Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) News and Discussion

[Fly]

So beating expectations, approval has come in well under a year. Let’s see when ADA comes back with their bowl to ask for additional funds and time.

CDR was submitted half a year ago or what ? 🤔
They didn't announce it i think

 

[Akshat]

CDR was submitted half a year ago or what ? 🤔
They didn't announce it i think

They said in April last year that they have submitted the documents to CCS. So it has been cleared in under a year.

 

[Akshat]

While I can't blame IAF for questioning HAL's conduct and commitment. That being said, IAF can not cover itself in glory either.

Not one person who has been following the MMRCA project has an iota of doubt that IAF has had in the past, instead of putting its weight beind Tejas, shown more inclination towards MMRCA aka Phoren Maal. It was well known, that IAF was delaying Tejas's orders over its fear that large orders of Tejas might impact MMRCA order.

Not true at all. IAF had already agreed to 200 Tejas in the mid 90s. But Tejas got delayed. MMRCA was anyways cleared when they committed to 40 Tejas mk1 and 200 mk2, even before mk1 had IOC. So at no point was Tejas and MMRCA were even competitors. MMRCA had been approved in 2002 or so itself. HAL couldn’t close the negotiations is a different deal altogether. And anyways, at no point can one say that HAL could have produced one extra Tejas that IAF didn’t agree to buy.

 

[Fly]

They said in April last year that they have submitted the documents to CCS. So it has been cleared in under a year.

Haha great
Took 11 months ◉⁠‿⁠◉

 

[alpha numeric]

Get real buddy. LCA MK2 prototype roll out itself has been postponed for 2025-27, after that the prototypes would start a long process of flight-testing trials, where its airframe would be put to test and the FBW software and control systems would be incrementally optimized and sub systems would also be added and tested on board.

Our lead times are fcking absolutely pathetic. Despite having some really intelligent people we still fall short. This is the real indictment of our dysfunctional organisational/governmental setup. The Turks and Koreans(Both had Armed forces that were closely involved in the Defense Manufacturing space; I encourage everybody to look it up) are well on their way to out pace us while we with our clownish and useless civilian bureaucracy led military(which itself is run by a bunch of lazy morons) has shown to be absolutely feckless and obstructive if not in some regards treasonous in their incompetence. As long as India remains a federal democracy with a defacto weak executive branch I don't have much hope us developing internationally competitive manufacturing industry or military industrial excellence.

 

[Fly]

Similarly MRFA, TEDBF and other important projects must be expedited .

TEDBF's PDR has been completed ?
They were doing to ask for funds this time after PDR

 

[alpha numeric]

If it means the early batches of the platform would have relatively fewer indigenous components or would have to use imported sub-systems and weapon systems, then so be it. Once the platform is put into service a detailed comprehensive batch upgrade roadmap can be drafted and then successive batches can incorporate greater degree of indigenous components as time passes.

The earlier batches having less indigenous content is an absolutely practical move that prioritises moving things forward and putting these systems in the field and in the hands of our armed forces. Indigenization should be incremental and should be backed up by our domestic research & development institutions and private/public production partners. I have yet to see this happen in a satisfactory manner. I've stopped hoping for it.

 

[Akshat]

Haha great
Took 11 months ◉⁠‿⁠◉

For any government, clearing this much amount, especially with DRDO’s track record, I would say 11 months is amazing. I think almost everyone here was expecting it to be cleared only after elections.

 

[NSR]

Dude, you do realise that India is working on 3 fighyer aircraft at same time- tejas mk2, tedbf, amca. Also, CCS was waiting for the local production deal for f414 to be finalised before giving approval.

Get lost
India already had 10+ GE F-414s our of 99 ordered.
Local production is a separate issue.
No more

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

Get lost
India already had 10+ GE F-414s our of 99 ordered.
Local production is a separate issue.
No more

Issue was not the availability of engines for prototype, but deal for local production of them. There are certain milestones that need to be completed before additional funding. This is the norm for good project management. You dont just give a blank check as and when someone asks for money

 

[NSR]

Issue was not the availability of engines for prototype, but deal for local production of them. There are certain milestones that need to be completed before additional funding. This is the norm for good project management. You dont just give a blank check as and when someone asks for money

GE originally offered 60% TOT for local production.

Get lost and take your rantings elsewhere.

You must be the reincarnation of Akshat whom I already banned.
No more, go away in peace.

 

[prabar]

The AMCA was approved just recently in 2024, it would now at least take a year or two to fabricate the prototype itself. Now since its a new aircraft with a comparatively higher percentage of radical technologies, its bound to have a longer flight test regime. I would assume the AMCA would take at least 7-10 years to complete flight testing regime. Flight testing of AMCA is unlikely to be completed by 2035-37 even most optimistically. The production would take another 3-4 years, so the first units of AMCA would only enter service sometime in 2042.

It's good to hear someone finally talking sense on this issue... Don't know how people believe such unrealistic timelines as some gospel of truth looking at past track record of Drdo Hal Ada & Dpsu's

 

[prabar]

Name one , any 1 project that drdo/ hal/Ada has delivered on time. If any, then I will apologize

 

[Sandeep]

Finally this is brilliant news. I kept on telling everyone here for months that the delay in giving the AMCA funding isn't the government fault and they weren't just sitting on the file doing nothing. India first had to clear the F414 engine deal with the USA as without an engine you can't make the jet.

Now I really hope that they can quickly start manufacturing and buying all of the parts, components, sensors, equipment and technology as soon as possible. I believe that we can achieve its first flight in 2026 and then hit production around 2032 but it's crucial that we have no more delays now.

 

[Sandeep]

Exactly. Good decision by not waiting for spv since no private sector was coming forward.

The private sector are the main companies that manufacture the parts, components and technology. HAL mostly make the crucial technology like engines but other than that they assemble the jet and certify

 

[Sandeep]

Hoping funds disbursal starts soon.

Funding becomes available straight away

 

[ABHIJIT APSINGIKAR]

The Turks and Koreans(Both had Armed forces that were closely involved in the Defense Manufacturing space; I encourage everybody to look it up) are well on their way to out pace us while we with our clownish and useless civilian bureaucracy led military(which itself is run by a bunch of lazy morons) has shown to be absolutely feckless and obstructive if not in some regards treasonous in their incompetence.

Dude R u really comparing our DRDO to Turkish defense industry? Today Turkey is capable of meeting 75% of its defense requirements internally where as our DRDO struggle to meet even 25-30% of our requirements on time.

 

[ABHIJIT APSINGIKAR]

It's good to hear someone finally talking sense on this issue... Don't know how people believe such unrealistic timelines as some gospel of truth looking at past track record of Drdo Hal Ada & Dpsu's

It does not even take a genius to understand the time lines originally estimated by HAL and DRDO combined are pure fantasy and are only meant to grab investments to ensure their own job security and prevent IAF, IA and the IN from swiftly acquiring technologies and platforms from overseas.

Bcoz, it kinda puts the ball completely in their court and exposes their ineptitude on program management.

 

[Rick Golder]

Name one , any 1 project that drdo/ hal/Ada has delivered on time. If any, then I will apologize

Zorawar, prachand, ATAGS MGS etc. These are the big boys, there are many other things that DRDO have able to give, yes maybe some delay but they have delivered indeed.

 

[Rick Golder]

Zorawar, prachand, ATAGS MGS etc. These are the big boys, there are many other things that DRDO have able to give, yes maybe some delay but they have delivered indeed.

Also DRDO WHaP.

 

[Baiju Bhaskaran]

Government has done it's duty. Now scientists and Engineers has to play their part.

 

[Siddharth Asthana]

Dude, you do realise that India is working on 3 fighyer aircraft at same time- tejas mk2, tedbf, amca. Also, CCS was waiting for the local production deal for f414 to be finalised before giving approval.

HAL and ADA are miles away from machining anything remotely similar to AMCA...today it is a paper plane with some parts being independently tested in wind tunnels...What Indina govt should have done....well ask Tata/L&T/MAhindra/Adani to set up a production line 5 years ago and work together with ADA....as long as HAL spell looms on Indian Defence , it will work no magic

 

[Siddharth Asthana]

Congratulations... Govt of India has done its duty... Concerned Govt and private sector companies should maintain their capacity and faith in Govt and Indian people... 2027 is very long time, atleast AMCA should operate first flight by then..I believe it will be a more advanced aircraft than Turkey's KAAN and South Korea's KFX 50. India is at the forefront of both these aircraft upgrades...KAAN & FX50 they have already developed the aircraft with the help of US companies. But most of the components in India's 5th generation aircraft are indigenously researched and manufactured...

I appreciate your enthusiam....2027 wont have even the LCA Mk2 getting IOC...forget about AMCA....These good for nothing jokers pushed AMCA IOC by 5 years, just check the historical claims by ADA and HAL on previous annual airshows/DEfExpo....google IAF Aero India 2017 and read what HAL said about AMCA....lol....then google IAF Aero India 2019 and then follow the same trail.........2035-37 is the earliest we will get the first squadron...mark my words!

One exception in the timeline, in next term Govt divests half of its stake in HAL and ropes in a pvt player as Tier 1 manufacturing/assembly partner for AMCA asking HAL to work in parallel at their own laggard pace

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

HAL and ADA are miles away from machining anything remotely similar to AMCA...today it is a paper plane with some parts being independently tested in wind tunnels...What Indina govt should have done....well ask Tata/L&T/MAhindra/Adani to set up a production line 5 years ago and work together with ADA....as long as HAL spell looms on Indian Defence , it will work no magic

dude, many of the subsystems for AMCA have already been developed, since it shares them with Tejas mk-2. The design work has been completed. the concealed weapons bay has been designed. The project is on track. The private companies are hesitant to participate on AMCA because of many reasons including but not limited to lack of expertise and experience in fighter jet production, lots of financial risk involved etc. Producing a 5th gen stealth fighter is the most advanced machine in the world. Just because a company is privte does not make it somehow capable of producing them. The govt is encouraging private partnership, but here is is hesitancy. This public privte ecosystem is in development.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

You must be the reincarnation of Akshat whom I already banned.
No more, go away in peace.

lol. You seem to be a kid throwing a tantrum. no worries. go eat lollypop