HAL Chief Explores Russian Engine Options for Tejas Mk1A Amid F-404 Delays: Russian Media

According to a report by Sputnik India, Dr. D.K. Sunil, Chairman & Managing Director of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), is currently in Russia to explore engine manufacturing options for the Tejas Mk1A fighter jet and future Indian aircraft. This visit comes as HAL faces delays in the delivery of F-404 engines from GE Aerospace, which power the Tejas Mk1A.

While these delays have prompted HAL to explore alternatives, sources suggest that a complete engine switch for the Tejas Mk1A is unlikely at this stage due to the extensive testing and validation required for integrating a new engine. This could potentially delay the program by 3-4 years.

Russia has a long history of defence cooperation with India, including successful collaborations like the Su-30MKI fighter jet. HAL's discussions with Russian counterparts likely focus on co-development and potential local production of engines, possibly including the AL-31F, which powers the Su-30MKI. This could involve incorporating Indian-made components and increasing self-reliance in engine manufacturing.

The delays in F-404 engine deliveries from GE Aerospace, attributed to global supply chain disruptions, have impacted the production timeline of the 83 Tejas Mk1A jets ordered by the Indian Air Force (IAF). This situation highlights the risks associated with relying heavily on imported components for critical defence programs.

The Tejas Mk1A program is already operating on a tight schedule, aiming to deliver the first aircraft to the IAF by 2025. Any engine change at this stage would likely jeopardize this timeline.

While a complete engine switch for the Tejas Mk1A seems improbable at this point, HAL's exploration of Russian engine options underscores the importance of diversifying supply chains and fostering self-reliance in defense technology.

 

[R. Singh]

Don't go for Russian engine for Tejas-1A other wise it will a another flying coffin in making !

 

[sanket]

I dont think it for Tejas MK1A, But for Super sukhoi Engine

 

[abhinav srivastava]

For Tejas MK2 and AMCA get a non US engine.

 

[Radha Ramanan]

That is impossible given the changes in thrust and center of gracity of the engine and and the redoing the whole engine bay.

 

[Dredd]

he should concentrate his effor on evaluating new variant of AL31 engine with 6000 hours life or Advanced AL41 engine options for future Su30MKI requirements.

 

[DB_NE_Guy]

Kaveria was Plan A, it failed
F-404 was Plan B, it also almost failed
This Russian Engine is Plan C.....

Plan B, C should have been simultaneously chalked out if possible knowing that we can never trust US.

Lost of time will be the price we have to pay for our lack of foresightedness.

 

[Abhishek Kumar]

Who told you to use an American engine in Tejas? Why not a French engine? Now wasting time on a Russian engine.

 

[Bikramjeet Goswami]

That is impossible given the changes in thrust and center of gracity of the engine and and the redoing the whole engine bay.

It isn't impossible. Would take a lot of time and money - both of which are in short supply.

 

[Pad UwU]

Why not license copy improve version of al41f engine instead and remodeling the Tejas mk1a and 2 to accommodate it and fix the weight balance plus strengthen the the frame and etc.,

waiting for f404 engine with no reliable exact delivery is a big mess.... We already in big trouble waiting Tejas mk1a LMAO 😹😹😹

 

[Shiva]

Exactly. HAL is interested in Russian kits that were critical components for AL-31FP engine. Previously anticipated 500 to 1000 engines for replacing existing engines. But right now, we need more than 2000 engines or so. So, such a high volume of Russian kits in short period, is the key requirement for which approval and orders from higher authority is needed. Probably India is wokring on this.
Already HAL acquired enough capacity to produce in bulk, Su-30MKI.
So, using these kits, first it will manufacture Su-30MKI and then will convert them to Super Sukoi and also will enhance additional features of AMCA related to electronics, sensors, weapons etc accordingly.

 

[Akhil]

I dont think it for Tejas MK1A, But for Super sukhoi Engine

It is for SU-75, MK2, TEDBF and AMCA, talks are going on to make a derivative engine of AL-51.

 

[AK S]

Who told you to use an American engine in Tejas? Why not a French engine? Now wasting time on a Russian engine.

Well, it's a collective decision with IAF and MoD in driving seat.

Second it was cheapest and yet most powerful in the class. France never had any matching engine - they max out at 75KN. Russian engines are not so good for single engine fighters.

 

[Akshat]

It is for SU-75, MK2, TEDBF and AMCA, talks are going on to make a derivative engine of AL-51.

Not in India for sure. India wants nothing to do with Russian engines now, except where there is no alternative whatsoever (that is, Russian already bought by us by mistake in the past).

 

[Akshat]

Why not license copy improve version of al41f engine instead and remodeling the Tejas mk1a and 2 to accommodate it and fix the weight balance plus strengthen the the frame and etc.,

waiting for f404 engine with no reliable exact delivery is a big mess.... We already in big trouble waiting Tejas mk1a LMAO 😹😹😹

Because India has seen how useless Russian engines are. Secondly, India doesn’t trust Russia anymore when it comes to weapons.

 

[Akshat]

Well, it's a collective decision with IAF and MoD in driving seat.

Second it was cheapest and yet most powerful in the class. France never had any matching engine - they max out at 75KN. Russian engines are not so good for single engine fighters.

IAF had nothing to do with it. It was used only and only because the idiotic DRDO workers had no idea what to do with Kaveri and made an utter junk. DRDO appointed consultant said that the whole hot core was absolutely trash and had to be changed, can you believe that? After 3 decades nothing in the hot core worked? That’s why we were forced to use American engines.

 

[Muthukumar Ponnambalam]

OMG. IS THIS REAL OR SURREAL, I MEAN?

Looks like HAL has its hands on Russian engine for about 20 or so years and it didn't learn anything? ANY DAMN THING? AT ALL?

EVEN NOW, YOU GUYS DON'T HAVE ANY PLANS FOR KAVERI ? BRHMOS SEEMS TO HAVE SAID IT HAS DESIGNED AN AFTERBURNER FOR KAVERI THAT GIVES AN ADDITIONAL 30 kN THRUST.

Are you guys planning to pursue that or not?

PMO SHOULD INTERVENE, SO URGENTLY AND VERY VERY URGENTLY.

When ISRO can achieve success after success despite similar hurdles and restrictions under PMO, I'm sure, so will HAL, DRDO, GTRE etc. if brought under the direct supervision and monitoring of PMO.

 

[desigandu]

GE404 is a self goal and our own IAF+HAL+MOD are 80% responsible for this screw up…Of course GE+ Supply Chain and Covid are also responsible but this is a classic case of pathetic planning and execution with no contingencies…
Now we are screwed and at the mercy of GE with no quick solutions available…Hopefully this will ensure that Kaveri2 is heavily funded, accelerated so at least a 85-90Kn engine is ready for replacement for Mk1As and other programs at least by 2035!

 

[Rinku Pandey]

Well, it's a collective decision with IAF and MoD in driving seat.

Second it was cheapest and yet most powerful in the class. France never had any matching engine - they max out at 75KN. Russian engines are not so good for single engine fighters.

IAF has no say in this. MOD and HAL promised mk1A with Kaveri. Once Kaveri failed GOI, HAL ran to GE for engines and that too knowing they were not in production anymore.

 

[sandy 007]

I dont think it for Tejas MK1A, But for Super sukhoi Engine

I think India is surely trying to use Russian engine with second option for the tejas MK2 , HLFT Marut and AMCA because of US Sanction in future. All credit goes to US because of US old fox habit. India will never take second chance with US policies of fooling.

 

[Rinku Pandey]

GE404 is a self goal and our own IAF+HAL+MOD are 80% responsible for this screw up…Of course GE+ Supply Chain and Covid are also responsible but this is a classic case of pathetic planning and execution with no contingencies…
Now we are screwed and at the mercy of GE with no quick solutions available…Hopefully this will ensure that Kaveri2 is heavily funded, accelerated so at least a 85-90Kn engine is ready for replacement for Mk1As and other programs at least by 2035!

IAF has no say in this. MOD and HAL promised mk1A with Kaveri. Once Kaveri failed GOI, HAL ran to GE for engines and that too knowing they were not in production anymore. Why blame IAF?

 

[sandy 007]

I dont think it for Tejas MK1A, But for Super sukhoi Engine

It looks to me US has come to know that India is surely not going to buy out dated US military jets and that is why so many hurdles US is putting and i hope that Russia might offer SU 57 technology and production line and it can be SU 30's upgradation agreement, and Engine related deals for AL 31 engine and perhaps complete technology transfer of AL 31 FP engine not only this that is for additional SU 30 kits and Complete TOT.

 

[AK S]

IAF had nothing to do with it. It was used only and only because the idiotic DRDO workers had no idea what to do with Kaveri and made an utter junk. DRDO appointed consultant said that the whole hot core was absolutely trash and had to be changed, can you believe that? After 3 decades nothing in the hot core worked? That’s why we were forced to use American engines.

I’m not talking about French Air Force or Safran. Besides French never had a engine with more than 75KN of thrust. So … French influence peddlers can only feel jealous.

Well Kaveri is almost there with flat rated 73KN thrust. Kaveri 2.0 is likely to be closer to 80KN. Shedding another 200Kg is the real issue. Hopefully with local manufactureing of F414, we’d have enough expertise in materials to cover the weight gap too. Next decade is important. Let’s see if Govt invests this time.

We are paying the price of stopping the funding of Kaveri about 15 years back.

 

[VedantaKiran]

Manufacture and roll out 83 Tejas MK1A aircraft using GE F404 engines. In the meantime test and manufacure the Russian engines for the remaining 97 Tejas MK1A aircraft.

This will send out a strong message to Americans and also ensure we have a Plan B in case of either American or Russia creating issues to deliver the engines to India.

 

[AK S]

IAF has no say in this. MOD and HAL promised mk1A with Kaveri. Once Kaveri failed GOI, HAL ran to GE for engines and that too knowing they were not in production anymore.

It was always F404 including first flight of Tejas. It was not an afterthought or after the so called failure of Kaveri or cutting off the funding for it way back in 2007-08.

 

[AK S]

IAF has no say in this. MOD and HAL promised mk1A with Kaveri. Once Kaveri failed GOI, HAL ran to GE for engines and that too knowing they were not in production anymore. Why blame IAF?

Please fact-check. Tejas always flew on F404 including its first flight. Kaveri was critically underfunded … maybe an order of ten. Even that stopped way back in 2007-08. Even with those levels of funding and no industrial base, it produces 73KN of flat rated thrust. Not good enough for sure. Certified only for limited envelope flight. Fairly overweight … even in current iteration and progresses in materials, need to she’d another 200kgs. Certainly not a report card that you present on their behalf and want others to believe.

And current focus is to certify the existing core on an LSP add in parallel add new afterburner to the improved dry core. Though it’s still seriously underfunded and we continue to pay the price.

Dry core of 2.0 is nearly producing flat rated 51KN and shed about 225 kgs. Work is on for new afterburner at Brahmos. With decent level of ToT in F414 and its local manufacturing, our expertise will grow and should be able to shed another 200 odd kgs while improving the efficiency of the afterburner.

Let’s see.

 

[Sandeep]

India isn’t going to use any Russian engines for Tejas MK1A as it would delay the timeline even further. HAL just has to keep production going and install the engines as soon as possible.

Also they should start producing the Tejas MK2 and AMCA prototypes as those two jets are the main important fighters which we can use on offensive missions.

 

[DEVESH]

That is impossible given the changes in thrust and center of gracity of the engine and and the redoing the whole engine bay.

May be its just to put pressure on Americans

 

[bonito]

If GE Transport can arm twist India to buy 1000 GE locomotive Diesel engines while we said we will go for Electric ones, this delay to force us to disengage from Russia is nothing