Why MoD Rejected Uttam AESA Radar for Rafale M Jets Despite Having Integration Plans for MiG-29K and TEDBF

[Sandeep]

should have gone for Uttam AESA Radar , same mistake done like Mirage-2000 opportunity is there with Indigenous option, Apart From Astra Family IN can Integrate Brahmos-NG , Rudram Family in Future oh & India already paid ISE charges why France cant add one more to it why Dassault want heavy price for Just One Upgrade Just to Milk more money ..........??? In Mid-Life upgrade Bharat Must go for Indigenous GaN AESA Radar .

There’s a number of reason why they didn’t integrate it.

1. Dassault would be charging more money to integrate our radar which is a standard business practice everywhere even though it’s unfair.
2. It will take a longer time to test and certify it.
3. Have to make significant software changes to jets computer which takes a longer time .
4. We already have 36+26= 62 jets once we receive the naval jets so there will be a lot of commonality in parts, technology, spares, maintenance and services. So this makes it more affordable over a long period of time.
5. We need these jets quickly because we have an empty carrier and integrating our radar will delay that by a number of years.

Also when it’s time for its mid-life upgrade then we can integrate our own radar for the air force and naval jets at the same time. We will also have our own indigenous weapons integrated with the jet so we won’t be stuck with just using foreign expensive weapons.

For the Mig 29K we need to keep the jet flying for at least another 20 years and by then production for the TEDBF would have started so we should carry out a mid-life upgrade on the Mig 29 and install the Uttam radar. There will be a large requirement of Uttam radars so production will easily for a number of years for Tejas MK2, TEDBF, AMCA, Sukhoi 30 so we can add the Mig 29 and Mig 29K as well.

 

[beencensured]

The Rafale has the newest and probable best radar in our fighter fleet, considering not a single Uttam has been delivered in production yet. This was a strange idea to start with and it makes sense that it was rejected. Get the Tejas with Uttam out first,, get Virupaksha upgrades going for the Su-30, and after a lot of the legacy fleet is retired and remainder is upgraded, the Rafale can have a nice GaN (+ any future advancements) upgrade as its midlife extension. That's a better idea. It's also by far more battle tested as of right now and just...A very strange idea to replace it right away.

Besides, just comparing the TRM count is a bit useless here, since the Rafale is just limited by its nosecone size. But TRM count is far from everything, it's like comparing processors by frequency, the cooling, power delivery, antenna placement, and especially compute play a huge role.

Uttam radar GaAs was integrated and tested on Tejas LSP. "The radar completed 230 hours of airborne testing on the Tejas LSP2 and LSP3 aircraft."

 

[madhukar nikam]

There should be no debate on the topic, the changes should be done during refit, or during planned maintenance, they must do it on 1 aircraft and see the changes in software and fire control system etc before changing on the rest.

Navy badly needs in fly away condition of Aircraft, they have Aircraft carriers without aircraft...

 

[kurtwallis wallis]

First of all Uttam AESA is still 5 years away from complete certifications! No need of any delays or costs hikes with Uttam radars; just go with Thales ones! anyways, Dassault's final offer deal is almost 6 billion euros [as per today's ToI news], which comes to 253 to 255 millions usd per Rafale-M jet total ops costs - which means NO any discounts offered at all! Uttam radar integrations will jack prices up further next.... no need for this now!

 

[PKPRS]

Factual consistency. 111th Production model was shown to have the same number of ~840 elements by Thales with some internal enhancements.

Some one here said Rafale M is F4.2 and it comes with GaN AESA Radar 😂, we are paying $260Mln for a base F3R, , we need to pay more for Navy specific enhancements .

 

[PKPRS]

Now, Dassault is claiming that IAF will very well soon have 200 nos. Rafales with the building of Dassault MRO facility in UP.... Seems IAF will buy only Rafale jets until MK2 and AMCA gets FOC's.. But, which engines will these jets use next....??

But GOI only has $18-$20Bln budget to buy all 114 jets with a generous 100% TOT and also wanted the OEM to work with an Indian entity and create a complete eco System.

 

[PKPRS]

Integrate Uttam now. You will save lot of cost in integration and use of desi weapons.

and twin GE F114 engines.

 

[kurtwallis wallis]

and twin GE F114 engines.

HAHA... USA GE engines inside French dame jet...?

 

[PKPRS]

"GaN doubles the range but requires significant power generation and cooling capabilities"

Ugh who wrote this line. The whole point of GaN is more efficient transfer of power that let you do an equal job with significantly less power, or else raise output power without raising thermal waste. It also definitely doesn't just simply double range.

Actually GaN's high power density, or its ability to dissipate heat from a small package compared to GaS.

 

[PKPRS]

HAHA... USA GE engines inside French dame jet...?

Rafale prototype originally flew with GE engine before M88 was made, so it should be a easy fit.

 

[Kunung]

My question is: they recently announced that Rafale M price is significantly lower before the visit of A. Doval to France. What is the price tag per aircraft then?

 

[Anant]

Rafale prototype originally flew with GE engine before M88 was made, so it should be a easy fit.

It would be doable, but you'd require an entire flight testing regime again, which means atleast half a decade of waiting time.

 

[Anant]

Instead of 26 Rafale India should have gone for 72 NLCA and later replaced by TEDBF from 2035 onwards.

You do realise that the Navy had a set of very valid reasons as to why the NLCA was rejected, right? Oh, and at the pace HAL is building Tejas Mk 1/1As, if you gave them another 72 aircraft, they'd probably deliver them around 2035. Finally, if the Navy had gone for the NLCA program, TEDBF would not have been sanctioned.

 

[Anant]

Navy should go with similar configuration and upgrades as IAF for now. Once TEDBF is ready the Navy can transfer/sell the Rafales to IAF and standardize on the TEDBF. The Mig-29k also can be transfered to IAF depending on useful life remaining.

Transferring jets isn't as easy as it sounds. There are a lot of structural modifications that will be an active hindrance to land-based operations.

That said, I do agree that the Navy can potentially transfer the Rafale Ms to the IAF once the TEDBF is available in sufficiently large numbers. Heck, get the IAF to pay for those, and that money will cover an equivalent number of TEDBFs and a few OPVs.