Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) News and Discussion

[beencensured]

Indian speciality in cost control

Hardly any money is spent in R&D, and then when spent it is done so stingily. But lucky Indian scientist have brain, but sadly they cannot experiment like their peers.

 

[Anurag]

What is the percent of indigenous content by value in our indigenous HAL Tejas Mk-1? Which our good engineers at HAL have been developing since its first flight in 2000, almost 24 years ago?

What about the money spent on the program itself that's questionable but people's criticism is always on a company which itself has a poor work culture but their is not always their fault only!!

 

[Anurag]

I'd prefer a "No HAL" approach over a "low cost" approach for AMCA any day.

Yeah man but no one agree with you like Mod, IAF, GoI itself and they are the main people who takes decision, use the product and overall spender.
Nothing matter at last!!

 

[Sandeep]

This jet is a critical necessity as we need to develop the technology and increase our air and firepower to protect our country. The $1.18 billion is just to develop and produce 5 jets but when production increases the price per jet will reduce for both of the AMCA MK1 and MK2 variants when large orders are placed.

One crucial point is that India shouldn't just look at the cost per jet and just look for the cheapest option possible. We need to spend the money if we want to develop the advanced technology, building materials and machinery to build several production lines. We should also see this as a long term investment as most of the materials, products or content that they will use will be sourced indigenously. This helps our market and military industry to grow as most of the money will be spent indigenously rather than paying expensive foreign costs.

 

[Bharat007]

They HAVE BEEN developing this technology(AMCA) since 2008. They have made every engineering drawing for every part. It will be fifth generational and better then Su-57 and compete with f-22. There is no hype in AMCA, only needs make prototype and test it. Even Tejas mk1a(one most highly composite fighter jet in market) has reduced rcs, so expecting AMCA to be better and as stealth will not be some giant leap.

I doubt that there is no hype in AMCA. I'm sure the AMCA prototype will be 4.5 instead of 5th generation, just like the TAI Kaan and KF-21. This prototype will have to be tested and polished further to ensure that it is truly is 5th generation. To be truly a stealth, fighter jets need to be flight tested in real life. Only then through further improvements and feedbacks it can achieve desirable result. Comparisons with Tejas make no sense at all because Tejas is smaller in size, which reduces its RCS.

 

[Bharat007]

They HAVE BEEN developing this technology(AMCA) since 2008. They have made every engineering drawing for every part. It will be fifth generational and better then Su-57 and compete with f-22. There is no hype in AMCA, only needs make prototype and test it. Even Tejas mk1a(one most highly composite fighter jet in market) has reduced rcs, so expecting AMCA to be better and as stealth will not be some giant leap.

While the goal may be to develop a fifth-generation prototype, it's common for initial prototypes to undergo further refinement and testing to reach full fifth-generation capabilities. The process typically involves iterative improvements based on testing feedback and technological advancements. This iterative approach is crucial for ensuring that the final production version achieves the desired fifth-generation standards.

 

[Bharat007]

Very Nice news in the Morning some where saying Indigenous content is not even 50% ,so this is eye opener for them .secondly couple of days i said other ongoing 5th gen project are 4.75 generation Fighter jet the author corrected into 4.5th Gen.KHAN even not yet developed its aero-engine so Final Block of so called 4.75 Gen Steath Fighter may b inducted post 2030 . its time line is matching with AMCA.Taking First flight isdoent mean its production ready .F-35 still have some problems.AMCA MK1 apart from Low cost Funding it will b 5.5th Gen & AMCA MK2 will b Gth Gen Features. India is doing best by not joining any offers of Sixth Gen Stealth Fighter project.

Initial prototypes of fighter jets, even when designed with fifth-generation features, often require further development and testing to fully realize their fifth-generation capabilities. Therefore, it's not accurate to belittle prototypes like the TAI Kaan and KF-21 by labeling them as merely 4.5 generation. These aircraft have the potential to evolve into true fifth-generation fighters through iterative improvements and testing.

 

[Amit Dangwal]

GOOD mind Played.. There is no cost effective approach.. Budget escalation will follow..

 

[Pink Panther]

Even till date Dasault havent produce more than 16 Rafale per year there production capacity is under 20 , at the moment they are going with 13 per year. How Indian pvt players can produce 500 Jets witin in Ten years it will b 50 per year . Only in Dreams it will happen Pvt players are not ready for SPV model for AMCA Production.

Only 6-8/year on an average, they rarely make 13-16/ year when they do overtime.

 

[desigandu]

Cost is important but like all good things in life capability costs money...Yes, Bharat can do it cheaper than most, but can we do it better and faster is the question...Historically, we haven't but let us work towards changing the paradigm...First of all the AMCA-Mk1 and even Mk-2, have large capability gaps (my opinion) in the planning stage - no rear stealth, no super maneuverability, or super cruise in Mk-1s, etc...Question - could we have aimed higher at least with Mk-2 with our own high thrust engines (130KN)...Also what is our thinking beyond AMCA - we need to start thinking and have plans in place so latest by 2030 we are working actively on 6th GEN, if not then we should evaluate joining the GACP program now, provided Japan+UK+Italy are willing and able to provided us equity/partnership and work share...I think accelerating AMCA with fixing capabilities in Mk-2 and joining GCAP may be good options.

 

[venkat]

Koreans have realistic requirements, budget and firm dates. India has unobtaium ever changing requirements, no budget or cheapass budget and timelines on the whim of DrDO chairman or HAL chairman who lie at every opportunity

 

[Guru]

In conclusion Indian public sector companies and their employees have an assured future and pensions. They know if they fail it's ok. India can look to France or Russia for foreign maal.

 

[Pad UwU]

Nice dream... AMCA from initial price of $100m to $60m seems like utterly impossible 🤔🧐
Then why would we continue Tejas mk1a if sooner or later AMCA would be cheaper at $60m🤭😺
This continuity of bad PR is hilarious.... Comparing SK $7b budget and Turkiye's $3b 5gen budget to our meager less $2b😹😹😹😹 so that's the reason why India's 5gen is lagging behind to others because of it's small funding 🙃

 

[Pad UwU]

I want more prototypes to be made under AMCA mk1 to Fastrack the testing period. KF21 program even though -5 gen have 6 prototypes.

AMCA is still a 5gen only in papers and that's our current reality 😹😹😹
Funding it for a meager less than $2b show's that's why up until now we can't see it's prototype 🤭😺

 

[Pad UwU]

This article is full of oversimplifying and belittling success of others when one doesn't even have similar prototypes yet. Even TAI KAAN prototype is not 5th Gen Jet despite having stealth design features. It takes years of further polishing to make a jet truly stealth. Same goes with that South Korean one. As far as I know, India is building AMCA from scratch without foreign assistant. It is likely, India with limited stealth tech knowledge know how first prototype will not be 5 gen rather a 4.5.

Very true but many here are blinded by the propaganda of AMCA as way beyond 5gen only in paper😹😹😹
And our dang goodie ol so military expert's belittling others success.... While us still day dreaming 🤭

 

[Pad UwU]

They HAVE BEEN developing this technology(AMCA) since 2008. They have made every engineering drawing for every part. It will be fifth generational and better then Su-57 and compete with f-22. There is no hype in AMCA, only needs make prototype and test it. Even Tejas mk1a(one most highly composite fighter jet in market) has reduced rcs, so expecting AMCA to be better and as stealth will not be some giant leap.

Developing on paper and CGI as 5gen, but til now no prototype

 

[beencensured]

I doubt that there is no hype in AMCA. I'm sure the AMCA prototype will be 4.5 instead of 5th generation, just like the TAI Kaan and KF-21. This prototype will have to be tested and polished further to ensure that it is truly is 5th generation. To be truly a stealth, fighter jets need to be flight tested in real life. Only then through further improvements and feedbacks it can achieve desirable result. Comparisons with Tejas make no sense at all because Tejas is smaller in size, which reduces its RCS.

A person does not know an iota talk out of head. Tejas is highly composite fighter aircraft unlike your nonsense prototypes. Now, answer why they have been working on AMCA since 2008.

 

[Santosh Kumar pal]

India should choose GE 145 kn jet engine for AMCA 5th generation fighter jets.
But, I do believe AMCA is a "Daydream" project of lndia.

 

[bonito]

Considering the only country that has a true stealth jet is USA, I really doubt the AMCA is outdated.

Not now, but the induction happens in 2040.

 

[Alok Gupta]

What is the percent of indigenous content by value in our indigenous HAL Tejas Mk-1? Which our good engineers at HAL have been developing since its first flight in 2000, almost 24 years ago?

Beta itna kyon fudak raheho. KF-21 and KAAN, both have significant amount of foreign parts. Even the Amercan F-35 is not wholy American. It has parts mad ein different countries. Beside Russia, and France no other country makes a fully 100% indeginous fighter jet. Please don't mention China because 75% of their technology is stolen or copied. India is just noe getting intot the game and achieving 65% content is a great achievement. Once the radar is indiginised, that will bring the content up to 75%. Once the new engine is developed, by then the other sensors etc will also be indeginised and India will have a 100% Indian jet. There may be a lot of doubters on this board, but I am confident that in 10 years, India is headed that way.

 

[PROVerified member]

GTRE Seeks IAF Support for Flight Testing of Engines Critical to AMCA and UCAV​

India's Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is making strides in indigenous engine development.

The Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) is leading two crucial programs: the Dry Kaveri engine for Unmanned Remotely Piloted Strike Aircraft and a new 110kN engine for the ambitious 5th generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) project.

The Challenge of Flight Testing​

While engine development progresses, GTRE faces a major obstacle: the lack of a dedicated flying testbed for critical in-flight trials. Initially, GTRE proposed purchasing a Russian IL-76 Transporter for this purpose, but the plan failed to materialize.

An Innovative Solution​

Demonstrating resourcefulness, GTRE has turned to the Indian Air Force (IAF) for support. They seek to use in-service IL-76 aircraft as flying testbeds for both engine programs.

This would encompass testing the Dry Kaveri, the proposed afterburning Kaveri engine for the LCA-Tejas Mk1A, and the engine designed for the AMCA. Utilizing existing IL-76s offers a practical and cost-effective solution.

Precedent and Strategic Importance​

Discussions between the DRDO and IAF are ongoing, but GTRE's past experience collaborating with Russia's Gromov Flight Research Institute (which modifies Il-76s for engine testing) supports the proposal's feasibility.

This cooperation has strategic significance. India's self-reliance in defence technology relies heavily on successful engine development. Using in-service IL-76s would accelerate GTRE's testing and development timelines.

Optimism and Collaboration​

As GTRE and the IAF discuss the proposal, optimism prevails.

This collaboration showcases India's commitment to self-sufficiency in defence technology, highlighting the nation's ambition to become a leading player in the aerospace industry.

 

[charminar_waale_ismail_bhai]

Do rei IL-76 inn ko.
If you don't invest and take risk, you won't reap any benefits.

 

[sanket]

it should happen Long before Testing Engine in Russia cost more waste of Time it will b easy if IAF agree to IL-76 sharing with GTRE for Testing various Engine From Dry to AMCA 110kN -120kN

 

[sanket]

it should happen Long before Testing Engine in Russia cost more waste of Time it will b easy if IAF agree to IL-76 sharing with GTRE for Testing various Engine From Dry to AMCA 110kN -120kN

without proper testing facility how one can develop Engine........???

 

[Akshat]

Forget FTB. First make an engine that works on ground. Then talk about air. This is just an excuse. They are free to test abroad whenever needed.

 

[NSR]

India can never go far without the acquisition of the following

1. IL-76 type of plane for high altitude flight test. Taking engines to Russia is no longer feasible or trustworthy.
2. Twin engine fighters like SU-30MKI, Mig-29 and Jaguar to flight test its fighter engine models. Even Dry Kaveri engine can be fitted in them and tested on ground runs and simple takeoffs and landings.

Not testing them in real scenarios will not beget India a fighter engine.

 

[Superpower Bharat]

Forget FTB. First make an engine that works on ground. Then talk about air. This is just an excuse. They are free to test abroad whenever needed.

Godrej is making dry Kaveri... performance got from prototype is more than expectation

 

[PARTHAJIT JANA]

I cant believe a nation which wants to have an engine of his own doesnt have its own flying test bed. Govt. Should create a seperate fund for creating test facilities, labs all over the country, in universities.

 

[Akshat]

Godrej is making dry Kaveri... performance got from prototype is more than expectation

Has anyone said that on record? Anyone other than the liars and cheaters at DRDO. Or has it been cleared for use on anything that flies?

 

[kumar]

And we had people parroting how kaveri failed and Yada Yada. Without even investing in basic test facilities, how can we expect jet engine to be developed.