Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) News and Discussion

[PRO]

India's Fighter Jet Dilemma: Does AMCA Signal the End of the MRFA?​

The Indian government's recent green light for the ambitious Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) program has sparked renewed debate about the long-delayed Multi-Role Fighter Aircraft (MRFA) tender.

This tender aims to procure 114 fighter jets from foreign manufacturers. Despite mounting pressure to abandon the MRFA in favor of indigenous production, sources close to the program suggest that scrapping the tender remains unlikely.

The MRFA: A Protracted Process​

The MRFA tender, designed to bolster India's dwindling fighter squadrons, has drawn interest from global aerospace giants. Each offers advanced aircraft to fulfill the Indian Air Force's (IAF) needs.

Yet, the tender's progress has been frustratingly slow. It remains stalled at the pre-Acceptance of Necessity (AoN) stage, leaving the IAF with a troubling shortage of fighter jets while domestic options like the AMCA and Tejas MkII remain under development.

The IAF strongly backs the MRFA's plan for 114 jets to be built in India with technology transfers. But the lack of a finalized deal signals a potentially lengthy journey to completion.

Alternative Paths: Government-to-Government Deals​

Amid this bureaucratic tangle, India's government isn't ruling out alternatives, specifically government-to-government (G2G) purchases.

This route could see India acquiring fighters directly from a favored manufacturer, like Dassault Aviation and its Rafale aircraft.

A G2G deal could significantly speed up procurement, providing the IAF with much-needed reinforcements.

AMCA: The Future vs. The Urgent Need​

The AMCA represents India's bold technological leap towards defence self-sufficiency. However, the IAF's urgent operational requirements must also be met. Calls to cancel the MRFA and focus entirely on domestic production ignore this immediate crisis.

A G2G deal needs careful analysis. India must balance cost, the fighter's capabilities compared to other MRFA contenders, and how it dovetails with India's long-term defence goals. The choice must prioritize combat effectiveness, dependable support, and affordability.

Conclusion​

The AMCA's approval highlights India's determination to build its own cutting-edge defence technology. Yet, the MRFA tender's uncertainty and the IAF's dwindling combat power create a complex dilemma.

The Indian government must navigate a delicate path, balancing future aspirations with the immediate necessity to bolster its air power. The final decision will have far-reaching implications for the IAF's capabilities and India's defence industry.

 

[Anant]

1. What exactly is there to debate? Unless HAL can somehow magically start producing 40 or so aircraft a year, MRFA is needed to ensure the IAF doesn't fall below a critically low strength and doesn't have a MiG-21 saga part 2.
2. It is not easily appreciated, but having a very small number of squadrons also means you tend to lose trained pilots very quickly. After all, fewer squadrons means lesser training and more pilots who aren't assigned to an active squadron.
3. "Production of Tejas Mk II and AMCA is still a year away": Say what now? Did I sleep for a decade or so suddenly? How exactly does that statement make anything close to the remotest semblance of sense? Mark my words: The Tejas Mk II is atleast half a decade away from Limited Series Production (let alone full production), and AMCA is atleast a decade away from that milestone. All of that assumes, of course, that the parties involved in development, testing, and manufacturing won't bring about any more delays, which, let's be honest, is a hopelessly optimistic assumption that will almost certainly prove to be unfounded.

 

[Deepak Hegde]

Lol ! debate ?? Only the author thinks so. For anyone with common sense, it is cleat that even today AMCA is no more than a fantasy. MRFA is absolutely necessary if India is serious about its security!

 

[shivkumar sinha]

Bharat should go for 36/54 Rafales through G to G deal and scrap MRFA. With sanction of Tejas Mark-2 and AMCA, MRFA is almost dead for good .

 

[Instant Karma]

No need of MRFA as within the same timeline, AMCA will be ready. Rafale will not be available before 2030 if we give orders now. F15, F21, MIG 35, GRIPPEN are already outdated by present technology standards.

So, best option is to spend money on AMCA and start manufacturing it as soon as possible.
Even if the AMCA matches the standards of
KF 21, still it will be far better than any of the fighters on offer in MRFA including Rafale.

 

[Ashutosh]

Needs of MRFA:

• pvt. company must and shall arise as an alternative to HAL, MRFA is a way to get pvt. sector involved in such manufacturing.
  Sol.n: either gov. manages to arrange a pvt. sector to manufacture Tejas mk2 or Pvt Sector must take the lead..... Ooopppsss !!ye kya puch liya Maine!?
• to sustain effective no. of squadrons : It will take LCA mk2 2-3 years to become a mature platform, Rafales would be ready to fight platform.

In any case, MRFA is still a need.
AMCA mk1 is not the answer of MRFA. AMCA must be inducted in limited numbers. 7 sq. are more than enough.

LCA mk2 can replace MRFA if it is fast- tracked...Ooopppsss!! Yeh kya puch lia Maine

If MRFA _fails _to conclude before 2026, then it must and shall be cancelled, and pvt sector shall be heavily outsourced for part manufacturing of LCA mk2

 

[sanket]

Very Lengthy process Musical chair of MRFA is on from 2005 till on & on.....knowing which plane to bought why this drama is going. Even 4 years ago if deal was struck G2G with Make in India First Batch would have delivered.

 

[Frank]

NO NEED FOR MRFA

NO NEED FOR PHOREN MAAL

200 TEJAS MK1 AND

400 TEJAS MK2 IS ENOUGH

 

[Abhinay Singh 48]

We should buy 100-150 SU -57 checkmate under MRFA program. We can't wait for 2035 to get a 5th generation aircraft
Pakistan will hardly buy 10-20 fifth generation fighter jet.

 

[Ashutosh]

No need of MRFA as within the same timeline, AMCA will be ready. Rafale will not be available before 2030 if we give orders now. F15, F21, MIG 35, GRIPPEN are already outdated by present technology standards.

So, best option is to spend money on AMCA and start manufacturing it as soon as possible.
Even if the AMCA matches the standards of
KF 21, still it will be far better than any of the fighters on offer in MRFA including Rafale.

U sure about that!?

First of all, if MRFA conclude then DRAL will be responsible as they would be locally manufactured.

Secondly, just what makes u think dominant fighters like F15 whose EX 2 is already here would be irrelevant in near future, given the world's strongest airforce is looking forward for their service atleast till 2060

Have u ever seen a stealth aircraft getting mass produced!?

F22 could not even cross the 200 mark and u want to operate so much numbers

 

[Frank]

Total nonsense

NO NEED FOR MRFA

NO NEED FOR PHOREN MAAL

200 TEJAS MK1 AND

200 TEJAS MK2 IS ENOUGh

 

[Arz786]

NO NEED FOR MRFA

NO NEED FOR PHOREN MAAL

200 TEJAS MK1 AND

400 TEJAS MK2 IS ENOUGH

You need 840 combat aircrafts. 200 LCA Mk1 and 200 LCA Mk2 makes 400 of them. Where do you think rest 440 aircrafts will come from ?

 

[Frank]

You need 840 combat aircrafts. 200 LCA Mk1 and 200 LCA Mk2 makes 400 of them. Where do you think rest 440 aircrafts will come from ?

200mk1
200mk2
280 Su
36 Rafale
100 Amca

More than enough

You can see in Russia Ukraine war..

Quantity of aircrafts is more important

We can buy 400tejas mk2 at the price of 114 rafele MRFA

 

[Ashutosh]

You need 840 combat aircrafts. 200 LCA Mk1 and 200 LCA Mk2 makes 400 of them. Where do you think rest 440 aircrafts will come from ?

840 is the atleast bro, still one can extend mk2 numbers to 500+ . Mk2 is an ORCA afterall.

 

[Ramsses CDXX]

MRFA = Rafale; MRFA ≠ AMCA, LCA Mk.I/II

The sooner we understand the better it is. So buy more Rafale, more Rafale, more Rafale,....

 

[Instant Karma]

U sure about that!?

First of all, if MRFA conclude then DRAL will be responsible as they would be locally manufactured.

Secondly, just what makes u think dominant fighters like F15 whose EX 2 is already here would be irrelevant in near future, given the world's strongest airforce is looking forward for their service atleast till 2060

Have u ever seen a stealth aircraft getting mass produced!?

F22 could not even cross the 200 mark and u want to operate so much numbers

F21, F15 are already 50 years old design and are very easy to track down due to very large RCS. Mig 35 is dead. Grippen is nothing better than Tejas. Rafale fighters will not be ready very soon due to supply constraints.

That only left Indegenous fighters.

 

[The_rED_dEVIL]

Needs of MRFA:

• pvt. company must and shall arise as an alternative to HAL, MRFA is a way to get pvt. sector involved in such manufacturing.
  Sol.n: either gov. manages to arrange a pvt. sector to manufacture Tejas mk2 or Pvt Sector must take the lead..... Ooopppsss !!ye kya puch liya Maine!?
• to sustain effective no. of squadrons : It will take LCA mk2 2-3 years to become a mature platform, Rafales would be ready to fight platform.

In any case, MRFA is still a need.
AMCA mk1 is not the answer of MRFA. AMCA must be inducted in limited numbers. 7 sq. are more than enough.

LCA mk2 can replace MRFA if it is fast- tracked...Ooopppsss!! Yeh kya puch lia Maine

If MRFA _fails _to conclude before 2026, then it must and shall be cancelled, and pvt sector shall be heavily outsourced for part manufacturing of LCA mk2

By 2040, India needs:-

1. 7 squadrons of MRFA (114 Rafale ofc, production in India)
2. 12 squadrons of Tejas Mk 2 (240 units at least, to replace MiG 29, Jaguar, Mirage 2000)
3. 10 squadros of Tejas Mk 1A (220 units; already on order)
4. 3 squadrons of AMCA Mk 1 (60 units)

And along with 2 Rafale and 10 Su 30 MKI squadrons already in service, IAF can reach 44 squadron strength.
Later Su 30 maybe replaced by AMCA Mk 2 (by 2045)

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

F21, F15 are already 50 years old design and are very easy to track down due to very large RCS. Mig 35 is dead. Grippen is nothing better than Tejas. Rafale fighters will not be ready very soon due to supply constraints.

That only left Indegenous fighters.

Rafales are to be produced in India under MRFA🤦.

U think u r smarter than decision makers of the world's strongest force!?

They are looking forward for F15 service till 2060.

 

[Bharat007]

Both MRFA and AMCA should be on the table. In case of AMCA being delayed due to unavoidable reasons then MRFA can be used to stop depleting SQ of IAF.

 

[Ashutosh]

By 2040, India needs:-

1. 7 squadrons of MRFA (114 Rafale ofc, production in India)
2. 12 squadrons of Tejas Mk 2 (240 units at least, to replace MiG 29, Jaguar, Mirage 2000)
3. 10 squadros of Tejas Mk 1A (220 units; already on order)
4. 3 squadrons of AMCA Mk 1 (60 units)

And along with 2 Rafale and 10 Su 30 MKI squadrons already in service, IAF can reach 44 squadron strength.
Later Su 30 maybe replaced by AMCA Mk 2 (by 2045)

2 sq. of AMCA mk1

AMCA can't replace Su 30. Su 30 is a multirole fighter ; AMCA is dedicated for CAS,SEAD and DEAD.

Su 30 must be replaced by Tejas mk2 ( advanced engine) or ORCA.

AMCA mk2 would be ur F22. Limited but lethal

 

[Bharat007]

Bharat should go for 36/54 Rafales through G to G deal and scrap MRFA. With sanction of Tejas Mark-2 and AMCA, MRFA is almost dead for good .

Makes sense. G2G deal will fastrack purchase.

 

[Bharat007]

No need of MRFA as within the same timeline, AMCA will be ready. Rafale will not be available before 2030 if we give orders now. F15, F21, MIG 35, GRIPPEN are already outdated by present technology standards.

What if AMCA is delayed further? It is difficult to trust Indian public sector.... Because of tarikh pe tarikh.

 

[Frank]

By 2040, India needs:-

1. 7 squadrons of MRFA (114 Rafale ofc, production in India)
2. 12 squadrons of Tejas Mk 2 (240 units at least, to replace MiG 29, Jaguar, Mirage 2000)
3. 10 squadros of Tejas Mk 1A (220 units; already on order)
4. 3 squadrons of AMCA Mk 1 (60 units)

And along with 2 Rafale and 10 Su 30 MKI squadrons already in service, IAF can reach 44 squadron strength.
Later Su 30 maybe replaced by AMCA Mk 2 (by 2045)

No
By 2040 IAF should have..

200 TEJAS MK1
200+TEJAS MK2
36 Rafale
280 Su 30
100 AMCA

45 Squadrans

More than enough

No need for MRFA

 

[Frank]

840 is the atleast bro, still one can extend mk2 numbers to 500+ . Mk2 is an ORCA afterall.

We can buy 400 Tejas mk2 at the price of MRFA

 

[Superpower Bharat]

My solution.... Search for 2nd engine for MK1A ( may be RD-93 or our own Kaveri- but for that full fund sanction for Kaveri including test facility and flying test bed).. increase next order from 97 to 150.. convince a pvt sector to manufacture around 80-90 aircraft... Tell them half of mk2 order will be manufactured there also.. and half of AMCA and TEDBF order also... If not full as SPV model... No mmrca this is the best solution...