will be big and it will propel our Defense R&D...It may be prudent, cheaper, and faster as we can develop and also upgrade AMCA on our own...Full spectrum stealth + variable cycle engines (200KN+) + sensor advancements will be key for 6th GEN (a bigger plane in the 40-50Ton class in a true flying wing configuration in an optionally manned/unmanned configuration).

 

[desigandu]

India has already laid out a roadmap on the AMCA project which is very clear. The AMCA MK1 will be a standard 5th generation stealth fighter and the AMCA MK2 will be a 5.5th generation stealth jet with having some capabilities of a 6th generation jet. We will only manufacture 1-2 squadrons of the AMCA MK1 version which will hold a lower amount of indigenous technology and equipment.

Most of our jets will be the AMCA MK2 variant because it will have a higher amount of indigenous technology and parts which includes the more crucial part and technology of our own indigenously developed engine with Safran.

These jets will be in service for at least 40+ years and within that time they would be developing our own 6th+ generation jet which may hold 7th generation technology, parts or equipment etc.

Sorry, but I disagree (I am a patriot who loves and wishes India well, but am also a realist - military family and strategy consultant)...I will say I am proud and hopeful that we successfully execute AMCA, fast...But as designed (public domain) AMCA Mk-1 is 4.5+ GEN plane (underpowered engines about 95KN, less sensor fusion, 4 missiles in internal bay not enough, no supercruise or supermaneuvrability) and Mk-2 is a 5+ GEN plane (but even the 130KN engines will be underpowered with low cooling, and we will still not have full spectrum stealth - engines nozzles infrared, rear stealth etc..)...We can say whatever we want (It is true that there no standard definition of 4/5/6 GEN so we can say whatever pleases us) but the specs/capabilities/evolution is clear between 5th/6th GEN (Even the F-35s can't supercruise but have compromised it for sensor fusion given its role; thus once F-22s retire the Americans want NGADs/250 numbers + 1000s of F-35s with unmanned stealth planes like Valkyrie etc, flying together)...But it is okay to accept that even with Mk-2 we will be technologically behind as long as we have a good plan to develop/improve rapidly...Thus, besides going for AMCA full steam ahead we should think about joining GCAP as an option to compress our R&D and leapfrog ahead (as launching a 6th GEN program beyond AMCA with our current budget , capabilities even by 2035 ($10T economy and $250B Defense spend) is a huge stretch, thus we should partner)...Just look at what the Americans are doing with NGAD and FA-XX and see what I talking about (NGAD first flights may have already happened and it will deploy by 2030; B-21 is already flying).

 

[PROVerified member]

HAL Proposes Shift to Nasik Facility for AMCA's Public-Private SPV Production Model​

India's ambitious AMCA (Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft) program, designed to propel the nation's defense capabilities into the realm of 5th-generation fighters, has gained significant momentum with government approval for development.

Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), the state-owned aerospace giant, will spearhead the initial production phase, building prototypes and pre-production aircraft.

Public-Private Partnership for Long-Term Production​

The long-term manufacturing strategy for the AMCA centers on a Special Purpose Vehicle (SPV) model. This SPV will see a private sector company hold a majority stake, while HAL retains a minority position.

The goal is to harness the combined expertise of both the public and private sectors to ensure the AMCA's efficient and cost-effective production.

Potential Change in Manufacturing Site​

A potential shift in strategy has emerged regarding the AMCA's manufacturing facility.

While earlier plans centered on a new joint venture facility in Coimbatore under the Tamil Nadu Defence Industrial Corridor, HAL may now offer its existing facilities in Nasik to the private sector partner.

These facilities are currently undergoing upgrades to support Tejas Mk1A production.

Upgrading vs. New Builds: Considerations​

The reasons behind this potential change aren't fully defined. It's possible that upgrading the Nasik facilities could be faster and more cost-effective than building an entirely new plant in Coimbatore.

Additionally, Nasik's existing aerospace ecosystem could provide an advantage for AMCA production.

Milestone Approval and the Road Ahead​

The government's green light for the AMCA program is a significant step forward.

Whether a new facility is ultimately built or existing infrastructure is repurposed, the partnership between HAL and a private sector company will be essential.

This collaboration aims to successfully develop and deploy the AMCA, positioning India as a leading force in the global aerospace industry.

 

[PROVerified member]

MIDHANI and DRDO Forging the AMCA's Stealth Features with Material Breakthroughs​

India's pursuit of a cutting-edge, indigenously developed fighter jet takes a major stride as state-owned MIDHANI (Mishra Dhatu Nigam Limited) and the Defence Metallurgical Research Laboratory (DMRL), a key laboratory within the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), spearhead the creation of next-generation alloys for the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

These advanced materials hold the key to the AMCA's stealth capabilities, allowing it to outmaneuver adversaries and evade detection by enemy radar.

MIDHANI: A Proven Partner in Aerospace Innovation​

MIDHANI's contributions to India's aerospace ambitions are well-established.

The company's successful development and supply of 12 titanium slabs for the AMCA underscores its expertise in producing specialized alloys tailored for the rigorous demands of modern fighter aircraft.

DMRL: Driving Metallurgical Breakthroughs​

DMRL is at the forefront of India's materials research, developing cutting-edge alloys custom-made for the AMCA. A prime example is the High Strength Metastable Beta Titanium Alloy, offering remarkable advantages for aerospace structural components.

Its lighter weight compared to traditional steel boosts aircraft performance and translates directly into improved fuel efficiency.

Beyond Titanium: DMRL's Arsenal of Advanced Materials​

The AMCA's stealth and performance rely on a diverse array of next-generation materials. Here's a look at other innovations in DMRL's pipeline:

• Carbon Fiber-Reinforced Polymers (CFRP): These composites are renowned for their unmatched strength-to-weight ratio. CFRPs also reduce heat and radar signatures, bolstering the AMCA's stealth profile. Their successful use in the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas, where they comprise 45% of the airframe, demonstrates their benefits for weight reduction and structural integrity.
• Aluminum Alloys: DMRL is formulating advanced aluminum alloys to strike a balance between strength, weight, and cost-effectiveness, opening up possibilities for their use in various AMCA components.
• High-Tech Steels: Where extreme strength and durability are paramount, DMRL is engineering specialized high-tech steels for strategic use within the AMCA's design.

A Multi-Faceted Stealth Strategy​

DRDO's ingenuity extends beyond materials alone. Researchers have developed specialized radar-absorbent paints and coatings, further minimizing the AMCA's radar reflection.

This comprehensive approach, combining advanced alloys, composites, and stealthy coatings, positions the AMCA as a formidable 5th-generation fighter with an exceptionally low radar cross-section.

The Path to Self-Reliance​

The collaboration between MIDHANI and DRDO in developing the AMCA's "stealthy skin" is a significant milestone in India's journey toward self-reliance in advanced defence technologies.

By mastering the complex science of stealth materials and coatings, India reduces its dependence on foreign suppliers and paves the way for a truly indigenous, next-generation fighter jet.

 

[sanket]

Private sector too has to Invest , they just interested in profits.if India is Going to become Atmanirbhar in Aero-Sector. Pvt can also involve in MRO Facility this is another opportunity.

 

[venkat]

Starting with hal means Amca is dead

 

[sanket]

people want AMCA to b ready within 2 to 3 years for Induction. thats Diffrence between other 4.75 Stealth Fighters & AMCA .

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

Going for existing facility will be much cheaper and faster. But then how is private sector going to maintain control using its majority stake if HAL facility is being used. It is good initiative to go for public private partnership, but how will it work?

 

[Ajath]

Hope the stakeholders gets going now that CCS has greenlighted the project.

 

[Sivasankar]

Lot of talk on AMCA. High time to get to work.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

India is always lagging when it comes to metallurgical research for aircraft manufacturing. This seems like a good development. Even kalyani is going to set up a titanium plant in odisha. Right now we have to depend on imports. This can bring down the import % in aircrafts like tejas

 

[nakul1307]

Why are Tata, Adani not contributing here if they are so nationalist

 

[NSR]

Where is the space?

It will be manufacturing Tejas IA, Tejas Mk2, TEDBF, and of course AMCA in same factory space.
Not possible without private companies participation at all.

HAL already bit more than it can bite and chew at the same time.