Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) News and Discussion

[Manav Rastogi]

Greetings, aviation and defence enthusiasts!

The Indian aerospace scene is buzzing with excitement as development of the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) progresses. As a fifth-generation fighter, the AMCA is poised to be a game-changer, boasting cutting-edge stealth technology, advanced avionics, and impressive maneuverability.

Why AMCA Matters​

• Indigenous Innovation: This is a major step forward for India's self-reliance in defence technology.
• Military Capability: The AMCA promises to significantly boost the Indian Air Force's air superiority and strike capabilities.
• Economic Impact: The project involves collaboration with various public and private sector entities, stimulating growth in the aerospace industry.

Let's Dive Deeper​

I'd love to hear your thoughts and insights on the following aspects:

• Technical Specifications: What are the key features and capabilities we know so far? How does the AMCA compare to other fifth-generation fighters?
• Development Timeline: What's the latest on the project's progress? Are there any challenges or hurdles we should be aware of?
• Strategic Implications: How will the AMCA influence India's military strategy and its position in the region?
• Economic and Industrial Impact: How is the AMCA program contributing to the growth of India's aerospace sector? What opportunities does it present for businesses and professionals?

I'm eager to kick off this discussion and learn from your diverse perspectives. Let's explore the potential of the AMCA and its implications for India and the world!

 

[team]

France's Safran is Racing Ahead in Foreign Partner Selection for AMCA Engine Development​

India is getting close to a pivotal point in the engine selection process for its ambitious Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) programme, which aims to create a fifth-generation fighter jet. Although talks with possible partners are ongoing at the Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), the French company Safran appears to be leading the competition.

A high-thrust engine in the 110–120kN class is needed for the AMCA programme; this engine must be far stronger than the ones India's fighter planes currently utilise. In order to ensure both competence and timely delivery, GTRE is actively seeking collaboration with a foreign partner to co-develop this crucial technology.

According to sources with knowledge of the programme, Safran is leading the engine cooperation talks right now. The French aerospace company has a wealth of experience in the development and production of high-thrust engines, such as the M88 that powers India's already-inducted Rafale fighter plane. Safran's established track record and current collaboration establish them as a strong competitor.

Although Safran appears to be leading the way, British Rolls-Royce is still competing. The Eurofighter Typhoon, another fifth-generation fighter jet, is powered by the company's EJ200 engine, so its presence in the competition cannot be overlooked.

Irrespective of the foreign partner selected, it is anticipated that HAL, the state-owned aerospace corporation of India, will be declared the domestic engine manufacturing partner for the AMCA programme. HAL has the necessary experience and equipment to produce jet engines already, having produced engines such as the RD-33 and AL-31F under licence.

The final conclusion in the engine selection process is anticipated to be made public by the middle of 2024. By clearing the path for engine development and eventual integration into the fighter jet, this will represent a major turning point for the AMCA programme.

 

[team]

AMCA Will Have Features of 6th Generation Aircraft, Making it “5.5 Generation”​

India may have lagged behind in adopting 5th generation fighter jets, but the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) offers a sneak peak at 6th generation characteristics.

The outgoing head of the ADA, Girish Deodhare, and former Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhadauria provide intriguing insights into the possibilities of the AMCA, pointing to technology that may be approaching sixth generation.

It's interesting that Deodhare refers to the AMCA as a "5.5 generation" aircraft. It represents the incorporation of state-of-the-art characteristics that are not yet present in Fifth Generation aircraft in service but are expected to be crucial components of the Sixth Generation fighters that major powers will produce in the future.

This sets India up for an interesting journey whereby it may not only catch up with 5th generation technological breakthroughs, but perhaps surpass them.

Regarding the AMCA's timeline, Bhadauria presents a positive image. He anticipates that the aircraft will receive its Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) in ten years, which will enable the AMCA MkI to be produced.

By then, work on the enhanced 110kN thrust engine of the AMCA MkII may have begun, further establishing Indian supremacy in fighter jet technology.

By concentrating on future-proof technologies, India may be able skip a generation and yet have strong air power. With its combination of elements from the fifth and sixth generations, the AMCA may offer a tactical advantage in the future.

Although there are still obstacles to overcome, the AMCA programme has made significant strides. India's emphasis on indigenous development not only promotes self-sufficiency but also opens the possibility to home-grown technological advancements.

As AMCA takes shape, it is expected to be more than just a fighter jet; it may represent India's growing strength in the international aerospace community.

 

[team]

Discussions Going on With Safran for AMCA Engine Development, But Other Options are Also Open: DRDO Chief​

India's fighter jets are a source of great excitement. The nation's Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) programme is also generating much expectation due to the ongoing discussion over the aircraft's engine.

The recent remark from DRDO Chairman Dr. Samir V Kamat, which acknowledged talks with Safran over engine development but left other alternatives open, highlights the crucial juncture that India finds itself in as it strives for aerial dominance.

“We have been in discussions with Safran for developing the engine for AMCA. But these are still under discussion,” Kamat said, leaving the door open for further possible collaborators.

This methodical approach shows India's dedication to determining the best course of action for its next-generation fighter jet, one that strikes a balance between strategic and technological factors.

Safran is an established French aerospace company with significant future prospects, yet competition is still very strong. The UK's Rolls-Royce and the US's GE have both made compelling offers for co-development, each bringing unique skills and technology to the table.

The decision is significant for India since it will help the country become a leader in next-generation fighter aircraft technology as well as ensure the success of the AMCA programme.

Rolls-Royce has a track record of successfully developing engines for some of the most powerful fighter jets in the world, such as the Eurofighter Typhoon. With its remarkable thrust-to-weight ratio, its EJ200 derivative engine might provide the AMCA with greater agility and manoeuvrability.

In addition, Rolls-Royce's experience in integrating engines across diverse platforms may facilitate the AMCA's procedure, thereby potentially reducing the duration of the development cycle.

GE, an American giant, has a lot of experience making cutting-edge engine technologies, like the F135 that powers the F-35 Lightning II. Through partnership with GE, the AMCA may be able to take use of cutting-edge technologies like improved fuel economy and stealth capabilities.

In addition, GE's extensive network of partners worldwide may provide crucial assistance for maintenance and production, ensuring the AMCA program's long-term viability.

 

[RonitBisht]

South Korea and Turkey Make Strides in 5th Generation Fighter Jets Development, India's AMCA Program Lags​

• South Korea and Turkey have achieved significant milestones in their 5th generation fighter jet programs, KF-21 and TF-X.
• These programs have received national priority status, enabling faster development and overcoming bureaucratic hurdles.
• India's AMCA program, despite its need for advanced fighter aircraft, appears to be lagging behind.
• The program is hampered by unclear timelines, indecision about key aspects like engine development and private sector participation.
• The lead agencies, DRDO and ADA, are unable to provide concrete milestones, raising doubts about the program's readiness for mass production by 2035.
• India's AMCA program has the potential to be a game-changer, but its current trajectory is worrisome.
• Addressing the program's key challenges can help India achieve its goal of developing a cutting-edge 5th generation fighter jet.

 

[Mithu Roy]

First learn to make a proper single engine 4.5 generation fighter in Tejas mark 2 then,make a twin engine fighter better than rafale after that dream of 5 th generation fighter

 

[NSR]

India should have given green light to Tejas Mk 2 and AMCA right after Tejas IA FOC because India signed contract for 99 GE F-414INS6 engines about a decade ago with about 50-60% TOT.
GE even shipped 10+ shipsets of F-414 engines.

Instead India sat on its A R S E and did no development work at all.
Foolish decisions will come haunting it.

I am sure India will be happy throw away $30 to 40 billions on Rafale and Rafale-M fighters saying that they are 6th generation fighters and will save India.

Land of wonders !!!

 

[bonito]

National priority programs. That's how you get to do.

 

[BnglrTester]

Indians are foolish people who cannot startegise, plan or manage. No wonder we were under foreign occupation for close to 1000 years. Most of the masses are corrupt and brainwashed. The system needs a drastic shock therapy. Either a disastrous defeat in a war, or an authoritative takeover forcing change and stopping of chaotic democracy would help.

 

[Kailash]

I am sure India will be happy throw away $30 to 40 billions on Rafale and Rafale-M fighters saying that they are 6th generation fighters and will save India.

Very true.

Most countries cant afford stealth, so instead they started upgrading the active and passive sensors, use multi-band radars, networking them and finding ways of detecting stealth cheap. I think with the available AD cover given by S300/S400s and the Rafale I don't think Chinese 5th gen fighters are a great concern. You can call the IAF/MoD as stingy bean counters, or slow, or not proactively enough, but they are not dumb. The minimum idea of self defense and self preservation is very much their forte...

Besides, how relevant a 5th Gen fighter will be against a highly networked Pak or Chin is the million dollar question...

 

[INDIAN]

Current government is also doing the same mistake, funding issues, no clear cut direction, similar nations like South Korea , Turkey is marching ahead , and here we are just talking and talking.

They day news will come that Pakistan has acquired Fifth generation fighters from China or Turkey, then we will run like jokers all over the world for imports.

Buck lies on the door of PMO , PMO should directly monitor the progress of these strategic system.

 

[Satya Dev]

Meanwhile for HAL babus it's business as usual - no urgency - 9am to 5pm interspersed with breaks - tea 9.30am - coffee 11am - lunch 12.30 to 1.30pm - noon tea 2.30pm - noon coffee 4pm!

 

[Aayush Dhaundiyal]

It ia difficult to comprehend a point of time where mk1a, II and Amca all will on production line simultaneously when HAL is struggling to extend the rate of 1A only.

 

[MANIVANNAN N]

National importance? What is that? We are happy with upgrading Tejas to mk2. We will put huge fund in mk2 and enjoy by cheating government.

 

[venkat]

Zero confidence in drdo or the govt to do what is right

 

[nakul1307]

Give Defence portfolio to Gadkari next time. He gets things done.

 

[MANIVANNAN N]

The fund used on mk2 actually enough for amca development. The drdo expanded mk2 project and wasting money in single engine fighter. No stradegic importance in this fighter. Easy improvements and success rate high so aiming that. Ignoring amca and putting iaf in dangerous condition. Ignoring challenges also just happy with. 4th gen fighter. No goovt. Fault. All game by drdo and hal.

 

[War is good for business]

Meanwhile for HAL babus it's business as usual - no urgency - 9am to 5pm interspersed with breaks - tea 9.30am - coffee 11am - lunch 12.30 to 1.30pm - noon tea 2.30pm - noon coffee 4pm!

Until one realizes that it is the same for every single organization that ever existed.

 

[Kira]

These two countries had actual experience with real 5th Gen fighter program like the F-35,as they were partner nations from early on,so had a pretty good idea what technologies were required and how to integrate and produce them.

India on the other hand does not know anything about actual 5th Gen program given very limited interaction with the Su-57,which itself is not wholly 5th Gen in its truest sense, besides HAL has no experience with managing and producing a complex stealth jet given that it even struggles to put together a simple light 4th gen jet like Tejas.

That is why I am always advocating for a handful squadrons of F-35s,so to gain some first hand experience with 5th Gen jets from limited technical know-how to actual maintenance and operations.

 

[Superpower Bharat]

First learn to make a proper single engine 4.5 generation fighter in Tejas mark 2 then,make a twin engine fighter better than rafale after that dream of 5 th generation fighter

Did turkey have that experience...???

 

[Superpower Bharat]

The fund used on mk2 actually enough for amca development. The drdo expanded mk2 project and wasting money in single engine fighter. No stradegic importance in this fighter. Easy improvements and success rate high so aiming that. Ignoring amca and putting iaf in dangerous condition. Ignoring challenges also just happy with. 4th gen fighter. No goovt. Fault. All game by drdo and hal.

Really., did u know what amount spend on J-20 or KA-50... Or in su-57.. first get the knowledge

 

[Ranjeet Singh]

Better we ink deal to make India specific F-35s or Su-57 here in India under MRFA it will help ADA/HAL to reduce gestation period of AMCA !

 

[Sunny]

Though we probably lack the technical knowhow to develop fighter aircrafts on our own the main issue is indecision by the government no matter which party is in power. Without timely backing and will almost all our defense programs are delayed.

 

[Frank]

First learn to make a proper single engine 4.5 generation fighter in Tejas mark 2 then,make a twin engine fighter better than rafale after that dream of 5 th generation fighter

changing DRDO to DARPA wont change anything

THE DRDO IS NOT THE PROBLEM...THE LOW IQ ENGINEERS FROM 3RD TIER ENGINEERING C0LLEGES WORKING IN DRDO GTRE ADE HAL ARE THE PROBLEM...

JUST HIRE HIGH IQ B TECH STUDENTS FROM IIT. NOT M TECH NOT PHD ONLY B TECH.

OR JUST TOP 500 RANKERS OF JEE ADVANCED. THEY WILL GIVE YOU JET ENGINE IN 4/5 YEARS.

Current situation is both DRDO and private companies hire only engineer from 3rd tier engineering colleges, hence no results

Also does not Matter it's DRDO or private company, until they hire high IQ B Tech students from IIT.. Nothing will change.

Main reason of DPSU failure

1. Not hiring top high IQ people from IIT
2. No accountability

If DPSU hires top 500 rankers of Jee advanced, we will get jet engine, Submarines in less than 5 years

THATS THE ONLY SOLUTION THATS THE ONLY SOLUTIOn

 

[NSR]

I think with the available AD cover given by S300/S400s and the Rafale I don't think Chinese 5th gen fighters are a great concern. You can call the IAF/MoD as stingy bean counters, or slow, or not proactively enough, but they are not dumb.

Kailash, man, we badly need a twin-engine fighter and even a single engine Tejas Mk 2 development and manufacturing whether it is 4+ or 5th generation one to replace all of the twin engine fighters like SU-30MKIs, Mig-29UPGs, Jaguars, etc

We are definitely far behind in fighter and UAV/Drone development to say the least.

If we develop LRSAM, ERSAM and XRSAM quickly, and manufacture them and deploy soon then may be we will have some Defensive Forte to rely on.
Looking at Ukraine war, I am not sure about the real performance of S-400.

 

[yogesh]

Reference the article, a steady progress means that we are learning and applying ourselves.

The countries mentioned herein have created the necessary infrastructure for defense production which we are doing now on scale.

It isn't fair to compare with others because there may be different reasons for enhanced performance.

One of the important aspects to consider in any kind of product development is that of research work that goes into it.

Some people think that Indians don't have the ability to develop cutting edge technologies which is factually incorrect.

It is more about the enabling environment that facilitates design and development of platforms or products.

In all developed countries research work is accomplished in universities and usually defense forces also provide liberal grants for research in specific areas.

Unless our university campuses evolve into truly multi disciplinary, interdisciplinary and transdisciplinary study we will be missing out on important aspects of "features " that are required for product development.

It is these features that makes products cutting edge because it is this aspect of research work that needs to be incorporated into projects/programs.

We are not stupid but instead lack the missing bits and pieces of knowledge which is always a university program.

Even developing an open source software with all the bells and whistles is about incorporating those research features into products or platforms.

No, we are not stupid but we need both time & money to research within an environment that pushes us to achieve big and create innovative solutions/features which then can be part of development activities.

Let's not compare but instead chart a course for excellence in each district of the country

 

[VKP]

If you are learning curve , it will take time. Instead of making noise

 

[sri hari Kumar]

THE DRDO IS NOT THE PROBLEM...THE LOW IQ ENGINEERS FROM 3RD TIER ENGINEERING C0LLEGES WORKING IN DRDO GTRE ADE HAL ARE THE PROBLEM...

you must be day dreaming. as high IQ students they are not hanging out they all fly away and do mundane thiings in lala land

 

[beencensured]

Until one realizes that it is the same for every single organization that ever existed.

In private, they get fired if that is all they do. HAL union is strong as GOI cannot even say anything to the employees.

 

[MANIVANNAN N]

Current situation is both DRDO and private companies hire only engineer from 3rd tier engineering colleges, hence no results

Oh super. Mylsamy annadurai, veeramuthuvel, tessythomas, Vanitha, all coming from iit? They doing extraordinary. Just with normal colleges. Change yr mindset bro.