Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) News and Discussion

[Harsh]

Ignore the Anglo-Saxon narrative and DoD should go to NPO Saturn for Article 41 (They have already done article 31) jet engine for AMCA- Russia is dying for a partner and India will get a reliable/predictable partner. For an out-of-the-Box thinking, you may also invite UAE as development partner for Financing.

 

[desigandu]

Good, but we need this engine to start flying/testing by 2030 - is that possible? Then we need it mass produced by 2035 for AMCA Mk-2, and TEDBF...
Question - assuming we develop this 130KN, mass produced by 2035, what will it take for us then to develop variable cycle engines say in the 200+KN, thrust range (this is what is likely to power NGADs, which are already being tested now and will be deployed before 2030)...
Just asking as it is important to know where does cutting edge stands and how far back we are, and whether we ever plan to not only catch up but move ahead - of course this is a long term game, and we need to play it.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

Sir- Please try explaining these excuses to China and Pakistan when they invade us with 5th of 6th Gen aircraft !!

We may lack in 5th gen fighter technology, but we have other weapons we can use to deter their aggression. We bought S400 systems specifially for Chinese 5th gen fighters and we have plenty of ballistic and cruise missiles for payback.

 

[Deepak Hegde]

We may lack in 5th gen fighter technology, but we have other weapons we can use to deter their aggression. We bought S400 systems specifially for Chinese 5th gen fighters and we have plenty of ballistic and cruise missiles for payback.

If these other alternatives are so good, why waste money, stop work on others which are not important and cannot be delivered on time!

 

[Yuvraj Gavali]

Get start-up as partner, u will find easy solutions

 

[bonito]

Wow ! So optimistic ! We have planned mid life upgrades for Tejas Mk II already.

By the way Tejas Mk1A will be delayed as HAL is producing trainers for now. At the rate of 3 jets per yr, HAL has already delivered 32 jets as on July 2023 and since Aug 2023 another 6 jets are being produced (2 trainers has always been used for enhancement and testing various features since Oct 2022 ). All the 40 jets (incl trainers) will be delivered by Mar 2025 to IAF. Then starts Mk 1A production and will see first delivery by Sep 2025.

 

[bonito]

With the advent of highest degrees of radars and long range intercepting missiles also equally cheapest drones, the days of manned fighter jets are gone and it is very very riskier for our.pilots to be put on board a jet for offence purposes on a foreign soil. We seriously need to drop the obession for more and more jets.

1. And we need to concentrate on drones, UAV's and another unmaned avionics.
2. Highly networked war fare system for strong defence
3. Produce huge number of missiles in varying ranges
4. Many more AWACS and it's likes

 

[Rajsn]

India should go for GE. The french are not good when it comes to value for money. And India needs to strenghten partnership with america to counter China. Macron recently visited China and repeated Chinese talking points. Also, GE is developing adaptive cycle engines for NGAD, I know it is a long shot, but chances will be greater that India gets few scraps from that technology, in 15 years or so if India chooses america and GE.
Also 414 deal has very high level of ToT, which shows how keen americans are to deepen partnership with India.

USA will only give old tech and never the core Engine tech

 

[Rajsn]

Good, but we need this engine to start flying/testing by 2030 - is that possible? Then we need it mass produced by 2035 for AMCA Mk-2, and TEDBF...
Question - assuming we develop this 130KN, mass produced by 2035, what will it take for us then to develop variable cycle engines say in the 200+KN, thrust range (this is what is likely to power NGADs, which are already being tested now and will be deployed before 2030)...
Just asking as it is important to know where does cutting edge stands and how far back we are, and whether we ever plan to not only catch up but move ahead - of course this is a long term game, and we need to play it.

They have not even found a partner. Then India will negotiate for years ....
So No chance

 

[BnglrTester]

Sad to see foreign collaboration for future plan.
No confidence to build up our own.
why GTRE is not collaborating with young brains of IITians/IIScians or Adani/Ambani/Tata private firms.

After all, why foreign collabortion!!!

Fresh out of college grads gonna make one of the most complex piece of technology ever known to mankind? This is an intersection of various disciplines coming together. A fine tuned jet engine is an engineering Marvel which requires tonnes of domain experience even for the finest engineers. Stop idolising iits like those coaching institutewallahs.

 

[Avada kedavra]

Whatever plan has been mentioned in this article will only be realized after probably in late 2040s. I can guarantee that.

 

[Avada kedavra]

India should go for GE. The french are not good when it comes to value for money. And India needs to strenghten partnership with america to counter China. Macron recently visited China and repeated Chinese talking points. Also, GE is developing adaptive cycle engines for NGAD, I know it is a long shot, but chances will be greater that India gets few scraps from that technology, in 15 years or so if India chooses america and GE.
Also 414 deal has very high level of ToT, which shows how keen americans are to deepen partnership with India.

Idiotic.
French don't have value for money coz they aren't mass producing on the level of the US.
First It needs to be seen if the ToT agreement for the 414 engines is honored in the first place.
Otherwise there are multiple instances in the past.

 

[amerjit johal]

Could this be one made for Tempest through Japan.

RR are developing Tempest engine in UK

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

USA will only give old tech and never the core Engine tech

any tech we dont already have is nice. I was reading on some of the tech that is being offered, and it was cutting edge tech. The rest India can develop on its own after spending time and money.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

If these other alternatives are so good, why waste money, stop work on others which are not important and cannot be delivered on time!

strategic planners dont think like you. Everything is about cost and benefit. How much of the limited money to spend, on which stuff to spend on and when to spend it.

 

[Aayush Pratap]

Once again, throwing these fancy terms around like nobody's business when the actual product is nowhere on the horizon..lol

 

[Tanishq Bafila]

Good, but we need this engine to start flying/testing by 2030 - is that possible? Then we need it mass produced by 2035 for AMCA Mk-2, and TEDBF...
Question - assuming we develop this 130KN, mass produced by 2035, what will it take for us then to develop variable cycle engines say in the 200+KN, thrust range (this is what is likely to power NGADs, which are already being tested now and will be deployed before 2030)...
Just asking as it is important to know where does cutting edge stands and how far back we are, and whether we ever plan to not only catch up but move ahead - of course this is a long term game, and we need to play it.

130KN is of future variant, based Variant will be of 110 Kn , Engine would be certified by 2032-34 earliest... Only AMCA mk-2 serial production aircrafts will get these engines earliest

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

For at least last 14 years, search is on for a partner to develop own engine. Yet unable to fix even that much.

At this stage, since we continue to ride on a wave of sarkaari incompetence, please consider Shenyang FC-31 too. Cheap, imported and looks 5th gen too.

Come on, we are prioritizing Plan-B over Plan-A. Any sane country should be pushing our indigenous GTRE Kaveri lock, stock and smoking barrel while considering a foreign partner as Plan-B if everything fails. Yahan ham 15 saal sei partner hi khoj rahe without improving things at GTRE.

problem is that we are incapable of developing an engine for a 5th gen fighter. It would cost too much money. Look at how much china spent and how long it took. They had to spy on america and steal its tech and there is still doubts on china's new engine for J20. India simply does not have that much money, it needs a foreign partner who will help us. We had tried making an engine cost effectively (kaveri) but we failed badly.

 

[Sandeep]

They have not even found a partner. Then India will negotiate for years ....
So No chance

India has already made a deal with France and Safran to develop a brand new 5th generation jet engine to power the AMCA MK2. With this engine it will teach India on how to design and develop a advanced engine which gives us 100% of the technology, allow to make 100% of it in India and can freely sell to whoever without needing permission.

At the start India will use the GE F414 engine for the first 1-2 squadrons which will give enough time to develop the new engine with France easily.

 

[Sandeep]

Countries like Turkey and South Korea are were late to the game but now appear to have powered ahead of India in the quest to produce a 5th generation fighter. In the meantime India (GTRE) is looking to foreign countries to help develop fighter engines. Those scientists in charge of running GTRE need to accelerate.

What nonsense! Turkey and South Korea have only developed their jet faster than us is because they use a lot of the technology and parts from the USA and NATO allies. India are developing everything by ourselves without making off the shelf purchases which takes a bit longer but it's better. We can't learn how to design and develop new technology by just making expensive imports as we have to go through the learning cycle.

 

[Sandeep]

problem is that we are incapable of developing an engine for a 5th gen fighter. It would cost too much money. Look at how much china spent and how long it took. They had to spy on america and steal its tech and there is still doubts on china's new engine for J20. India simply does not have that much money, it needs a foreign partner who will help us. We had tried making an engine cost effectively (kaveri) but we failed badly.

We didn't fail with the Kaveri engine as we successfully developed it with 50kn of dry thrust which will be used on the stealth UCAV Ghatak. We are also developing the Kaveri marine engine which is going through its testing phase which is showing good progress and will power small to medium ships.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

We didn't fail with the Kaveri engine as we successfully developed it with 50kn of dry thrust which will be used on the stealth UCAV Ghatak. We are also developing the Kaveri marine engine which is going through its testing phase which is showing good progress and will power small to medium ships.

kaveri engine was intended to be used in tejas, but it delivered too little thrust for that purpose. That is a failure. Dry kaveri for ghatak is an effort to salvage so that the effort does not go to waste.

 

[Harsh]

India has already made a deal with France and Safran to develop a brand new 5th generation jet engine to power the AMCA MK2. With this engine it will teach India on how to design and develop a advanced engine which gives us 100% of the technology, allow to make 100% of it in India and can freely sell to whoever without needing permission.

At the start India will use the GE F414 engine for the first 1-2 squadrons which will give enough time to develop the new engine with France easily.

Only India thinks it has a deal with Safran/France. Ask Safran and you might get a surprise answer.

 

[Harsh]

What nonsense! Turkey and South Korea have only developed their jet faster than us is because they use a lot of the technology and parts from the USA and NATO allies. India are developing everything by ourselves without making off the shelf purchases which takes a bit longer but it's better. We can't learn how to design and develop new technology by just making expensive imports as we have to go through the learning cycle.

The glory is not in how you made the engine/jet, glory is in making a militarily viable engine/jet. Beg, borrow, steal or clone.

 

[Pad UwU]

Could this be one made for Tempest through Japan.

Nope AFAIK GCAP Tempest engine participants are IHI Japan, Rolls Royce UK and Avio Aero Italy.... Japan and Italy's company are not in contact with DRDO GTRE procurement of JV partner... So we will not having a tech from Tempest.... Rolls Royce might offer a clean sheet design engine with open architecture for improvement of Kaveri or go all the way with the clean sheet design that is for India tailor made