Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) News and Discussion

[Tanishq Bafila]

Great, but now DRDO and HAL need to deliver the 1st prototype by 2027-2028 and produce in numbers by 2030-2032, and then operationalize Mk-2 (with 2 more side internal weapons bays + rear stealth + stealth external fuel tanks) by 2035 - can they???

Realistically, earliest we can start the production by 2032 , not before that...

For a new jet where most of the technology is Indigenous & being developed for that project only , you need to test the system for 4-6 years to get the certification...

Tejas Mk-2 production earliest by 2030 and AMCA Mk-1 production earliest by 2032 , & most probably TEDBF will go beyond further

 

[Tanishq Bafila]

Easy 15-20 years if everything else happens.

10 years Minimum I would say, 15 is too much I would say considering how rapidly the ecosystem is being created

 

[Pink Panther]

10 years Minimum I would say, 15 is too much I would say considering how rapidly the ecosystem is being created

If GE-404 engine for Tejas MK1A and GE F414 engine for Tejas MK2 get delayed all the delays will trickle down, as of now there is no clarity as to when we get these engines and if we even.

 

[PKS]

What is wrong with taking help from friends in developing the K 21 and the KAAN, which can help expedite the induction of these fighters?

 

[NSR]

It is a great idea to design and develop and manufacture our own 5th Generation fighter.
However, sadly speaking we do not have the entire ecosystem in the fighter programs to be successful yet.
Remember, we are still dependent on USA for engine, UK for ejection seat and IFR probe, and even Russia and Ukraine for some only God knows what components.

And then many countries are already moving to 5th Generation fighter.

So my best assessment is that India must join UK, Italy and Japan consortium as full=fledged member and bear full 1/4th cost of development and manufacturing of the 6th Generation fighter.
It will be ready by 2035 and India can surely contribute its supremacy in software and cost-effective manufacturing to the whole team.

Sometimes, we have grit our teeth and bite the lips and bear the pain but make very hard decisions for Indian future.

 

[Pad UwU]

Fun fact:
Korea's kf21 mk1 is price $65m and SK government order a minimum of 40+ jets.
They already testing and further developing it's mk2, while it's mk3 is one drawing board.

Turks Kaan on the other hand is price at a minimum of $110m per jet. And it's bigger than f22, j20 and su57. Mk2 is now development stage, while it's mk1 is need further finishing....

Currently India's AMCA is still on drawing board and no prototype

Sad reality 🙃

 

[De_SECULARISED]

Please sort out Engine fiasco first.

 

[charminar_waale_ismail_bhai]

The article is a joke, written by a fanboi.
I have been hearing of this project since 2004 when it was named as MCA and was a tailless design.
Later on ADA came to the realisation fhat a tailless design was outside of the technological capabilities of the Indian aeronautical industry. Later on the design was revised to incorporate a tail based design and the name of the project was rechristened to AMCA.

So, it would be technically incorrect for the article to claim that AMCA project started later than the Turkish and the Korean projects.

Once can claim that the actual project was only kick started recently after CCS's approval of the project but it would be dishonest of most of us who have been following military news closely to fall for the claim that AMCA is a later project than the KAAN and KF-21.

 

[Pad UwU]

It is a great idea to design and develop and manufacture our own 5th Generation fighter.
However, sadly speaking we do not have the entire ecosystem in the fighter programs to be successful yet.
Remember, we are still dependent on USA for engine, UK for ejection seat and IFR probe, and even Russia and Ukraine for some only God knows what components.

And then many countries are already moving to 5th Generation fighter.

So my best assessment is that India must join UK, Italy and Japan consortium as full=fledged member and bear full 1/4th cost of development and manufacturing of the 6th Generation fighter.
It will be ready by 2035 and India can surely contribute its supremacy in software and cost-effective manufacturing to the whole team.

Sometimes, we have grit our teeth and bite the lips and bear the pain but make very hard decisions for Indian future.

Same as I commented on other previous article... But sadly many Indian bureaucrats are honey trap by macron😹😹😹

 

[Divyansh Bhutra]

• This would be self-defeating because it would neither be cost-competitive nor export-oriented and the space would be grabbed upon by USA, RoK & Turkiye in 5th gen class leaving India for Africans & Latin Americans.
• Every succeeding generation will be more pricier than preceding. And if French, Germans, British & Americans have learnt lessons in offsetting cost through developmental workshare arrangements, Indians should --- by not doing we would be none wiser. They are the inventors, pioneers & top-notches of aviation ecosystem. Following Chinese & Russian autarchic Aatmanirbhar route will come at a cost.
• KF-21relies no more "heavily" than AMCA would on French, USA, German, Malaysia, Netherlands. 18 exact technologies were not granted by USA. LM, RTX, L3H, MooG, etc.. filled the gap through consultation & collaboration. South Koreans have time, money & export advantage over us.
• Minimize the risk of espionage.....Huhh❗How many defence personnel & DRDO have been honey trapped 🍯? India imports all military grade servers, workstation, HPC, microprocessors, DSP, CPU, GPU, machine tools, CNC from GVCs. That's how things are "vulnerable".

Developing critical technology ourselves would have a serious cost advantage over the long run. It's simply common sense, that a monopolised product is more expensive. And according to Lockheed Martin themselves, one of the primary focus of the 6th generation fighters is to reduce costs, and simplify manufacturing. So I don't know which genius source you've read to say that future generations will be more expensive. And KA21 got more than 70% of it's tech from USA, according to, again, official Lockheed Martin documents. Meanwhile even Tejas MK1A has 75.5 % indigenous components, which doesn't include all the software. DRDO is aiming for 90% plus indigenous components for AMCA. I feel you should reevaluate your source's legitimacy.

 

[Divyansh Bhutra]

India is the 4th country to seriously design and try to produce 5th gen fighter jet.

USA way ahead.

RUSSIA and CHINA catching up.

INDIA way behind.

Most of the European countries are going for 6th gen unmanned

The countries you spoke of have had proper investments into this sector for more than a century. You think it won't take time for India to do something so ambitious. To be very honest, I'm more surprised at how well they're doing despite the lack of experience.

 

[Divyansh Bhutra]

This is the crucial difference that people don't understand when they say South Korea and Turkey are overtaking India when they aren't as they are just buying parts, components, equipment and technology from the USA and NATO allies.

India is developing everything by itself which is essential if we want to learn the science and technology involved to develop this jet because nobody else will give it to us. This jet will become the backbone of the IAF which we need to increase our fire power and squadron strength.

They're not buying. They're straight up getting every crucial thing by collaborating. According to Lockheed Martin, KA21 has US developed flight control systems, flight computers, software, communication systems, engines, along with major assistance in the design itself. India's approach is commendable, to say the least.

 

[Divyansh Bhutra]

What is wrong with taking help from friends in developing the K 21 and the KAAN, which can help expedite the induction of these fighters?

That it'll make us dependent on a country which has a record of destroying it's own allies when they tried overtaking them. China and Japan are two very good examples.

 

[Divyansh Bhutra]

It is a great idea to design and develop and manufacture our own 5th Generation fighter.
However, sadly speaking we do not have the entire ecosystem in the fighter programs to be successful yet.
Remember, we are still dependent on USA for engine, UK for ejection seat and IFR probe, and even Russia and Ukraine for some only God knows what components.

And then many countries are already moving to 5th Generation fighter.

So my best assessment is that India must join UK, Italy and Japan consortium as full=fledged member and bear full 1/4th cost of development and manufacturing of the 6th Generation fighter.
It will be ready by 2035 and India can surely contribute its supremacy in software and cost-effective manufacturing to the whole team.

Sometimes, we have grit our teeth and bite the lips and bear the pain but make very hard decisions for Indian future.

Your method would ensure a fast induction of 6th Gen jets. No doubt. But what India is currently doing would ensure we're not dependent on any country that can cripple our airforce with sanctions if we don't agree with them for our interests.

 

[NSR]

Your method would ensure a fast induction of 6th Gen jets. No doubt. But what India is currently doing would ensure we're not dependent on any country that can cripple our airforce with sanctions if we don't agree with them for our interests.

We are surely on our way to independence but takes time.

 

[ABHIJIT APSINGIKAR]

This article is little more than a propaganda piece, that is trying to justify inordinate delays. What the article writer and its real backers don't realize is that incremental and interactive program management is the most realistic and pragmatic approach to platform development. Sure induct indigenous platforms but do it incrementally. Focus should always be on inducting as fast as possible rather than doing everything at once. Sneer all u like about TAI and KAI having imported components in their fighters. But they will induct them far faster and will probably have multiple operational squadrons before we will even see AMCA.

Technology is not static and is a dynamic concept and will keep evolving. hence by the time our DRDO with their convoluted concept of indigenous development come up with even a prototype, KF--21 and KAAN will have entered operational service and AMCA will become uncompetitive due to having aged avionics which suffered from huge delayed development and thus is unable to match the technology then available.

 

[ABHIJIT APSINGIKAR]

They're not buying. They're straight up getting every crucial thing by collaborating. According to Lockheed Martin, KA21 has US developed flight control systems, flight computers, software, communication systems, engines, along with major assistance in the design itself. India's approach is commendable, to say the least.

Who asked DRDO not to collaborate? In fact DRDO advised the government against participating in any multi-national collaborative effort. Yet what we see is AMCA will still have a whole bunch of imported sub-systems, that were acquired under the table just to maintain the facade of indigenous development.

 

[Sandeep]

They're not buying. They're straight up getting every crucial thing by collaborating. According to Lockheed Martin, KA21 has US developed flight control systems, flight computers, software, communication systems, engines, along with major assistance in the design itself. India's approach is commendable, to say the least.

Collaborating is just another word of learning how to make the product but only after you buy a large quantity that I produce from my factory in the USA. Even then they won’t get 100% of the technology transferred so it’s straight up buying because by the time they finish buying those USA supplied parts or technology then it would of had to be a large quantity and then the world USA slowly drip feed the technology on how to make the product. But still you won’t get 100%. Also before that you would have strict controls and regulation on the contract between the USA and South Korea. Also for the next 40+ years South Korea would be stuck with relying on the USA for the expensive parts, supplies, sensors, components and any technology that the USA gave and South Korea would have no choice to pay if they wanted to keep their jets flying to protect them from North Korea.

 

[PRO]

AMCA to Rival Global Stealth Fighters, Will Incorporate All 5th-Gen Capabilities With 6th-Gen Tuning​

India's pursuit of indigenous airpower capabilities has received a major boost with the approval of the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) program.

This ambitious project envisions a state-of-the-art fifth-generation stealth fighter jet designed to bolster India's defense capabilities.

With a substantial initial investment exceeding Rs 15,000 crore, the AMCA promises to be a technological marvel within the Indian Air Force's arsenal.

Cutting-Edge Capabilities​

The AMCA is designed to excel in modern combat environments. Key features include:

• Stealth technology: Advanced design and materials will minimize the AMCA's radar signature, allowing it to operate with greater survivability in heavily defended airspace.
• Advanced avionics: A suite of high-tech onboard systems will provide pilots with exceptional situational awareness, enhancing decision-making, and overall mission effectiveness.
• Next-generation weaponry: The AMCA will have the capability to carry a diverse range of air-to-air and air-to-ground weapons, ensuring tactical flexibility in various combat scenarios.

Rapid Development & Ambitious Goals​

The AMCA project aims for a swift development timeline. The goal is to unveil the first prototype within four years, followed by the maiden flight a year later. This underscores India's commitment to the rapid development and deployment of this crucial defense asset.

Developers confidently assert that the AMCA will rival, if not exceed, the capabilities of other fifth-generation fighter aircraft currently in development around the world, particularly within Asia. This signals India's rising stature in the complex field of advanced aerospace engineering.

Bridging the Generational Gap​

Perhaps most significantly, the AMCA program has the potential to bridge the technological gap between current and future fighter jet generations.

The Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), spearheading the project, aims to incorporate elements of sixth-generation fighter technologies into the AMCA's design. These could include:

• Advanced Sensors: For enhanced detection and tracking capabilities
• Artificial intelligence (AI): To assist pilots in decision-making and threat analysis.
• Directed Energy Weapons: Potentially including laser weapon pods for defense against projectiles, drones, and other threats.

Dr. Girish S. Deodhare, a former ADA director, has labeled the AMCA a "5.5 generation" fighter. This designation reflects the aircraft's blend of advanced fifth-generation features with cutting-edge sixth-generation concepts, creating a formidable and adaptable force for Indian air defense.

India's Aerospace Ambitions​

The AMCA program highlights India's determination to become a major player in the global aerospace industry.

Its cutting-edge design, rapid development timeline, and inclusion of futuristic technologies position the AMCA as a potential game-changer for Indian airpower, bolstering self-reliance and projecting technological prowess.

 

[charminar_waale_ismail_bhai]

Khayali Pulav can incorporate the best of the 7th and 8th gen airplanes too.

Contrast this with how Chinese J-20 came into being.

Barely any speculative article were present in the media and the world would come to know of the existance of J-20 through an osint photograph of a prototype in testing.

 

[Swanand Kulkarni]

So it is going to be rolled out by 2050

 

[aditya jhaveri]

Very low quality article. Just full of speculations and hyperbole. We are still a decade behind other countries, even China has already fielded 200 of its J20s and we still can't rollout our first prototype on time.

 

[INDIAN]

Just make it fast , we will do that this, already India is behind years from developing Fifth generation aircrafts.
Don't take another 15-20 years to productionize these fighter aircrafts.

 

[shivkumar sinha]

Khayali Pulav can incorporate the best of the 7th and 8th gen airplanes too.

Contrast this with how Chinese J-20 came into being.

Barely any speculative article were present in the media and the world would come to know of the existance of J-20 through an osint photograph of a prototype in testing.

How can you be so confident about real capabilities of J-20 when it is still heavily underpowered by using WS-10C engines ? Reports about all chinese hardwares deployed in active warzones say otherwise. Have confidence on AMCA.

 

[Steel Mathi]

We definitely appreciate your effort....but can the current engine at AMCA or the engine we are going to make now provide the power for laser attack...? however the result, heartiest congratulations to Indian scientists for their efforts...

 

[charminar_waale_ismail_bhai]

How can you be so confident about real capabilities of J-20

By virtue of numbers built.

I would have better chances of winning a war with 200 underpowered low-quality J-20s than with zero number of theoretically 5th and 6th gen AMCA.

Have confidence on AMCA.

I will have phull confidence the very day first prototype of AMCA rolls out.
Till then, I would continue to hold AMCA in the same league of aircrafts as IAIO Qaher-313(Must say Qaher-313 has very futuristic design).

 

[PARTHAJIT JANA]

Before chest thumping indian designers should also do one thing, shut their mouth untill it comes out.

 

[sanket]

Only i was in the Forum to say AMCA MK1 is 5.5TH Gen & AMCA MK2 is 6th Gen Features

 

[Hari Sud]

Keep your fingers crossed and say no more HAL. Say only when you get somewhere.

 

[shivkumar sinha]

By virtue of numbers built.

I would have better chances of winning a war with 200 underpowered low-quality J-20s than with zero number of theoretically 5th and 6th gen AMCA.

I will have phull confidence the very day first prototype of AMCA rolls out.
Till then, I would continue to hold AMCA in the same league of aircrafts as IAIO Qaher-313(Must say Qaher-313 has very futuristic design).

Bharat doesn't have other options except to rely on indigenous development of AMCA including their power plants . For now, mass produced Tejas variants will do the job .Our skilled pilots flying 0.3 sq metre RCS Tejas armed with Astra variants can well shoot down any PLAAF fighters including J-20 in potential aerial engagement over Tibetan sky .