Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) News and Discussion

[Instant Karma]

What if AMCA is delayed further? It is difficult to trust Indian public sector.... Because of tarikh pe tarikh.

HAL has good track record.

 

[Frank]

WOW! 400 mk2 will be 70 million @ best. You are saying real planes right & not models?

Mass manufacturing re tard..

F35 is under 100 million...

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

MRFA is a ready to combat jet. Production rate would be atleast 10 /year. Can Ind afford to wait for an indigenous fighter to mature for 5 years ?

MRFA is a ready combat jet, but its factory in India does not exist. The supply chain for the factory does not exist. The lead times for stuff like fighter jet parts is 2-3 years. It means after you give order, it takes 3 years to create it and deliver. Setting up supply chain in India will take at least 5 years.

 

[Ashutosh]

USA does not have options as their stealth fighters planes have failed.

USA is the only country possessing 5 th gen planes. The only thing they are bad is operational cost...but still they stand at top.

 

[Ashutosh]

MRFA is a ready combat jet, but its factory in India does not exist. The supply chain for the factory does not exist. The lead times for stuff like fighter jet parts is 2-3 years. It means after you give order, it takes 3 years to create it and deliver. Setting up supply chain in India will take at least 5 years.

So are u sure LCA mk2 would be production ready !? Even if it would be, would be at it's max. potential!? In 5 years, u have a max. potential MRFA, so what's more favourable keeping China in mind!?

 

[ABHIJIT APSINGIKAR]

Ur indigenous LCA after 23 years of flight is not 65% indigenous while a Screwdriving product Su30mki will soon have almost 80% indigenised....what is more indigenous!?

Ur indigenous LCA is not even 60+ indigenous and then u have MRFA for whom it's a must to be atleast 50% indigenous 👏👏

Naam pe Jaa mat ...kaam pe jaa....
LCA AF mk2 was named MWF first but it was still lighter acc. to our IAF.

The world considers Gripen E as an MRFA, but for IAF it's an LCA...Gripen E ( not to be confused with Gripen C) and Tejas mk2 is of the same class. They are medium weight fighters .

Abe konsa Nasha kar liya!?
F15 ki unit cost 80 million hai , LCA mk1a ki unit cost 63 million hai aur tujhe 400 MWF 70 million me mil jayega!?

Abe nashedi, kya Sungh liya tine

Leave him be. Ignore him, for he is an immature imbecile who has absolutely no idea of industrial manufacturing and assembly line operations and knows only to complain and bemoan when someone points out his foolishness.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

So are u sure LCA mk2 would be production ready !? Even if it would be, would be at it's max. potential!? In 5 years, u have a max. potential MRFA, so what's more favourable keeping China in mind!?

what I am saying is that by the time India rafale factory starts churning out rafale as less than 10 per year, if we invest the same amount of money on setting up LCA mk2 planes, we can get much more numbers per year by same time, after all they are much cheaper. And best of all we dont have to import expensive foreign missiles, radars etc for those 114 rafales. We can buy indigenous versions. MRFA is going to cost over 10 billion dollars. Imagine if that much money is invested in Indian factories, Indian radars and Indian missiles.

Increasing scale of production is just numbers game. You spend more money to set up more factories and larger production line. Whether you do that for rafale or Tejas mk2 or tedbf or amca, is upto you.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

if you assume HAL can manufacture 9 Tejas Mk 2s a year by 2035-36 (again, overly optimistic)

you are assuming that HAL will not ramp up fighter jet production till 2035? I believe that by that time India will be producing over 20 jets a year.

 

[Ashutosh]

what I am saying is that by the time India rafale factory starts churning out rafale as less than 10 per year, if we invest the same amount of money on setting up LCA mk2 planes, we can get much more numbers per year by same time, after all they are much cheaper. And best of all we dont have to import expensive foreign missiles, radars etc for those 114 rafales. We can buy indigenous versions. MRFA is going to cost over 10 billion dollars. Imagine if that much money is invested in Indian factories, Indian radars and Indian missiles.

Increasing scale of production is just numbers game. You spend more money to set up more factories and larger production line. Whether you do that for rafale or Tejas mk2 or tedbf or amca, is upto you.

I think u forgot that MRFA would be atleast 50% indigenous, that means it will also give us the knowledge how especially for the pvt. sector. Again, how are u getting this idea of >10 rollouts/ year!?
Important points following on:
What's more important is these things:

• Don't lose the capability against China and get in more miserable state.
• Get an alternative of HAL
• Increasing Pvt. Sector participation.

Idea of supporting indigenous program at the expense of compromising security, worst idea.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

Bharat should go for 36/54 Rafales through G to G deal and scrap MRFA. With sanction of Tejas Mark-2 and AMCA, MRFA is almost dead for good .

the order for Rafale Marine as a G2G is enough. No need for more rafales after that. We should invest MRFA money in local production of tejas Mk1A, Mk 2, TEDBF, AMCA. Imagine what 10 billion dollar investment will do for Indian aviation and missile ecosystem. If you buy so many expensive rafales, you will have to buy lot of expensive french and british missiles, radar, etc as well because they will not integrate indian systems.

 

[Pad UwU]

Here we go again too many debate and delays😹😹😹

 

[Ashutosh]

Mass manufacturing re tard..

F35 is under 100 million...

F35 unit cost 80 something, and acc. to u 400 for just 70👏👏👏🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Abe barvi fail itna bura koi kaise hag sakta hai!?

 

[ABHIJIT APSINGIKAR]

Mass manufacturing re tard..

F35 is under 100 million...

Yo genius, only F35A is under 100 million, with both B and C models priced well north of 100 million. That is after they have produced well over 1000 units of aircraft and had not even started full-series production. Its full-series production was only approved just a week back in March 2024.

 

[Anant]

you are assuming that HAL will not ramp up fighter jet production till 2035? I believe that by that time India will be producing over 20 jets a year.

I am not too sure about that. Ramping up production is a possibility, but unless you can ramp up the entire supply chain, from airframe manufacturing to avionics subsystem manufacturing to control systems to the engine, etc., you really can't ramp production up. We have already seen just what it takes for an aircraft type to see production in large numbers: Chinese manufacturing vs the F-35 just reaching full-scale production now vs Dassault struggling to get past a dozen or so aircraft a year. Taking into consideration the wide variety of sub-components we are making and the experience of HAL in keeping a production line, I would wager we will be very similar to Dassault in that spectrum.

 

[Anant]

I hate Hal... Everyone knows...

Production can be given to Adani or LT or TATA

60:40 ratio(L1:L2)

By 2028,
80 jets per year production possible (20 HAL+30 L1+ 30 L2)

Even 60 per year is enough

Tata Lt Adani.. All They do is screw driving anyway..

80 aircraft a year? At that point, you are being moronic enough that it doesn't even make sense to attempt to have a discussion with you.

As for the rest of your point, just how many hundred aircraft are you planning to order from each of those three vendors to justify them to set up a line capable of 30 aircraft a year (or 20 for HAL)?

 

[ABHIJIT APSINGIKAR]

F35 unit cost 80 something, and acc. to u 400 for just 70👏👏👏🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Abe barvi fail itna bura koi kaise hag sakta hai!?

Oh no, you may hurt his feelings, It seems our genius is the produce of IIT, and thus is entitled to be worshipped. What is the status of us commoners before the lordship.

 

[Anant]

I have already explained the production timeline in previous reply

Now come to MRFA

Even if India sign MRFA this year (which is not possible)

The delivery of Rafale will start from 2029 at best given large orders of Rafale

Assuming 10 Rafale per year from DRAL(again at best case) it Wil take at least 11 years(2040) to complete order...

Why waste so much money(around 25-30 billion)?? If we order Tejas mk2 instead and start production from 2030 then by 2040 we will have 400 Tejas mk2 if we give private sector production tender to Adani or TATA or LT...

20 mk2 jets per year by hal and rest by private production

Involve two private companies.
60:40 ratio between L1 and L2

80 jets per yaer(20 HAL+30 L1 +30L2)

Very much possible if M0di uses his brain..

Also we will get 400 Tejas mk2 at the price of MRFA.

1. You most certainly did not mention any timelines. Just saying that X number of aircraft is enough is nonsensical without context.

2. As for your "80 aircraft a year" nonsense, refer my reply to your other comment where you have made this same idea in this article. In the off-chance you are unable to find it, just how many hundred aircraft will you be ordering from each of those three vendors?

 

[ABHIJIT APSINGIKAR]

I hate Hal... Everyone knows...

Production can be given to Adani or LT or TATA

60:40 ratio(L1:L2)

By 2028,
80 jets per year production possible (20 HAL+30 L1+ 30 L2)

Even 60 per year is enough

Tata Lt Adani.. All They do is screw driving anyway..

Oh ya, produce 100 aircraft per year when the engine supplier can most optimally supply 20 engines annually. Guess that's a whole new concept of capacity planning and Operations Research being taught in IIT nowadays.

 

[Pad UwU]

Lol ! debate ?? Only the author thinks so. For anyone with common sense, it is cleat that even today AMCA is no more than a fantasy. MRFA is absolutely necessary if India is serious about its security!

Yes up until now AMCA is nowhere near to be found always overhyping it's coming 😹😹😹

 

[Pad UwU]

Bharat should go for 36/54 Rafales through G to G deal and scrap MRFA. With sanction of Tejas Mark-2 and AMCA, MRFA is almost dead for good .

Didn't you read the last article
Getting new batch of rafales would end up us waiting decade or more kakakakak 😹😹😹
yeah rafale is quite good aircraft but dang it's expensive for it's current generation of 4.5 than f15ex and f35

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

I am not too sure about that. Ramping up production is a possibility, but unless you can ramp up the entire supply chain, from airframe manufacturing to avionics subsystem manufacturing to control systems to the engine, etc., you really can't ramp production up. We have already seen just what it takes for an aircraft type to see production in large numbers: Chinese manufacturing vs the F-35 just reaching full-scale production now vs Dassault struggling to get past a dozen or so aircraft a year. Taking into consideration the wide variety of sub-components we are making and the experience of HAL in keeping a production line, I would wager we will be very similar to Dassault in that spectrum.

in order to ramp up supply chain you need orders. And orders wont be placed unless their is this MRFA monkey on IAF's back. MRFA is delayed for so long due to high price, and because it remains a possibility, IAF has not committed to higher orders for tejas Mk2, TEDBF etc, and their development is delayed.

You talked about dassault struggling to manufacture 15 rafales a year in france, now imagine how bad the situation will be when they have to build a supply chain from scratch for local maufacture in India. HAL is best option. Just give orders, HAL will in turn give orders to its suppliers then. Unless MRFA is not scrapped and buried, it will not happen. The order for rafale marine for navy is enough for dassault to set up production in india, since they need a 2nd production line anyways, if not then we will get those rafales 15 years later. After this rafale marine order, I believe India will will be almost 2nd largest operator, and the only one other than france that can hope to build it.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

I think u forgot that MRFA would be atleast 50% indigenous, that means it will also give us the knowledge how especially for the pvt. sector. Again, how are u getting this idea of >10 rollouts/ year!?
Important points following on:
What's more important is these things:

• Don't lose the capability against China and get in more miserable state.
• Get an alternative of HAL
• Increasing Pvt. Sector participation.

Idea of supporting indigenous program at the expense of compromising security, worst idea.

MRFA will be as indigenous as the Su-30 is indigenous. We have to pay obscene license fees and still have to import tons from russia for that. The reason why I am getting this idea of >10 rollouts is because, We currently have the capacity to build more than 10 per year, if you combine tejas mk1, and Su-30, since they both are locally built. And after 10 billion dollar invest ment, in 5 years time we can double it definitely.

 

[Pad UwU]

USA does not have options as their stealth fighters planes have failed.

Even the f35 has thousand bugs it use serves it's purpose of surprising it's enemies... Especially because of it's passive and active stealth feature added with its electronic warfare system.... Most it's obvious problem is it's limited weapon it can carry it it's belly...

Fact is our CGI AMCA can't surpass it even in trailer video

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

So are u sure LCA mk2 would be production ready !? Even if it would be, would be at it's max. potential!? In 5 years, u have a max. potential MRFA, so what's more favourable keeping China in mind!?

it would take us at least 17-18 years from today to get all 114 MRFA aircraft. And we wont get first 1 till at least 5-6 years from now. It wont help vs china any more than indigenous fighters.

 

[Pad UwU]

USA is the only country possessing 5 th gen planes. The only thing they are bad is operational cost...but still they stand at top.

The other nations like China and Russia is already in league of 5gen aircraft technology.... Only difference is Russias su57 is built as a pseudo 5gen that still needs some refinement like serrated/flat engine nozzle, more advance RAM coating, sensor fusion and super computer, upgraded engine with super cruise at mach 2, s shape air duct inlet and a more advance AESA radar than their weird so called AESA radar using