Opinion Should India Drop F414 Engine Choice for Tejas Mk2 and Choose Rolls-Royce EJ200 or Safran M88?

Should India Drop F414 Engine Choice for Tejas Mk2 and Choose Rolls-Royce EJ200 or Safran M88?


India's Tejas Mk2 programme, a crucial step in modernising the nation's air power, is fundamentally linked to its choice of the American General Electric (GE) F414 engine.

While discussions occasionally arise about alternative powerplants like the Eurojet EJ200 or the French Safran M88, experts indicate that switching engines at this stage would be a complex, costly, and time-consuming process that could severely delay the fighter jet's deployment.

The Tejas Mk2 is being developed as a 4.5-generation multirole combat aircraft, designed to replace the Indian Air Force's (IAF) ageing fleets of Jaguar, Mirage-2000, and MiG-29 aircraft.

As a significant upgrade over the Tejas Mk1A, the Mk2 variant is designed for superior performance, featuring advanced avionics, an indigenous Uttam AESA radar, and a greater weapons payload.

At the heart of this enhanced capability is the GE F414-INS6 engine, which provides 98 kilonewtons (kN) of thrust, a substantial increase from the 84 kN of the F404 engine used in the Tejas Mk1A. This extra power is essential for the aircraft to achieve better agility, speed, and combat effectiveness.

The airframe of the Tejas Mk2 has been meticulously engineered around the specific dimensions, weight, and performance characteristics of the F414 engine.

Key components, including the air intakes, fuselage structure, engine mounts, and internal cooling systems, are all optimised for this particular engine.

This deep integration ensures the aircraft's aerodynamic stability, structural strength, and overall reliability.

Consequently, the Tejas Mk2's design is highly dependent on the F414, making any change a formidable engineering challenge.

Introducing a different engine, such as the Eurojet EJ200 (which powers the Eurofighter Typhoon) or the Safran M88 (from the Dassault Rafale), would require a complete redesign of the aircraft.

Despite the EJ200 offering a comparable thrust of 90 kN, its physical size, weight, and airflow requirements are different from the F414.

Adapting the Tejas Mk2 would involve re-engineering its core structure, from the air intakes to the tail section, and recalibrating its centre of gravity.

This process would effectively create a new aircraft variant, which would need to undergo a full cycle of development, testing, and certification, potentially delaying the programme by several years from its planned 2031 induction.

The decision to proceed with the GE F414 is reinforced by significant strategic and industrial factors.

In a landmark agreement finalised in June 2023 during Prime Minister Narendra Modi's state visit to the US, GE and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) signed a pact to jointly manufacture the F414 engines in India.

This deal includes an unprecedented 80% transfer of technology (ToT), a major boost for India’s goal of self-reliance in defence manufacturing under the 'Make in India' initiative. This agreement ensures a secure supply chain and builds critical aerospace expertise within the country.

Opting for a European engine would nullify this progress and present major logistical hurdles. A new deal would have to be negotiated with a different consortium, and it is uncertain if it would include a similar level of technology transfer.

Furthermore, the IAF's maintenance crews are already familiar with GE engines through the F404 used in the Tejas Mk1A fleet. Introducing a completely different engine family would require new supply chains, separate maintenance infrastructure, and extensive retraining of ground personnel, adding complexity and operational costs.

The Tejas Mk2 programme is operating on a strict timeline, with the first flight anticipated by 2027 and production scheduled to commence by 2031.

HAL plans to manufacture over 200 of these jets for the IAF. Any delay caused by an engine redesign would push the delivery of these much-needed aircraft beyond 2035.

This could worsen the IAF's current shortfall of fighter squadrons, which stands at around 31 against a sanctioned strength of 42, at a time when rapid modernisation is essential to address regional security challenges.

Ultimately, remaining with the GE F414 engine provides a clear and stable path for the Tejas Mk2 programme. The established partnership with GE not only secures the engine supply but also supports India’s domestic defence industry.

This synergy extends to future projects, as a more powerful variant of the F414 is also being considered for India’s futuristic fifth-generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

This consistency helps streamline development, production, and maintenance for India's next generation of fighter jets.
 
Hundred Percent. We need to drop F414 engine deal. We have been constanly blackmailed after signing deals and US always backstabs on TOT even after paying hefty amounts. I feel better we need to go tith Safran as we alrereay Operate Rafales. We should Fast Track Kaveri engine ASAP and involve Private Partners . We cannot solely depend on PSU for engine development as we have wasted Huge amounts for engine development from last 30 years with No result. I think Its Better that we either go with Russian Idziliye engine or with Safran. The E2000 engine from European union is same case and they will not do any TOT even after signing agreements .. They lift their hands off after receving money Just like France who had offered Rafale source code earlier while signing and Backtracking now and reluctant to share code.. India should learn lessons and i think we are already late in learning lessons.
 
Problem is not with GE-414 it will be made in India if Trump administration Okey's it , Problem is with GE-404 engine we must replace it with M88-4 made in India engine !
 
Not yet. But, if US arm twist now with Tejas, quickly sign the 114 Rafale jet deal with France. Setup a local production of SU-57 on the existing SU30MKI line.
 
If GE is not dependable how can RR and Safran will be for a critical fighter aircraft engine.
They belong to same western NATO group.
Why not Russian RD93MA.
 
Not possible at this belated stage. Tejas Mk 2 is already much behind schedule. Replacing engine at this stage will be majir setback and will require major changes in design and escalate costs . IAF can't afford it.
 
If GE is not dependable how can RR and Safran will be for a critical fighter aircraft engine.
They belong to same western NATO group.
Why not Russian RD93MA.
We are strong enough to wait. Its too late to change engines or redesign planes. Wait for Trump to chuck out our plane. I don't think he will dare. Agreements been signed, loosing India isn't feasible unless they want to commit hara kiri. To us its just putting aside one model of plane. Good experience for a novice. Excellent exposure for a champ.
 
Between the devil and the deep blue sea is the situation. Defence services advice is the key keeping in mind the current geopolitical situation. It is not necessary to drink loads of sea water to understand that it is salty. Jai Hind🙏
 
If GE is not dependable how can RR and Safran will be for a critical fighter aircraft engine.
They belong to same western NATO group.
Why not Russian RD93MA.
RD-33 (aka RD-93) is one of the worst engines for 4th generation aircraft. Well, it is already taken, Pakistani JF-17 use it.

RR can't provide EJ200 technology without the approval of the other members of the EuroJet Turbo GmbH group, which are Germany, Italy and Spain. Safran doesn't have this problem.
 
Last edited:
What if we don’t get a GE engine? Whoever in ADA who designed the Tejas Mk2 based on the GE F414 engine should be fired. The Tejas Mk2 should have been designed to handle at least two different engines. The Rafale initially flew with the GE F404 engine before switching to the M-88. The KA-226 can fly with Pratt & Whitney PW 207K, Rolls Royce Allison 250-C20R/2, and Safran’s Turbomeca Arrius 2G1 engines. The EJ200 is smaller in dimensions compared to the F414 and produces more thrust, but the intake requirements are different. So, with minimal changes to the fuselage design, the EJ200 should theoretically work, but we never know how long ADA will take to redesign, further delaying the Mk2.
 
GE taking advantage after quoting L1 bidder and hiking the deal price by another $500 Mn. Criteria should be changed and not all the time the L1 bidder should be selected. Now at that time, the winner was expected to share ToT; that's how the engine circus for Tejas MK2 has a clause.
 
Nothing India can really do about this, as any EU engine would be subject to US export laws and policy pressures even if GE was not chosen then.
Plus, Russian engines were never good enough, and certainly not for a single engine jet like Tejas and Russia would have been unable to supply newer engines due to sanctions and Russia's long production-related issues.
 
My main concern is AMCA. It's initial design is also based on 414, correct?

Even if we take risk and up the diplomacy and everything, even make concessions on ToT terms.. it's a compromise that will be needed to continue Tejas Mk2, which is a necessity.

But we seriously need to delink AMCA with 414. Even if we don't do it publically by announcing it, we really need to first make an indigineous engine side by side AMCA. But AMCA should evolve with engine, vice versa is harder and hampers true innovation in engine technology.

Remember, i am not talking about what should have been done. Hindsight is always 20/20. But what measures we take now.
 
GE taking advantage after quoting L1 bidder and hiking the deal price by another $500 Mn. Criteria should be changed and not all the time the L1 bidder should be selected. Now at that time, the winner was expected to share ToT; that's how the engine circus for Tejas MK2 has a clause.
L1 is not the first criteria but the absolute last. In the first stage, tender is only sent to countries/companies whom MoD trusts. We never sent any tenders to China, did we? They can be L1 as well.

Then comes the technical requirements. Only products which clear these requirements are shortlisted and the list is sent to MoD (in this case, it was DRDO who did the trials and also chose the final vendor).

Then the cost is considered among those who qualify.

So L1 isn't the issue here. L1 is always the absolute last parameter to be considered.
 
Rafales use the M88 for their initial version and switched to the F414. Anyone who says India can't switch engines is a fool or a foreign agent. In fact, India has openly stated its intent of using 110kN made-in-India engines for the mass production of the Tejas Mk2. This clearly shows that India has plans for engine replacement. The F414 is just a stop-gap.
 
India can opt for EJ 200 Rollce Royce Engine for Tejas Mk 2 and AMCA. Only engine mount need to be modified. India can ask for 100% transfer of technology. The thrust of EJ 200 can be improved to 120KN dry and 190 KN wet with my 5D tech. with 8D tech it can be improved to 500 KN super cruise. RD33 can also replace GE F 414 with 105 KN Dry thrust and 180 KN Wet thrust. Parallel modification is suggested for all LCA Mk 2 and AMCA. For Tejas Mk 1 where fueslage need to be changed instead of Engine Mount but for LCA Mk 2 and AMCA only engine mount to be changed.
 
Last edited:
@SandeepGupta
From past experiance we should learn. None of the Western suppliers are to be trusted. The recent Rafale source code should be an eye opened. We should develop our own engines. As a stop-gap get Russian engines which have lower IR proifile and are more rugged. Also Russia is our only supplier that had sincerely transferred tech. In all our war these colonial Western countries have helped out enemy. It would be foolish to trust them. Jai Hind! Bharatmata ki Jai!!!
 
Hundred Percent. We need to drop F414 engine deal. We have been constanly blackmailed after signing deals and US always backstabs on TOT even after paying hefty amounts. I feel better we need to go tith Safran as we alrereay Operate Rafales. We should Fast Track Kaveri engine ASAP and involve Private Partners . We cannot solely depend on PSU for engine development as we have wasted Huge amounts for engine development from last 30 years with No result. I think Its Better that we either go with Russian Idziliye engine or with Safran. The E2000 engine from European union is same case and they will not do any TOT even after signing agreements .. They lift their hands off after receving money Just like France who had offered Rafale source code earlier while signing and Backtracking now and reluctant to share code.. India should learn lessons and i think we are already late in learning lessons.
You did not read the article. So 100% is misplaced.
 
EJ 200 is an old engine of Eurofighter they will be happy to give 100% ToT along with 14 Squadrons = 252 Both Old and New Eurofighter with Captor AESA deal along with ToT of HARM anti radiation Missile ToT and Pirate IRST ToT deal. Roughly 800-900 Crore ka ek Plane on an average Tranche 3 to Tranche 4 Padega. Rafaele se better and cheap deal.
 
Rafales use the M88 for their initial version and switched to the F414. Anyone who says India can't switch engines is a fool or a foreign agent. In fact, India has openly stated its intent of using 110kN made-in-India engines for the mass production of the Tejas Mk2. This clearly shows that India has plans for engine replacement. The F414 is just a stop-gap.
You're not wrong. We are in a different scenario, we're evolving quicker. Hope our answers to aero engine switches become known sooner rather than later.
 
Better late than never. MK II is already late, let there be some more delay but avoiding US is more sensible. India has to make arrangements for its shortage of squadrons somehow. Go for some Rafaels /some SU 57 on urgent basis as Stop Gap measure. Make changes in MK II design now itself rather than waiting till the last.
 
Better late than never. MK II is already late, let there be some more delay but avoiding US is more sensible. India has to make arrangements for its shortage of squadrons somehow. Go for some Rafaels /some SU 57 on urgent basis as Stop Gap measure. Make changes in MK II design now itself rather than waiting till the last.
We seem to have the Russian knack of using old obsolete equipment in the meantime. I'm sure will pass over this hurdle quickly.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
5,395
Messages
57,687
Members
4,097
Latest member
goyalsupriya1999
Back
Top