Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) News and Discussion

[Instant Karma]

Private sector too has to Invest , they just interested in profits.if India is Going to become Atmanirbhar in Aero-Sector. Pvt can also involve in MRO Facility this is another opportunity.

Private sector companies are not interested. They want readymade products just like C 295 by TATA and M4 by kalyani and K9 by L&T. They only want to assemble and do screwdriving jobs. They don't have the mental capacity and strength to do such technological advanced projects.

Only HAL can do it. Instead of waiting for 5 years to call the private sector companies, government should have allowed HAL to start work on the project. HAL world have already started serial production of AMCA.

 

[CCPSmasher]

Do you want your project in eternity? Well, then you go for HAL

 

[ABHIJIT APSINGIKAR]

Doubt anyone notes the Irony? The low observable di-electric composite skin is going to be developed by DRDO/MIDHANI? MIDHANI/DMRL as an organization was created to develop metallurgical alloys, can someone at DRDO care to explain as to why did they think an organization specializing in metallurgy was thought to be good enough to take a lead on developing low observable composites?

That right there amply demonstrates the malady afflicting DRDO projects. The program inception phase itself is screwed with having people ill-equipped to handle the projects take lead role in the project. Not surprised most of their projects are horribly managed and rarely reach fruition.

 

[Instant Karma]

Where is the space?

It will be manufacturing Tejas IA, Tejas Mk2, TEDBF, and of course AMCA in same factory space.
Not possible without private companies participation at all.

HAL already bit more than it can bite and chew at the same time.

HAL has huge land in odisha sunabeda where it is manufacturing Mig and sukhoi engines. It has 8200 acres of land in odisha. That much land is sufficient to build a plant that could manufacture A380 or Boeing 777 or AN 224.

It seems that you don't know anything about HAL. HAL is a Ocean in itself and TATA, L&T, Adani, are small ponds as compared to HAL.

 

[Instant Karma]

Why are Tata, Adani not contributing here if they are so nationalist

They are fake nationalists.

 

[Anant]

Why are Tata, Adani not contributing here if they are so nationalist

Give them a guarantee of orders and explain the profit margins, diversification benefits, supply chain partner conditions, etc.

They won't partner simply based on nationalism. They have stakeholders to answer to.

 

[ABHIJIT APSINGIKAR]

Private sector companies are not interested. They want readymade products just like C 295 by TATA and M4 by kalyani and K9 by L&T. They only want to assemble and do screwdriving jobs. They don't have the mental capacity and strength to do such technological advanced projects.

Only HAL can do it. Instead of waiting for 5 years to call the private sector companies, government should have allowed HAL to start work on the project. HAL world have already started serial production of AMCA.

Are u serious? HAL had all the freedom with LCA MK2 and were originally scheduled to roll out the prototype in 2023 but that later turned to 2024 and then to 2025. Similarly, they were originally slated to start test trials by 2025 but now they are likely to only commence in 2027. They had a very narrow window of opportunity where the induction of LCA MK2 made any pragmatic sense. Yet they blew it spectacularly. Its been painfully obvious for industry analysts for a while that the AMCA program has been delayed beyond measure and even the AMCA MK1, which is expected to be a 4-4.5 generation fighter will not see service anytime before 2037-40.

 

[Instant Karma]

Give them a guarantee of orders and explain the profit margins, diversification benefits, supply chain partner conditions, etc.

They won't partner simply based on nationalism. They have stakeholders to answer to.

They only want easy money without any hardwork.

 

[ABHIJIT APSINGIKAR]

Starting with hal means Amca is dead

U cant kill something that was never alive to begin with. When was the project alive and lively moving?

 

[Instant Karma]

Are u serious? HAL had all the freedom with LCA MK2 and were originally scheduled to roll out the prototype in 2023 but that later turned to 2024 and then to 2025. Similarly, they were originally slated to start test trials by 2025 but now they are likely to only commence in 2027. They had a very narrow window of opportunity where the induction of LCA MK2 made any pragmatic sense. Yet they blew it spectacularly. Its been painfully obvious for industry analysts for a while that the AMCA program has been delayed beyond measure and even the AMCA MK1, which is expected to be a 4-4.5 generation fighter will not see service anytime before 2037-40.

HAL had no freedom. First, it was under pressure of privatisation by the government due to lobbying by the private sector companies. Than government withdraw its cash reserves and HAL had to take loans from SBI to pay salaries. Than there was fight between HAL, ADA and DRDO over the design changes made by HAL on Tejas.
Then there was pressure from government to hand over the manufacturing of Tejas fighters parts to private sector companies which delayed the Tejas programme by 5 years. Those private sector companies selected to manufacturing of parts of Tejas were to be trained and handfed by HAL at its own cost. Technology transferred to private companies.
The parts manufactured by the private sector companies were not up to the mark and HAL had to manufacture them in house.

 

[Frank]

Why screw driver kings Adani, Ambani, TATA, Mahindra, LT not ready for SPV partner???

even after so many sweet deals from Gov they wont invest 1 rs in RD???

 

[Frank]

HAL had no freedom. First, it was under pressure of privatisation by the government due to lobbying by the private sector companies. Than government withdraw its cash reserves and HAL had to take loans from SBI to pay salaries. Than there was fight between HAL, ADA and DRDO over the design changes made by HAL on Tejas.

you are DPSU employee??

 

[Instant Karma]

Why screw driver kings Adani, Ambani, TATA, Mahindra, LT not ready for SPV partner???

even after so many sweet deals from Gov they wont invest 1 rs in RD???

Correct. But Ambani is spending 10 thousand crs on preweding ceremony of his son but not ready to spend on projects of national security.

 

[NSR]

HAL has huge land in odisha sunabeda where it is manufacturing Mig and sukhoi engines. It has 8200 acres of land in odisha. That much land is sufficient to build a plant that could manufacture A380 or Boeing 777 or AN 224.

It seems that you don't know anything about HAL. HAL is a Ocean in itself and TATA, L&T, Adani, are small ponds as compared to HAL.

You are woefully off the mark.
It is not about the vacant lands at all.
It is about the existing production facilities where it can manufacture AMCA with private companies.
No private company want to be under the thumb of HAL.

 

[War is good for business]

Are u serious? HAL had all the freedom with LCA MK2 and were originally scheduled to roll out the prototype in 2023 but that later turned to 2024 and then to 2025. Similarly, they were originally slated to start test trials by 2025 but now they are likely to only commence in 2027. They had a very narrow window of opportunity where the induction of LCA MK2 made any pragmatic sense. Yet they blew it spectacularly. Its been painfully obvious for industry analysts for a while that the AMCA program has been delayed beyond measure and even the AMCA MK1, which is expected to be a 4-4.5 generation fighter will not see service anytime before 2037-40.

HAL received clearance to utilise tejas mk-2 funds a month ago and yet you blame them. Without money they cannot do anything. As funds got delayed so was the rollout date.

 

[Ashutosh]

Are u serious? HAL had all the freedom with LCA MK2 and were originally scheduled to roll out the prototype in 2023 but that later turned to 2024 and then to 2025. Similarly, they were originally slated to start test trials by 2025 but now they are likely to only commence in 2027. They had a very narrow window of opportunity where the induction of LCA MK2 made any pragmatic sense. Yet they blew it spectacularly. Its been painfully obvious for industry analysts for a while that the AMCA program has been delayed beyond measure and even the AMCA MK1, which is expected to be a 4-4.5 generation fighter will not see service anytime before 2037-40.

I blame HAL for a lot of things but when it comes to LCA mk2, there have been almost no error by their side till now:
CCS approval of LCA mk2: Sep 2022
CDR conformance: Late 2021
PDR conformance : mid 2019.
In any case HAL can't rollout the fighter in 2023.
Also, about the engine clause, funds were almost a year delayed after the approval.

If we go by this way, then the rollout dates comes to later 2026-27; still sources say rollout would be around mid next year

 

[NSR]

Correct. But Ambani is spending 10 thousand crs on preweding ceremony of his son but not ready to spend on projects of national security.

There are two Ambanis.

1. Mukesh Ambani is one of the richest in India and world.
2. Anil Ambani is the jail ready younger brother of Mukesh. Mukesh rescued Anil when he was going to be imprisoned by lending money to keep him out of jail.

 

[Guru]

Another jaunt in the making for future of ambani and adani. There is hardly any future for the rest of us.

 

[Frank]

HAL received clearance to utilise tejas mk-2 funds a month ago and yet you blame them. Without money they cannot do anything. As funds got delayed so was the rollout date.

are you mentally ill???how can anyone defend HAL??

TUrkey is flying KAAn

 

[Ashutosh]

Correct. But Ambani is spending 10 thousand crs on preweding ceremony of his son but not ready to spend on projects of national security.

Bro tune desh ke lie khud kabhi kuch donate kiya hai!?
Usne to kitni baar charity di hai...

Vo apne bete ko chod kar tum logo pe apni gadhi kamai tumpe lutae...thik hai then why don't u set an example for him....Jake apni Puri property gov. naam kar de in the name of charity.

 

[Frank]

Give them a guarantee of orders and explain the profit margins, diversification benefits, supply chain partner conditions, etc.

They won't partner simply based on nationalism. They have stakeholders to answer to.

Why screw driver kings Adani, Ambani, TATA, Mahindra, LT not ready for SPV partner???

even after so many sweet deals from Gov they wont invest 1 rs in RD???...

 

[Ashutosh]

Why screw driver kings Adani, Ambani, TATA, Mahindra, LT not ready for SPV partner???

even after so many sweet deals from Gov they wont invest 1 rs in RD???...

If u would be ready to invest in a backup less business, then u shall do that first.....Adani Ambani will follow ur example.

 

[Ashutosh]

are you mentally ill???how can anyone defend HAL??

TUrkey is flying KAAn

What he is saying is the truth. Just go and clarify urself by seeing the official approval date.

 

[Frank]

Bro tune desh ke lie khud kabhi kuch donate kiya hai!?
Usne to kitni baar charity di hai...

he "earns" all the money because he is crony

 

[Ashutosh]

he "earns" all the money because he is crony

A successful businessmen is termed crony all because he won't invest in ur whatsoever program..... Jealousy!!

 

[Anant]

They only want easy money without any hardwork.

They are willing to work hard, but they will certainly be more profit-oriented than a DPSU. Can't blame them for that.

 

[Ashutosh]

They are fake nationalists.

And why !? Just because they didn't invest in a high risk backup less project!?

How about you first trying to do the same!?

 

[bonito]

Great thought to get out of a seperatists state. Recently communists and some miscreants due to Chinese influence tried to close Foxconn in Chennai and also tried to sabotage in Bangalore too.

 

[ABHIJIT APSINGIKAR]

HAL had no freedom. First, it was under pressure of privatisation by the government due to lobbying by the private sector companies. Than government withdraw its cash reserves and HAL had to take loans from SBI to pay salaries. Than there was fight between HAL, ADA and DRDO over the design changes made by HAL on Tejas.
Then there was pressure from government to hand over the manufacturing of Tejas fighters parts to private sector companies which delayed the Tejas programme by 5 years. Those private sector companies selected to manufacturing of parts of Tejas were to be trained and handfed by HAL at its own cost. Technology transferred to private companies.
The parts manufactured by the private sector companies were not up to the mark and HAL had to manufacture them in house.

Don't kid yourself. They had total freedom. Being under pressure to deliver under the threat of privatization is not the same as having no freedom.

HAL for the first time in its miserable existence, is being forced to be responsible fiscally. The government is not going to molly-coddle it anymore that's what has changed and for once its a welcome development.

Stop misinformation, the government did not hand over the manufacturing of Tejas fighters to private sector. HAL is still responsible for the final assembly of Tejas. What has changed is that for once, HAL has been forced to offload fabrication of fuselage, wing segments, and wiring harness, subsystems to private contractors, rather than doing it themselves and then quote an ungodly amount of man-hours for pricing the aircraft. Which is the correct and proper way. For the first time in their lives HAL has been forced to start learning modern supply chain management and undertake vendor management. A job ISRO has been doing far successfully than HAL.

Do u think, Lockheed Martin does everything themselves on site? nope they also outsource the fabrication of fuselage and wing segments and get it fabricated from other vendors. Thats the way the entire aerospace supply-chain works worldwide.

 

[bonito]

Private sector too has to Invest , they just interested in profits.if India is Going to become Atmanirbhar in Aero-Sector. Pvt can also involve in MRO Facility this is another opportunity.

It has been mentioned umpteen times that no private company would take a risk of investing in a project which has no ideal milestones of delivery. They don't have the luxury to block 5000 crs of investment in a program whose delivery timelines will extend 12 times for next 8 years.

And more importantly India is still a communists and socialist country, why would a capitalists invest only to know his company would at any day be seized by govt ?